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Your Property Taxes Pays for the Fire Dept. Maybe, maybe, maybe

BarkingGhostar

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
OK, so this is interesting, at least to me. My county does publish a breakdown of what the collected property tax revenues go towards. For instance, the single largest expenditure by the county is education, which accounts for ~70% of all collected property taxes (both residential and commercial). The remainder of the property tax collection goes toards many things like the police depart and fire services. So, you would think that in a crisis the legitimate use of the fire department would be covered, but not always. In my personal case I had an event in which my wife called 911 for EMTs to come out. I was unconscious during an incident back in July of this year. The person on the 911 services asked her 'How much does he weigh?' and this provoked the 911 services to dispatch more than just the two-person EMT vehicle.

What apparently showed up at my home was an EMT vehicle with two people and two fire engines with ten more people. This additional services was to assist in lifting my fat ass (I was 279 at the time, now 251 and falling) from my home into the EMT vehicle. A month later I notice on my Anthem claims page a change by the county fire services for rolling the EMTs, and a month after that an additional claim by county fire services for rolling the two fire engines. The EMTs claim got approved, but the second claim for the two fire engines got denied. This means I have to pay the county fire services the amount in what their claim submission was.

OK, so my property taxes pays for the existence of a Fire Department, but not the USE of the Fire Department. Wait, what?
 
That's pretty annoying. Double paying basically. Reminds me of how my city started charging a tipping fee to use the dump. The dump is a municipal service in which should be tax funded, it should not cost anything to use at least for residents (they could just go by plate number). Now people just keep dumping stuff in the woods and rural people are stuck dealing with it, and if they clean it up they are the ones that ultimately get charged to dispose of it.
 
I shouldn't be surprised. My state also multi-dips on vehicle ad valorem. About to but a new car and I'll pay a one-time 6.6% of the sale price for ad valorem. It is supposed to cover ad valorem for the life of the vehicle [while I own it]. I used the brackets because it use to be a small portion of the vehicle's expected life over the course of an annual basis. But now I have to pay all of it up front. And if I sell the car I am not reimbursed for portions of the vehicle's life once resold, but the buyer who buys from me must also pay that 6.6% for the life of the vehicle [while they own it]. I was stunned when I asked the tag office about this and commented about the double-dipping and she smiled and said, "You're right."

At this point why am I using 911 services? While could have asked the neighbor to haul my unconscious ass to the ER for half of what the county charges.
 
Go to the Fire Station, borrow their phone and call ambulance.
I had to pay for an ambulance call for my kid once. I think it was like 25 bux. didn't bother to submit to insurance.
 
Here, in addition to the regular property taxes, we just got hit for an extension of the 9-1-1 tax...plus, every other month, lumped into our water & sewer bill from the city, we get charged around $40 for an ambulance service fee. Then, should you actually use said ambulance service, you (or your insurance) get billed several thousand $$$ for ambulance services, just like you would if it was a private ambulance company.
 
Here the local tax supported ambulance crew responds and provides initial care at no charge. They then hand the patient off to a private ambulance service for transport. The state legislature made it illegal for insurance companies to negotiate transport charges so rates are stupid high. So the general plan is to have the local ambulance crew stabilize you, refuse transport, and then get to a hospital the best you can.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
I'm just waiting on the day I get shot at by a cop and then get $$$ for each bullet used.
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Don't give them any ideas lol. I would not even be surprised at this point if they started doing that. Send a bill to the victim or the victim's family. It would be something retarded too like $10,000. Heard horror stories of that with the fire department. If your car catches on fire on a highway that is not within any specific jurisdiction you can get hit very hard. You're better off just letting it burn and buy a new car as it will actually be cheaper than paying the FD and you'll probably need a new car anyway.
 
It would be helpful if, when posting how things are done in your state, you identified the state.

In NC, our property taxes support fire departments on a per fire district level. In a municipality the FD is supported out of the city budget. In other areas of the county, there is a fire tax for each fire district. Each department sets it own tax rate.

