Z77 motherboard dilemma for a new PC

[baal80]

Hello everyone.
I've decided it's time to upgrade (well, the upgrade quickly changed to a rebuild) my PC. As a general info, I want a powerful rig mainly for gaming. I'm decided on everything apart from the motherboard... I just can't make up my mind regarding this and after reading half of the internet makes my head spin... so I'm asking you guys as you are the pros.

Here is my setup:

MB1: Asus P8Z77-M PRO Intel Z77 LGA 1155 (3xPCX/VGA/DZW/GLAN/SATA3/USB3/RAID/DDR3/SLI/CROSSFIRE) mATX
MB2: ASRock Z77 EXTREME4
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB, DIMM,1600MHz, DDR3, CL8, XMP,Non-ECC, with Heatsink (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8)
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K, 3.4GHz, 6MB, LGA1155, 22mm, 77W, BOX (BX80637I53570K)
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX670 2048MB DDR5/256bit DVI/HDMI/DP PCI-E (1058/6008) (wer. OC - OverClock) (GV-N670OC-2GD)
PSU: Corsair TX750 V2 80 PLUS Bronze, ATX 750W, EU (CMPSU-750TXV2EU)
SSD : Intel SSDSC2CT120A3K5

Now, some background info about what I want. I'm not a hardcore overclocker, which means that I might OC my CPU a bit. The most I care of is stability - that's why I specifically chose RAM modules that are listed in ASUS P8Z77-M PRO AVL list with specific timings and voltages.

So far, after reading multitude of threads and reviews, here are pros and cons that I see for each of the mobos:
Asus P8Z77-M PRO:
+ it's ASUS! (reputation, quality)
+ has everything I need (example: no PCI slot but I don't have any PCI cards)
+ has FanXpert+ software which looks very useful, other bundled software also looks slick and I like it (doesn't look so bloated as other bundled packages)
+ I've read several good reviews of this board and I have good experience with ASUS products in the past
+ even though it's mATX, I'm fairly sure GPU that I chose will fit in without problems
+ I really like ASUS detailing memory modules and voltages in the manual, from what I've seen it's not the case with other manufacturers (they never list tested voltages and timings so you never really know if the memory will or will not work).
+ about 10% cheaper than ASRock (in my country)

- if I'd like to replace stock CPU fan with something bigger, there might be problems with space (GPU/RAM)
- mATX form factor (but is that really something bad?). Up till now I always had ATX. I don't need mATX, I have ATX case. But is mATX actually inferior to ATX, for example regarding heat circulation inside the case, etc?

ASRock Extreme4:
+ seems to have massive number of positive/enthusiastic reviews and recommendations
+ looks very slick
+ plenty of space for eg. upgrading CPU FAN
+ ATX form factor (is that really a plus?)

- UEFI BIOS looks worse than ASUS one, seems there are less options in general
- no Fan control software like Fan Xpert+
- quality (?, I never owned an ASRock product, not sure about that)
- RAM listed in the manual doesn't specify voltage/timings 'that work' (this is a big gripe for me)
- poor software compared to ASUS
- about 10% more expensive than ASUS (in my country)

So, there it is. Sorry for the wall of text but I wanted to answer some of the potential questions in advance. Thanks for reading and any suggestions!

 

[LoveMachine]

So far, after reading multitude of threads and reviews, here are pros and cons that I see for each of the mobos:
Asus P8Z77-M PRO:
+ it's ASUS! (reputation, quality)

I bought an Asus P8Z77-V 2 months ago thinking along this line. I thought even if there was a problem, Asus would be more responsive. I had a memory channel go bad and started an RMA request. Over one month later, and multiple phone calls with same the same canned response each time of "you will hear from us within 48 hours" without hearing from them at all a week later. Just now I've finally heard back from them regarding a new board, over a month after starting the process.

Now, all of this is not to say that you shouldn't buy Asus. ALL manufacturers have failures, and almost all of them have shoddy customer service. That's part of why electronics are so cheap relative to the ol' days. But DO NOT buy Asus thinking you are getting better quality/service. If the board is cheaper where you are, and it has the features you want, then absolutely go for it. But brand perception doesn't always jive with reality. Aside from the memory controller issue and customer service failures, the board has otherwise been great, with reasonably good apps (including fan controller, etc).

