Your tax dollars were (are) used to keep the Chinese rich and happy.

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
While many of us rightly so were pissed about the bailouts the fact is it had little to do with actually saving any company in question and a lot to do with keeping foreign investment confident.

And now the game is up. It seems the whole charade is over and its down to the brass tacks of the matter.

Article

China and the United States sparred on Friday over how to handle an economic crisis that has forced central banks around the globe into a series of dramatic interest rate cuts.

Figures due on Friday were expected to show the sharpest U.S. job losses in 26 years, underling the severity of a downturn caused by the worst financial crisis since the 1930s.

Sharp labour market weakness would add urgency to a bid by executives of the cash-starved U.S. auto industry who are in Washington pleading for a bailout.

In a sign of the problems facing the industry, Japanese carmaker Honda Motor pulled out of Formula One motor racing, unwilling to bankroll a team with an estimated annual budget of $500 million.

With many developed countries either in recession or heading that way, central banks have cut interest rates close to the bone and attention is now starting to focus on what happens if they get to zero.

Against the bleak economic backdrop, signs of tension marked two days of talks between the United States and China.

The Americans fretted that China might be losing the stomach to let its currency keep rising in value and China voiced concern about Washington's management of the world's largest economy -- in which China has a huge financial stake.

US. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson described the talks as "robust" and characterised by "straightforward back-and-forth" exchanges.

Assistant Chinese Finance Minister Zhu Guangyao, asked whether Beijing would keep buying U.S. debt, responded by urging Washington act to protect China's financial interests.

"We hope the U.S. side will seriously consider the Chinese side's concern and protect the interests of Chinese investors," Zhu told a news conference.


 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
We are intimately interlinked with China's success and failure (though China much more so than us). Not sure what is wrong with the U.S. looking out for an ally financially.

And you can't be too "rich" of a country (except at the very top) when your per capita GDP is $2500, which is 18 times less ours.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
If the US is hurt, China is hurt. If China is hurt, the US is hurt. The US has bought tons of US debt, and the US absolutely loves its debt, so why piss off China?
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
If the US is hurt, China is hurt. If China is hurt, the US is hurt. The US has bought tons of US debt, and the US absolutely loves its debt, so why piss off China?

Theres a big difference between basing your decisions on whats best for your country and its citizens and basing your decisions on whats best for your allies and its citizens.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Skoorb
If the US is hurt, China is hurt. If China is hurt, the US is hurt. The US has bought tons of US debt, and the US absolutely loves its debt, so why piss off China?

Theres a big difference between basing your decisions on whats best for your country and its citizens and basing your decisions on whats best for your allies and its citizens.
Big difference, but not always a clear one ;)

 

ohnoes

Senior member
Oct 11, 2007
269
0
0
U.S.'s 'best' interests include China. What would happen if both U.S. and China took independent policies that did not take into consideration the interests of their key trading partner? They'd both be shooting themselves in the foot.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: ohnoes
U.S.'s 'best' interests include China. What would happen if both U.S. and China took independent policies that did not take into consideration the interests of their key trading partner? They'd both be shooting themselves in the foot.

China has more to lose. US can just move to the next 3rd world country to manufacture cheaply. However, China does not have an alternative to the US.
 

ohnoes

Senior member
Oct 11, 2007
269
0
0
Except that China holds a crapload of U.S. tbills, and very few other countries have the bankroll to support the U.S. habit. So no, China doesn't have more to lose.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: ohnoes
Except that China holds a crapload of U.S. tbills, and very few other countries have the bankroll to support the U.S. habit. So no, China doesn't have more to lose.

Except China has zero motivation to dump U.S. T-bills all at once, so your assertion is moot. They're concerned about maintaining social order, and continuing to expand their middle class is crucial to keeping that order. Dumping T-bills all at once is lunacy of the highest order. Over time? That's perfectly reasonable of course.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: ohnoes
Except that China holds a crapload of U.S. tbills, and very few other countries have the bankroll to support the U.S. habit. So no, China doesn't have more to lose.

