Yvonne and Balmer go at it:D

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Mother's ire puts Ballmer on defense over Vista
Patrick Thibodeau

Click here to find out more!

October 10, 2007 (Computerworld) ORLANDO -- For a few minutes during Microsoft Corp. CEO Steve Ballmer's appearance at the Gartner Inc. Symposium ITxpo conference here, emotionless management-speak gave way to a mother's frustration with the Vista operating system.

"I'm one of those early adopters of Vista," said Yvonne Genovese, an analyst who was interviewing Ballmer along with fellow analyst David Smith on stage at a conference forum. "My daughter comes in one day and says, 'Hey Mom, my friend has Vista, and it has these neat little things called gadgets -- I need those.'"

Said Ballmer: "I love your daughter."

"You're not going to like her mom in about two minutes," said Genovese, while the crowd laughed.

She went on to explain that she installed Vista for her daughter -- and two days later went right back to using the XP operating system. "It's safe, it works, all the hardware is fine, and everything is great," she said of XP.

Genovese also argued that her experience with Vista is broadly shared: "What we're seeing and what we're hearing from users is a very similar thing. It's difficult to implement. What should we be seeing that we're not seeing?"

"Let's start with the end user. Your daughter saw a lot of value," said Ballmer.

"She's 13," Genovese shot back.

Ballmer was good-natured about the critique as he defended the operating system. "Users appreciate the value that we put into Vista," he said. But, as with earlier operating system releases, "there is always a tension between the value that end users see -- and frankly, that software developers see -- and the value that we can deliver to IT."

One of the top requirements from IT customers was for "the most secure release of Windows you can humanly make," said Ballmer. "We have had better security, we have had fewer vulnerabilities, fewer issues with Windows Vista in its first six months than any OS that preceded it.

"I think there is a lot of value in Vista," he said. Ballmer went on to argue that the real issue for some customers is ensuring that everything they need to support the operating system -- such as device drivers -- is ready before they make the transition to Vista.

"When we initially shipped, fewer device drivers were ready for Vista than I would have liked, but we constantly worked with the device vendors to get new drivers available and implemented through our Windows update service," he said. And because of the changes made to the operating system to improve security, there were things some applications that vendors needed to update as well, according to Ballmer.

He then listed a number of a number of corporations that have installed Vista, including Citibank and Continental Airlines Inc. "We are in, from ... a corporate and enterprise side, an early adoption cycle," said Ballmer.

Service Pack 1 is in beta "and addresses a lot of the customer feedback," said Ballmer. Moreover, because of the "instrumentation" built into Vista, Microsoft knows what problems people are facing, what drivers are missing and what application compatibility problems they are having, he said.

Ballmer also said that Vista is bigger than XP, and "for some people that's an issue, and it's not going to get smaller in any significant way in SP1. But machines are constantly getting bigger, and [it's] probably important to remember that as well."

"Good, I'll let you come in and install it for me," said Genovese.

How did the back-and-forth between Ballmer and Genovese play for the audience? One person at the conference, Alvin Naterpaul, a process management engineer at Baptist Health Care in Miami, said he liked the fact Genovese was "challenging him, so we are getting both sides of it."

http://www.computerworld.com/a...9041959&intsrc=hm_list



cute.


obligatory slashdot comment:

funeral's Saturday: The mom's body was later found floating in a river. The cause of death: chair-related injuries.

:p
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Did Balmer have sweaty armpits and scream at the top of his lungs at the mother while jumping up and down like a mad man?
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,368
3,444
126
So.....what problems was she facing? Driver issues? So she didn't check to see that it would work with her computer before upgrading or what?
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Vista gets a really bad reputation, but MS has some outstanding additions to their whole vision for the next 5+ years. The non-developer community doesn't get a chance to see most of this, and the obvious deficiencies in Vista's current release (I agree with most of them) will leave an almost Windows ME'esque reputation for it, imo.

