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Your right to resell products you own (Iphones, electronics, ...) in jepordy.

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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,282
502
126
I don't see how there could possibly be a legal basis for the copyright holder having any control over reselling products. After all, the whole idea is that they have a COPY right and reselling something doesn't involve making a copy. If they really do have control over a copy after you purchase it, basically they'd end up with a completely new right.

You mean those pesky copyright owners that continually get their bought and payed for congress to keep extending the length of copyrights,

Those copyright owners that in the 90's tried to ban the resale of used Cd's without their consent( piece of the sale),

Those same copyright holders that use the excuse of piracy to further erode your rights by passing more draconian laws just like those that use terrorism to take away your rights.

All they have to do is make you sign a Eula before activation or sale of the product waiving your ownership rights, just ask those farmers that bought seed from Monsanto.

I hope this comes to pass, because it might be the wakeup call for Americans who care more about Jersey Shore and other types of mindless entertainment instead of little things like their continuously eroding rights.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,265
3
76
The appeals court said that was only true if it was manufactured in the U.S. The appeals court said copyright law says gives them lifetime resale control over all products made outside of the U.S.
What difference does it make if ti was made in the US, or overseas? That's retarded.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I don't see how there could possibly be a legal basis for the copyright holder having any control over reselling products. After all, the whole idea is that they have a COPY right and reselling something doesn't involve making a copy. If they really do have control over a copy after you purchase it, basically they'd end up with a completely new right.
It already happens with certain digital media, like Steam games.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,566
1,524
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Apple wouldn't gain, they would be hurt.
People don't buy new apple stuff unless they can resale their old and recoup a little.
If people can not resale the old, fewer will buy the new.
I actually believe the killing off of napster hurt legitimate music CD sales.
Napster and napster search exposed one to new music never known before.
I discovered many artist I had never known of thru napster, and ran out to buy the CD, for the best quality.
This all comes down to copyright. Usually shooting themselves in the foot.
If I buy a new iPhone for $400+ and sale my old for $200+, that to me is fair trade-up.
I would never run out and spend $400+ for a new phone, if I could not sell my old.
It wouldn't be worth it, considering how often new items are released.

And what about the automobile?
If you own a KIA, you couldn't trade it in on something new? Or sale it private party?
Resale is half the motivation on buying new. Cars or phones.
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
199
101
Non-issue, will never go through.
I'd say that if it was some idiot judge in some one stoplight town somewhere, but this is a ruling from an appellate federal district court, and now it's going to the scotus. Insanity.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
126
This meme needs to die. American manufacturing is still larger than China's entire economy.
Dollar wise...sure, especially since China has a suppressed currency. Quantity of items? Don't think the US makes anywhere near what China does, especially in day to day items (excluding food manufacturing which the US provides much of for itself).

Big ticket items such as cars, planes, etc. Sure. Electronics: US = zero in that department for all intents and purposes.

Edit: China may have passed us by now even in dollar amount:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_country_has_the_largest_manufacturing_industry_in_the_world

According to the latest United Nations Statistics data (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnllist.asp) the United States is the largest manufacturing nation, with an output of approximately $1.83 Trillion. This is followed by China at $1.79T, with these two nations far outstripping any other nations (Japan $1.05T, Germany $767B and Italy $381B). The rate of growth in manufacturing in China far outstrips that of the US, with its manufacturing industry growing more than an order of magnitude in the last two decades, during which the US has not even doubled its output.
Edit 2: US loses manufacturing crown to China in 2010:

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1021835.shtml
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
This would also effect thousands of small businesses that resell copyrighted material and products.
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,204
3
81
This would mostly affect media wouldn't it?

Your grandma's antique jewels definitely would not have a copyright, nor would any furniture or electronics.

You can't "copyright" hard goods. That area is reserved for patents and trademarks. You can patent physically functionality and technology and trademark styles.

I think maybe they should make the distinction they are trying to make is mass importing/reselling of things COPYRIGHTED in other countries. Like mass importing international edition books and selling them at a fraction of the price.

Or remember those links to European edition blu-rays that were like half the cost? Imagine someone mass importing those and selling them. When really they were never intended by the copyright holder to be for sale in this market, and they are undercutting the price of their other products they did intend to sell in this market.