There is no charge for services, be it fire, rescue, medical, or just assistance. It's not uncommon to hear a dispatch to help an individual into the house from the car. Example, when a patient is returning home from the hospital and needs assistance with stairs. I may utilize this later this month when my wife had total knee replacement to help her up the stairs, if my grandsons are unable to help, as both are firefighters and may be on shift, just not at the FD that covers my home.
 
Can someone explain "ad valorum" tax to me? I live in MA, and I've never heard the term before.

We have to pay for plates/registration for a term of 2 years a pop, and then state inspections every year, and to the town that you reside in, you pay an Excise tax in the spring (every spring) to the town office of tax collector, according to a valuation of your vehicle, based on make/model/year. You pay the Excise tax for as long as you have title to the vehicle and reside in that town, whether or not it's registered (has plates) or is "on the road".

Is "Ad Valorum" like an estimated lifetime Excise tax that you have to pay the State up-front when you purchase a vehicle? We have to pay a Vehicle Sales Tax (can be different than "normal" Sales Tax) of a certain percentage when buying a vehicle new or used, unless it's within a limited circle of people (mostly family and close relatives). Even if you buy the vehicle from NH (tax-free), you are supposed to pay Vehicle Sales Tax upon import.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Can someone explain "ad valorum" tax to me? I live in MA, and I've never heard the term before.

We have to pay for plates/registration for a term of 2 years a pop, and then state inspections every year, and to the town that you reside in, you pay an Excise tax in the spring (every spring) to the town office of tax collector, according to a valuation of your vehicle, based on make/model/year. You pay the Excise tax for as long as you have title to the vehicle and reside in that town, whether or not it's registered (has plates) or is "on the road".

Is "Ad Valorum" like an estimated lifetime Excise tax that you have to pay the State up-front when you purchase a vehicle? We have to pay a Vehicle Sales Tax (can be different than "normal" Sales Tax) of a certain percentage when buying a vehicle new or used, unless it's within a limited circle of people (mostly family and close relatives). Even if you buy the vehicle from NH (tax-free), you are supposed to pay Vehicle Sales Tax upon import.
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To me, what you call an excise tax and the ad valorem tax sounds like the same thing. Property taxes are also ad valorem taxes. There is an assessed value and the tax is a percentage of the assessed value.

I would not be surprised if ad valorem taxes either encourage people to maintain old vehicles to keep them on the road longer or the populace that is being taxed is very good at fixing their cars so they stay on the road longer. It's a bit of a chicken or egg thing. The value of a car depreciates over time and thus the tax decreases over time.

Whereas with property taxes, lower rates and/or total payments can either attract people from areas with higher totals and/or rates, or encourage economic activity to pay them off as property taxes usually increase.
 
MtnMan said:
It would be helpful if, when posting how things are done in your state, you identified the state.

In NC, our property taxes support fire departments on a per fire district level. In a municipality the FD is supported out of the city budget. In other areas of the county, there is a fire tax for each fire district. Each department sets it own tax rate.

There is no charge for services, be it fire, rescue, medical, or just assistance. It's not uncommon to hear a dispatch to help an individual into the house from the car. Example, when a patient is returning home from the hospital and needs assistance with stairs. I may utilize this later this month when my wife had total knee replacement to help her up the stairs, if my grandsons are unable to help, as both are firefighters and may be on shift, just not at the FD that covers my home.
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He's in Georgia.
 
So, the end result was I paid for the EMT ride to the ER. Too bad I was unconscious for it otherwise I could have bribed my neighbors to lift my fat ass into a pickup for half the price. I learned that the only time my county fire services charges for anything is if the EMTs haul you into the ER. If the haul you anywhere else--bar, morgue, etc.--they do not charge. If they show up and spend hours on you but don't haul they do not charge. So it was a nice after Xmas $1100 spent.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
OK, so this is interesting, at least to me. My county does publish a breakdown of what the collected property tax revenues go towards. For instance, the single largest expenditure by the county is education, which accounts for ~70% of all collected property taxes (both residential and commercial). The remainder of the property tax collection goes toards many things like the police depart and fire services. So, you would think that in a crisis the legitimate use of the fire department would be covered, but not always. In my personal case I had an event in which my wife called 911 for EMTs to come out. I was unconscious during an incident back in July of this year. The person on the 911 services asked her 'How much does he weigh?' and this provoked the 911 services to dispatch more than just the two-person EMT vehicle.