In my experience, MS tends to be on either side of the extreme: Either they provide something that's not sufficiently accommodating, or they create a magnum opus of sorts that attempts to be the panacea for everyone. In the past, the sweep would prove too broad and it would fail only to be repackaged in later releases of something else. Vista, .NET, the Team System, Software Factories, etc. all fall into this at the moment. It's so comprehensive, so broad and so large that it will take a few years before we can figure out how to truly implement it.

Damn, I really went on a tangent with that one.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
that is stupid, she doesn't even say what problems she had

Ballmer should have thrown a brick at her

I:heart: Vista
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: Descartes
Vista gets a really bad reputation, but MS has some outstanding additions to their whole vision for the next 5+ years. The non-developer community doesn't get a chance to see most of this, and the obvious deficiencies in Vista's current release (I agree with most of them) will leave an almost Windows ME'esque reputation for it, imo.

In my experience, MS tends to be on either side of the extreme: Either they provide something that's not sufficiently accommodating, or they create a magnum opus of sorts that attempts to be the panacea for everyone. In the past, the sweep would prove too broad and it would fail only to be repackaged in later releases of something else. Vista, .NET, the Team System, Software Factories, etc. all fall into this at the moment. It's so comprehensive, so broad and so large that it will take a few years before we can figure out how to truly implement it.

Damn, I really went on a tangent with that one.

stock holders customers care about now now.

desktop customers care about now now.

it customers care about now now and also about then.

developers, developers, developers.....what's the point of developing if you aren't getting paid for due to a lack of a customer base?


I'm just saying that I too agree that they have some cool stuff..but it's still "cool stuff" that they are trying to shove into production.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: FoBoT
that is stupid, she doesn't even say what problems she had

Ballmer should have thrown a brick at her

I:heart: Vista

Just iamgine if he threw a chair.

that would have been AWESOME, and it would've been her fault
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,429
0
0
I don't have any problem with Vista other than driver support but there aren't any problems with XP that I can see. So then, why wouldn't they make sure driver support was better before they released vista? Is microsoft having a down year? If your current product was universally the best and most-used wouldn't you make sure your next one was kick ass before you released it? Just my opinion.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Originally posted by: Descartes
Vista gets a really bad reputation, but MS has some outstanding additions to their whole vision for the next 5+ years. The non-developer community doesn't get a chance to see most of this, and the obvious deficiencies in Vista's current release (I agree with most of them) will leave an almost Windows ME'esque reputation for it, imo.

In my experience, MS tends to be on either side of the extreme: Either they provide something that's not sufficiently accommodating, or they create a magnum opus of sorts that attempts to be the panacea for everyone. In the past, the sweep would prove too broad and it would fail only to be repackaged in later releases of something else. Vista, .NET, the Team System, Software Factories, etc. all fall into this at the moment. It's so comprehensive, so broad and so large that it will take a few years before we can figure out how to truly implement it.

Damn, I really went on a tangent with that one.

stock holders customers care about now now.

desktop customers care about now now.

it customers care about now now and also about then.

developers, developers, developers.....what's the point of developing if you aren't getting paid for due to a lack of a customer base?


I'm just saying that I too agree that they have some cool stuff..but it's still "cool stuff" that they are trying to shove into production.

I'm not sure I'd say IT/developers are entirely pleased, either. The list of announced features to be included with Vista was much greater than what actually shipped. WinFS, Monad and PC-PC Synch, just to name a few.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: TheTony
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Originally posted by: Descartes
Vista gets a really bad reputation, but MS has some outstanding additions to their whole vision for the next 5+ years. The non-developer community doesn't get a chance to see most of this, and the obvious deficiencies in Vista's current release (I agree with most of them) will leave an almost Windows ME'esque reputation for it, imo.

In my experience, MS tends to be on either side of the extreme: Either they provide something that's not sufficiently accommodating, or they create a magnum opus of sorts that attempts to be the panacea for everyone. In the past, the sweep would prove too broad and it would fail only to be repackaged in later releases of something else. Vista, .NET, the Team System, Software Factories, etc. all fall into this at the moment. It's so comprehensive, so broad and so large that it will take a few years before we can figure out how to truly implement it.