I think there is some worth in this case, it seems like it could massively impact some stores like Gamestop and eBay if the implementation of this kind of a rule was borked though

Really seems like whoever wrote this article has no understanding of IP law (not that I have much):
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

"What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed."

Honestly now that I'm thinking about it though shouldn't most of this just fall on customs? Isn't it their job to make sure some jerk isn't mass importing foreign stuff for resale in the first place?
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
26,704
12,036
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Doesn't this case redefine the definition of "own". This would mean you never really ever own anything only rent.

Does this mean home owners will never be able to sell their houses w/o builders permission and/or piece of the action?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,876
5,228
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IF, (and I think it's doubtful) the USSC upholds this, could this mean manufacturing will come back to the US of A?
Why would people continue to buy goods made in a foreign country if they couldn't resell them? That might be incentive for manufacturers to move at least part of their manufacturing plants back to the US of A. (maybe the bulk would continued to be built in China, but the final assembly done here)
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
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Can someone explain what legal difference it would make as to the country the product was made in? What is the argument that it is it our right to resell our own property if its made in America but not if it is made abroad?
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
IF, (and I think it's doubtful) the USSC upholds this, could this mean manufacturing will come back to the US of A?
Why would people continue to buy goods made in a foreign country if they couldn't resell them? That might be incentive for manufacturers to move at least part of their manufacturing plants back to the US of A. (maybe the bulk would continued to be built in China, but the final assembly done here)
That's certainly an interesting way to look at it.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,146
9
81
This would also effect thousands of small businesses that resell copyrighted material and products.
yeah. It has major issues if passed. Garage sales and ebay would be against the law.

This may not pass now but it will...i gurentee it.


edit: i was thinking on this. if they pass this it would give total rights to the foreign manufacture. to the point where we don't "own" the item but a lease. So what would stop say Sony from cause EVERY PS3 to be bricked with a update when the PS4 comes out? or nintendo or such?

To say the lease expired and such we if we want to continue with the product we need to pay more for more time?

seems that such tactics would be legal.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,354
8
0
Imagine if a business couldn't sell thier product because a component in it was made overseas and the copyright owner would permit them.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,911
173
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IF, (and I think it's doubtful) the USSC upholds this, could this mean manufacturing will come back to the US of A?
Why would people continue to buy goods made in a foreign country if they couldn't resell them? That might be incentive for manufacturers to move at least part of their manufacturing plants back to the US of A. (maybe the bulk would continued to be built in China, but the final assembly done here)
Exactly what I'm thinking.

IF this passed, and I personally doubt it, it would kill foreign made products.

Fern
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,376
0
0
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1

Wow, really hope the supreme court reverses this bad decision. Can you imagine not being able to resell your old ipad or iphone. Not having the right to resell family heirlooms. You wouldn't be able to resell used textbooks, and other things too.
You do know drugs are illegal. People still sell them . This law would be great at creating say another 500.000 gooberment jobs to enforce the law. Your neighbor sping on you and all. But whats rights have to do withit this. Its about jobs world wide it would take 5 6 million people to enforce. Screw freedom create more of a police state Ya . I see their plan is working to profection.

Phone company 3 days ago Friday called and asked how many computers I had at home . I told them it was none of their business . They threatened to take me off DSL I said go ahead . The only thing you need o know is I have one PC hooked up to there line . No other computer is hooked to that line . Which is true I have 3 lines one is sat. and one cable and one dsl. Sat is for Shop pc . The Cable is hooked to my server. NO laptops use the DSL line.. I hope they unhook me . I want so much to sue their asses.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,282
502
126
Imagine if a business couldn't sell thier product because a component in it was made overseas and the copyright owner would permit them.
That's what killed the SAAB deal, General Motors refused on the grounds of IP

On October, on the brink of liquidation, Saab Automobile AB agreed to sell itself to two Chinese companies for about $140 million in exchange for $600 million in funding to keep the company afloat.But the deal was blocked the following month by its former parent, GM, which provided key technology to Saab. GM refused to go along with the move, citing intellectual property concerns.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,076
187
106
This sounds like something Apple would go to court over. Apple sucks and (oh) a big fuck you too Steve Jobs...
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,418
305
126
This article seems a bit sensationalized.

I would think this would mostly kill grey market goods if anything. Doesn't really make any sense to try to apply this to US sold items.
 
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