ZDNet article regarding SETI - Now with link to a response from Berkeley

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m0ti

Senior member
Jul 6, 2001
975
0
0
I also signed it!

Haven't crunched Seti for about a year a half, but hey, cheating affects us all!
 

JWMiddleton

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2000
5,686
172
106
:( I've signed it! :(

In the past two months I've slid from 561st place to 578th while putting out about 90 WUs per day. Up until that time I was steadily climbing (slowly), so something has happened. Is it cheating or have many old computers been replaced with newer P4 and AthlonXP technology?
 

Hellburner

Senior Member <br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,214
5
0
There must be some type of mad dash to the finish line thing going on, not only among the top three, but I just perused the "production" numbers of the teams under us. A couple months ago there were no challengers, now there are half a dozen teams cranking out 5 digit daily numbers...
 

Poof

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2000
4,305
0
0
Originally posted by: Hellburner
There must be some type of mad dash to the finish line thing going on, not only among the top three, but I just perused the "production" numbers of the teams under us. A couple months ago there were no challengers, now there are half a dozen teams cranking out 5 digit daily numbers...

That is what is being suspected. Apparently there was a sudden shift right around 10/25.

However, interestingly enough, the last major group of cheaters (and many of us think it's the same ones doing it now), managed to crunch all the way up to 1,000,000 submitted WUs on the dot and then "confessed". It could be that the race to the finish line is not so much a race to the finish line, but an internal race among the cheaters to submit some X number of bogus/re-processed results between themselves.
rolleye.gif


[EDIT: speeling]

 

JWMiddleton

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2000
5,686
172
106
Copied from a : \. post

One of the cheats actually indexes the name of the wu. the name of the wu contains data that locates the data to a chunk of the data tape.

by indexing the same file name over and over to bypass the duplicate checking routines, you are introducing wu's that do not correlate to their proper location in space. Resubmit such a wu thousands of times with the name indexed each time it's sent destroys the baseline of the science database. Copy the same wu to 1,000 other people for submission multiplies the error a million fold. it is very conceivable that there might be whole chunks of wu's results that cannot be scientifically normed to ANY location on the starmap! It does effect the science data.

Now that bit of info really SUX!

 

deerslayer

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
10,153
0
76
Signed it!

I can't believe people stoop this low to submit work units that are not only false but give Berkely false information!!!!!:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,120
507
126
Signed it
Btw guys/girls ,don't forget to add TA to your comments!

I can't believe this Sh*t is still going on:(:|:disgust::Q
 

BadThad

Lifer
Feb 22, 2000
12,093
47
91
Originally posted by: networkman
Well, I can tell you this: Much as I like the SETI project, I will not be continuing with the new incarnation(S@H2 or whatever) if these issues are not seriously addressed.

Cheater accounts should be zeroed, the password changed, and the account names replaced with "I cheated - I'm a loser" :|

Right on Rich!

This, once again, is sickening. This world is full of sick-sons-a-bitches that lie, cheat and steal and it makes me ill. I think all of us can spot the cheaters in this. For the love of God, check out the output by S@N's #1 person:

SETI@work SN

In one day this guy is supposed to crunch 13,000 wu's??? Does somebody want to break this down into real-life terms? ....I know something stinks. Roughly, if you have machines that average 3 wu/day it would take freaking 4333 computers running virtually nothing but SETI 24/7 to get this. :Q All I can say is, "Ya, right buddy!".
 

LastKnight

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
587
0
0
well let's see, i crunch around 300 a day (on a good day)

I've got 25 p4 1.9 ghz, about another 15 p4s that average around 1.7, and likely around 15 ghz worth of athlon tbird and xp power. all of these on full time.
so that's about 90 ghz of power, full time, to produce 300 a day, not to mention all the time I put into it to make sure they stay crunching.

since he produces 43.3 times as many work units as myself, he's got to have around 4000 ghz of pcs lying around crunching seti and doing almost nothing else all day long. Even if they're all fast 2 ghz systems, that's 2000 systems to watch and make sure are all crunching.

plus, that's 4 gigs in seti wu's he's got to download daily to make those numbers.

possible, I suppose so, but not particularly likely. And very easy to check out. I can pass through a port on my firewall and show anyone my work setiqueue at a few minutes notice, and that would squash any ideas I was cheating. I wonder if these others would be willing to do the same.

If he's producing these numbers legitimately, he's helping the project, if not...

oh, and signed!
 

Poof

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2000
4,305
0
0
Well if you add the fact that 10 of their suspicious crunchers outproduced the combined daily output of the top 5 teams (over 65,000 WUs) in a single day, then it makes you wonder even more! :Q
rolleye.gif
And the sad thing is that SETI@NL can't remove these accounts from the team on their own. :(
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
There are posts all over the forums that the Management at SETI are not listening on this. They are, I repeat they are. Dr Anderson Director of SETI told me today he is formulating a response to put on the site.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
There are posts all over the forums that the Management at SETI are not listening on this. They are, I repeat they are. Dr Anderson Director of SETI told me today he is formulating a response to put on the site.

Good to hear.

Thanks, Dave!