What apparently showed up at my home was an EMT vehicle with two people and two fire engines with ten more people. This additional services was to assist in lifting my fat ass (I was 279 at the time, now 251 and falling) from my home into the EMT vehicle. A month later I notice on my Anthem claims page a change by the county fire services for rolling the EMTs, and a month after that an additional claim by county fire services for rolling the two fire engines. The EMTs claim got approved, but the second claim for the two fire engines got denied. This means I have to pay the county fire services the amount in what their claim submission was.

OK, so my property taxes pays for the existence of a Fire Department, but not the USE of the Fire Department. Wait, what?
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First the dispatcher ask for the obvious, how many people would be needed to lift you, secondary, would a bariatric stretcher* be required? This is to prevent injury to EMS personnel.

Is your area's EMS provider a private enterprise, meaning does it receive no financial support from your local government(s)? EMS in my county is county financed (staff are county employee's) yet they bill for services rendered.

* Bariatric stretcher: recommended for transporting patients over 300 LBS. This is the discretion of local EMS, which may also mandate lift assistance for patients over perhaps 250, or less with the weight of the stretcher, to limit EMS injury,
 
Mine was run by the county, not private. Second most populated county in Georgia with >900K residents. I even know the station they came from.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
Mine was run by the county, not private. Second most populated county in Georgia with >900K residents. I even know the station they came from.
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Georgia is a lardass state, pretty sure EMS is aware of that fact.

Copied from CDC report

64.8% were overweight, with a Body Mass Index of 25 or greater. 29.6% were obese, with a Body Mass Index of 30 or greater. 29.9% of adults reported having consumed fruits at the recommended level of 2 or more times per day.
 
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Taxes increase while services decrease. Everything becoming privatized and min/maxed for profit. The country is gradually becoming a dystopian nightmare.
 
Sonik[/I]ku said:
Taxes increase while services decrease. Everything becoming privatized and min/maxed for profit. The country is gradually becoming a dystopian nightmare.
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It's because it's Georgia. The collective did not desire to live there without incentives(jobs, lower taxes, etc). So the property values are lower for the amount of house you get(more sq ft, acrage, etc). That multiplied by the tax rate makes the actual property tax total cheaper relative to more desirable places. Those who get their foot in the door earlier have already saved money through lower mortgage payments.

Essentially, folks like the op are footing a bill so he can have more neighbors in the county.

Things might change eventually since the county has flipped its political tendencies and has had a massive population boom. But local things are usually dictated by more mundane matters and money. If the new regime thinks nothing needs changing, nothing will be changed.

    • How much does the County charge for people transported by a Med Unit to the hospital? The transport fee is a flat rate of $975 plus an additional $15 per mile. Property taxes fund the majority of the services provided by the Gwinnett County Department of Fire and Emergency Services. Customers (residents/business owners/visitors) do not receive a bill for any direct service provided by the department except for transport by ambulance. Even if an ambulance is part of the emergency response and provides advanced care at the scene, the patient will not be billed unless they are transported to the emergency room. The County has always billed for transport as a usage fee, which offsets some of the taxpayer costs to provide countywide emergency medical services. The department recovers revenue annually from transport fees. If there were not a user transport fee, that revenue would need to made up through increased property taxes.
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Where I'm at, I don't have to pay bills if an ambulance is need but the closest hospital is the problem. I would not trust it to seriously attempt to save lives once you one lands there. I'm young so I'm not too concerned about expiring, but for old people, there is enough experience to want to avoid them. Rather than go there, I drove my mom to hospitals further away in D.C or Silver Spring when she had problematic events.
 
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