My 2 bits. I feel better now that I've vented.

 

[coffeejunkee]

I have the Asus P8Z77-M Pro. I'm fairly satisfied with it, it's stable and clocks decently. I combined it with this memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231477 and the cooler I use is a Thermalright HR-02.

On clearance: with a big cooler the heatspreader on the ram in the first slot blocks the fan. Luckily you can choose to use either slots 1 & 3 or 2 & 4, but it will be an issue with 4 dimms. Depending on the cooler and ram it might be possible to move the fan upwards slightly and make it rest on the ram. To prevent this from being an issue at all get the low profile Vengeance (or the Samsung wonder ram).

The first pci-e slot is not blocked, but the videocard does sit very close to the cooler and it does increase temps on the cpu a little bit. This is just a general mATX issue which is not a real problem unless you seek max overclock. Alternatively you can use the second pci-e slot, it's x8 but that's still plenty for most cards (and especially pci-e 3.0 cards).

About fancontrol, this is where the board lacks. The problem is you can't set a lower speed than 60% for the casefans in bios or FanXpert+. Why this silly limit was implemented is beyond me but it's there anyway. There is some relief though in the form of FanXpert 2. This new version is not officially supported but it works anyway. You just have to get it from the download section of one of the boards it's bundled with (like P8Z77-Pro).

It's not perfect either though, this time you're limited to the maximum startup voltage of your fans (even though they might be able to run at lower speeds after they spun up). Also, I have to manually reload the profile on every reboot (which I read was a problem too with the officially supported boards).

Having said this, FanXpert 2 is probably statisfactory for most people. I'm very picky about sound though and it was a bit of a letdown after reading so much about how great this Fanxpert software is and how you can make your own profiles etc etc but something fundamental like silly limits doesn't get mentioned. So if you're serious about silence it's probably best to buy some low rpm fans as well.

 

[baal80]

Thanks a lot for both replies. After reading them I have decided to go with P8Z77-V. Like I said - I don't need mATX (I don't plan to build a mATX computer) and after reading coffeejunkie's reply I realised that I don't want to think about whether in the future I might run into problems with bigger CPU fan or when adding more RAM sticks - which is an option as this PC is built to last around 3 years without changing parts like mobo/CPU/GPU.

I'll go with the safe route - even though it's a bit more pricey (~30 USD) it will allow me to sleep without worrying too much

 

[Carson Dyle]

I also have the ASUS P8Z77-M PRO. I just set it up a couple of days ago, so I'm still getting a feel for it. So far, it's been great. I have 2 x 8GB sticks of G.SKILL Ares memory installed. The Ares heat spreaders are a bit shorter than those on the G.SKILL Ripjaws series.

Large CPU cooler clearance can be an issue. One with a 120mm fan, oriented with the fan parallel to the memory slots, will just clear the first PCIe x16 slot. I installed a Scythe Mugen 3, which is 130mm wide (the heatsink cooling fins are a little wider than the fan itself) and there's maybe 3/8" to spare. I don't think a cooler with a 140mm fan would work at all if you want to install a GPU in the first slot. Clearance with memory is fine with the Mugen and the Ares memory. With the way the Mugen mounts its fan, the retaining clips can be slid up the tower a little, giving some extra memory clearance.

I haven't had many issues with the Fan Xpert+ software. I suppose the percentage fan speed limits are somewhat arbitrary, but they'd only be a problem (for me) if I were using 3000 RPM fans. I have the board installed in a Fractal Design Define Mini quiet case and I'm currently running the two supplied FD fans in the front of the case at 100%/1300 RPM.

