Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

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ryanjagtap

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Sep 25, 2021
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The design decision in that case is between increasing density (smaller die, higher power efficiency at lower frequency but earlier hard wall for higher frequency) and increasing frequency (lower density thus moving the hard wall higher, but then requiring a bigger die).

Since Mendocino is being positioned as a budget part from the beginning I'd expect AMD to have picked the former choice. If it were a straight port of Van Gogh it'd have lower density allowing higher frequency similar to the improvement Zen+ offered. But if Mendocino is indeed only ~100mm² I'd expect it to be all new or significantly cut down from Van Gogh which was previously reported to be ~163mm² in size.
Are we sure it's a Van Gogh derivative. It can be a Lucienne derivative as well. Lucienne had a lot of power features added to it.
Anandtech's article on Lucienne
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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Porting or cutting down and porting Van Gogh is the cheapest path forward from an R&D perspective, especially if they were going with DDR5 (Lucienne, Renoir, Cezanne all had DDR4 controllers).
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Makes me wonder... Mendocino might be from Dual to Quad Cores with HT and RDNA2.

Which models do you expect from it?

For me expecting 4 processor models.
- Ryzen 3 - Being Quad Core with HT with RDNA2 with 6 CUs
- Athlon Gold - Being Quad Core without HT with RDNA2 with 4 CUs
- Athlon Silver - Being Dual Core with HT with RDNA2 with 3 CUs
- Athlon Silver - Being Dual Core without HT with RDNA2 with 2 CUs
 
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LightningZ71

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Mar 10, 2017
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I don't think these will be Ryzen branded at all.

Anthony gold, 4/8, biggest iGPU.
Anthony silver 2/4, cut down iGPU.

Maybe a pro SKU for business as well.

(Thank autocorrect for Anthony instead of Athlon, lol)
 
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Insert_Nickname

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May 6, 2012
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I don't think these will be Ryzen branded at all.

Anthony gold, 4/8, biggest iGPU.
Anthony silver 2/4, cut down iGPU.

Maybe a pro SKU for business as well.
Why not resurrect the Duron brand? (Please just don't bring back Sempron. Yuck) These things look like they have lots of value potential too. But that's not happening.

I have some fond memories of my Duron 1200 + K7S5A. Value king combo back in the day.
 

jpiniero

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Oct 1, 2010
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I should add that I don't think it's a given there will be desktop models. At least right away. The leaky stuff could be sold to OEMs for All in Ones.
 

LightningZ71

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Mar 10, 2017
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You have to think the quad core will be Ryzen 3.
No, for the simple reason that contemporary Ryzen products will be 2 full core generations ahead of it. I do concede that they might do a Ryzen 3 4325 model or something similar, but, with different graphics IP and DDR5, that makes less sense.
 

moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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I should add that I don't think it's a given there will be desktop models. At least right away. The leaky stuff could be sold to OEMs for All in Ones.
I bet there will be OEM-only Pro models for desktop again. 😏
 

Zepp

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May 18, 2019
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- Athlon Silver - Being Dual Core without HT with RDNA2 with 2 CUs
While most people would probably agree this type of SKU isn't needed anymore, is there really a case of die harvesting that leaves a chip like this without SMT, or is it purely artificial segmentation?
 

VirtualLarry

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Aug 25, 2001
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While most people would probably agree this type of SKU isn't needed anymore, is there really a case of die harvesting that leaves a chip like this without SMT, or is it purely artificial segmentation?
I feel that it would be purely artificial. I sincerely hope that they don't release a 2C/2T. The 3020e is a 2c/2T, and the 3050e is a 2C/4T. I found myself CPU-bottlenecked fairly often with the 2C/2T, whereas the 2C/4T was smooth most of the time.
 
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Insert_Nickname

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I feel that it would be purely artificial. I sincerely hope that they don't release a 2C/2T. The 3020e is a 2c/2T, and the 3050e is a 2C/4T. I found myself CPU-bottlenecked fairly often with the 2C/2T, whereas the 2C/4T was smooth most of the time.
Yeah, 2C/2T isn't really viable anymore for anything you need to interact with on a regular basis. I think dual cores are on their way out altogether, except for perhaps the extreme budget segment. I mean, I don't really have performance issues on my 200GE-powered HTPC, but it kind of a special case which isn't representative of any setup you'll find in a laptop. You won't find many dual cores with 3600MHz DDR4 memory f.x.

Yup. It's a bit of an oddball off-the-wall system. Why? Because it happens to work. My HTPCs have always been very odd. My first used a Pentium M CPU + Aopen i915GMm-HFS f.x.
 

uzzi38

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Oct 16, 2019
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If it's really 2CU and single channel only... kind of wonder why it isn't even smaller than 100 mm2.
Because there's a bunch of stuff they decided not to scale down. Display and media engines, that sort of thing.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Because there's a bunch of stuff they decided not to scale down. Display and media engines, that sort of thing.
Makes sense, given that Intel doesn't cut there even for the Atoms. Although they also don't cut to single channel either.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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If it's really 2CU and single channel only... kind of wonder why it isn't even smaller than 100 mm2.
It also depends of what we understand for "single/dual channel" it would be better to talk of how many bits instead. With 2 CUs it is likely to be 64 bits "dual channel". Also, it may be 8GB/32bit. 16GB/64 bits.

This looks like AMD answer to ADL-N
 

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