Damn, I really went on a tangent with that one.

stock holders customers care about now now.

desktop customers care about now now.

it customers care about now now and also about then.

developers, developers, developers.....what's the point of developing if you aren't getting paid for due to a lack of a customer base?


I'm just saying that I too agree that they have some cool stuff..but it's still "cool stuff" that they are trying to shove into production.

I'm not sure I'd say IT/developers are entirely pleased, either. The list of announced features to be included with Vista was much greater than what actually shipped. WinFS, Monad and PC-PC Synch, just to name a few.

and what about virtualization in longhorn. some people need that yesterday and they are going to wait. I understand the adoption curve, but vmware has been out for ages, xen is pretty hefty now as is virtualiron etc. sure the market is growing like crazy, but jsut think about it:

v111.314234.2345235 of vmware ESX or version 1.0001 from MS?


P.S.you guys probably have way more experience than I have in this area. the thing is even at my level I can't help but ask these questions.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: TheTony
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Originally posted by: Descartes
Vista gets a really bad reputation, but MS has some outstanding additions to their whole vision for the next 5+ years. The non-developer community doesn't get a chance to see most of this, and the obvious deficiencies in Vista's current release (I agree with most of them) will leave an almost Windows ME'esque reputation for it, imo.

In my experience, MS tends to be on either side of the extreme: Either they provide something that's not sufficiently accommodating, or they create a magnum opus of sorts that attempts to be the panacea for everyone. In the past, the sweep would prove too broad and it would fail only to be repackaged in later releases of something else. Vista, .NET, the Team System, Software Factories, etc. all fall into this at the moment. It's so comprehensive, so broad and so large that it will take a few years before we can figure out how to truly implement it.

Damn, I really went on a tangent with that one.

stock holders customers care about now now.

desktop customers care about now now.

it customers care about now now and also about then.

developers, developers, developers.....what's the point of developing if you aren't getting paid for due to a lack of a customer base?


I'm just saying that I too agree that they have some cool stuff..but it's still "cool stuff" that they are trying to shove into production.

I'm not sure I'd say IT/developers are entirely pleased, either. The list of announced features to be included with Vista was much greater than what actually shipped. WinFS, Monad and PC-PC Synch, just to name a few.

Right, but Vista doesn't really matter. For developers, it's things like WCF, WPF, enhancements to SQL Server, IIS/ASP.NET and the .NET Framework itself that really matter.

I can't speak much for the infrastructure side.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: Descartes


Right, but Vista doesn't really matter. For developers, it's things like WCF, WPF, enhancements to SQL Server, IIS/ASP.NET and the .NET Framework itself that really matter.

ah.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Weak as fuck. This is news?
Yeah I thought it was gonna be about Balmer tearing off his shirt and swearing at the woman, dropping f-bombs the whole time and swigging out of a bottle of Jack Daniels.

What a letdown.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Originally posted by: Descartes
Right, but Vista doesn't really matter. For developers, it's things like WCF, WPF, enhancements to SQL Server, IIS/ASP.NET and the .NET Framework itself that really matter.

I can't speak much for the infrastructure side.

At the launch event I went to, they made it sound like most of those features (except the IIS ones) are eventually coming to XP as well. Though there were many unanswered questions from the audience on that.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: Descartes
Right, but Vista doesn't really matter. For developers, it's things like WCF, WPF, enhancements to SQL Server, IIS/ASP.NET and the .NET Framework itself that really matter.

I can't speak much for the infrastructure side.

At the launch event I went to, they made it sound like most of those features (except the IIS ones) are eventually coming to XP as well. Though there were many unanswered questions from the audience on that.

Yeah, I can't help but thinking many of those were things that would've come to fruition with or without Vista. Descartes is right though - the things I mentioned are probably more infrastructure/API-ish. Developer-relevant but probably not near as much as some of the tools he noted.