 

[2is]

You can also get the V pro instead of the M pro If you want full ATX

 

[birthdaymonkey]

I just got an Extreme4 and can't recommend it. It emits a faint but audible high-frequency noise from the CPU power regulator region. I RMA'd the board and the replacement does the same thing. I should have stuck with Asus, but I was swayed by all the positive buzz around the ASRock. Now I'll have to see if I can return it without paying too much in shipping and restocking fees; I can't stand the noise.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Thanks a lot for both replies. After reading them I have decided to go with P8Z77-V. Like I said - I don't need mATX (I don't plan to build a mATX computer) and after reading coffeejunkie's reply I realised that I don't want to think about whether in the future I might run into problems with bigger CPU fan or when adding more RAM sticks - which is an option as this PC is built to last around 3 years without changing parts like mobo/CPU/GPU.

I'll go with the safe route - even though it's a bit more pricey (~30 USD) it will allow me to sleep without worrying too much

You'll run into issues with a big cpu cooler and ram with tall heatsinks on any board. Ram slots are in the same place on both ATX and mATX boards. Get either low profile ram or a closed loop liquid cooling system.

The question is also more do you need ATX? If you stick to a single vidcard mATX is fine.

@ Carson Dyle: 140mm fan cpu cooler fits, albeit just. I think cooler manufacturers actually take the slot positions into consideration when designing their coolers (at least the good ones do). And like I said I'm picky about sound. I wouldn't last 10 minutes sitting next to 1300rpm fans.

Edit: the latest version of Speedfan (4.47 beta 4) offers full fanspeed control on the P8Z77-M Pro. All hail Alfredo and bye bye AI Suite. I can now recommend this board without any reservations.

 

[baal80]

Edit: the latest version of Speedfan (4.47 beta 4) offers full fanspeed control on the P8Z77-M Pro. All hail Alfredo and bye bye AI Suite. I can now recommend this board without any reservations.

Are you saying you are able to control all fans' speeds with Speedfan?

 

[coffeejunkee]

Yes, all fans and all of them from 0% to 100%.

Also, about your worries about ram being incompatible...that's actually becoming a problem from the past. Basically any ram that has an xmp profile and operates at 1.5V or less will work in any Z77 motherboard.

 

[2is]

Speed fan is pretty cool though IMO simply setting a fan profile in the bios is satisfactory without the need for software control.

 

[baal80]

OK, I'm still on the fence - I need to order parts in around 2 weeks time so they are shipped around 20th August.

Right now I'm deciding among the following boards:
- Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H (I don't really like VIA sound and USB controllers though)
- Asrock Extreme 4 (shorter warranty and seems to get quite hot when OC)
- ASUS P8Z77-V (has WiFi which I don't really need, pricey)
- ASUS P8Z77-M PRO (this one currently looks like the sweet spot... and it's 33% cheaper than -V)

 

[coffeejunkee]

Speed fan is pretty cool though IMO simply setting a fan profile in the bios is satisfactory without the need for software control.

Well, like I said, bios won't let you set fanspeed to less than 60% on the P8Z77-M Pro (and I assume all other Asus boards since they use same uefi). Maybe I have remarkable hearing (don't think so) but for me that made sitting next to my pc unbearable. And I'm using fairly regular 1200rpm fans, I don't want to know how it sounds with fex. 1850rpm fans. FanXpert 2 wasn't too bad though, but Speedfan is still better.

OK, I'm still on the fence - I need to order parts in around 2 weeks time so they are shipped around 20th August.

Right now I'm deciding among the following boards:
- Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H (I don't really like VIA sound and USB controllers though)
- Asrock Extreme 4 (shorter warranty and seems to get quite hot when OC)
- ASUS P8Z77-V (has WiFi which I don't really need, pricey)
- ASUS P8Z77-M PRO (this one currently looks like the sweet spot... and it's 33% cheaper than -V)

These are the boards I think most people try to choose between, and indeed it's not that easy since they're all decent. But for basically the same reasons you state I went with the Asus mATX board.

 

[2is]

I must have extremely poor hearing then... At idle, the loudest fan in my computer is my PSU fan which I only hear if I listen for it. I'd still recommnd people use bios first. If that's not adequate enough, then look to a software solution.

 

[coffeejunkee]

In that case you either have a very loud psu or very low rpm casefans. Or the P8Z77-V Pro has a different bios fanprofile than the P8Z77-M Pro. Can you check if you can go below 60% speed in bios and at what rpm your fans are actually spinning?