China can choose to dump treasuries at the open market and cause short term shock and chaos, but the market will pick itself up. The major party that would suffer would be China, because they no doubt would have had to sell the assets at fire sale discount prices to find buyers.

So yes, China has everything to lose.
 

ohnoes

Senior member
Oct 11, 2007
269
0
0
I never said China would dump U.S. tbills. The point was that China has the lowcost infrastructure & capital to support the U.S., which isn't readily available elsewhere.

And also, the likelihood of U.S. pulling all mfg out of China is just as likely as China dumping all the tbills at once. Not to mention the chaos b/t U.S. & China wouldn't be any better or worse if either of those scenarios happened, although China is the one sitting on trillions of reserves.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
Originally posted by: JS80

China has more to lose. US can just move to the next 3rd world country to manufacture cheaply.

If this is the case, why isn't US doing it now?

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,756
14,172
146
America and Americans should worry about the American economy first. If China or some other country's economy happens to benefit from measures the US takes to improve its economy, fine, but if not...fuck em.

Want to see the American economy do better? Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: BoomerD
America and Americans should worry about the American economy first. If China or some other country's economy happens to benefit from measures the US takes to improve its economy, fine, but if not...fuck em.

Want to see the American economy do better? Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation.

What products made in the USA by American workers?

We sent just about all manufacturing to China via the giant Corporations that own the US government.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
"Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation."

Frickin everything is from China. I wonder if a person could even feed themselves if they ONLY bought products made in the USA with USA parts and only from people who used tools made in the USA from USA parts forced from metal mined in the USA and R&D only in the USA, etc. I will stop now.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Skoorb
"Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation."

Frickin everything is from China.

But that's the way you wanted it supporting your Hero Bush.

What is wrong with you?
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
SO many things wrong with this article and the OP's take. It's not even worth bothering with. I don't know why I even bothered to type this.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Skoorb
"Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation."

Frickin everything is from China.

But that's the way you wanted it supporting your Hero Bush.

What is wrong with you?

I think a smarter question is what ISN'T wrong with him.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
For starters, nobody really knows how deeply the Chinese are involved in the derivatives market. The other factor is that they own a lot of US treasuries, and are being asked to buy even more, even as the US is asking them to devalue such purchases by letting the value of the reminbi rise. Yield on current US treasuries is non-existent, so we're essentially asking them to lose money to keep us afloat. Yeh, sure, if our decline threatens them, then they will, by necessity, prop us up, but expecting them to gleefully accept losing value in the proposition isn't straight thinking, at all.

They're rightfully not too keen on being held hostage by the huge number of dollars they accepted in good faith... who would be? If it looks like we aren't holding up the value of those dollars, then they'll dump 'em, take what they can get. Hell, if they wanted to screw us over, they'd short the living bejesus out of the dollar, then dump their supply, drive the value thru the floor and their gains thru the roof...

Shee-it, Sherlock- Currency traders make the wolves of Wall St look like a bunch of milquetoasts...

It's what can happen when you lose control of your own currency thru chronic balance of trade deficits and huge govt deficits used to bring them back home....
 

tfcmasta97

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2004
2,003
0
0
lmao. Clearly the concept of an open economy is too complicated for OP to understand, so why bother with his dumb ass?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: BoomerD
America and Americans should worry about the American economy first. If China or some other country's economy happens to benefit from measures the US takes to improve its economy, fine, but if not...fuck em.

Want to see the American economy do better? Buy products made in the USA by American workers, not crap made in some 3rd world nation.

What products made in the USA by American workers?

We sent just about all manufacturing to China via the giant Corporations that own the US government.
Here is a link to just a few thousand products, DaveYou need to get out more.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: JS80
Since when are the chinamen "rich"?

You been to China in last 15-20 years? Makes L.A. look like Tijuana.