your opinion

kurabii

Senior member
Nov 21, 2006
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Hey guys how are you, i know almost nothing about h-theater, just enough to get by!

i have a gift card from bestbuy for about 800 bucks. what would you recommend?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insignia...&skuId=9554519

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insignia...ustomerreviews

It will prolly go in my gf's game room that we have been building. its about 12x28ft room that will house a pool table. Im not really worried about sound tbh cause we will prolly get some wireless speakers. which would u recommend?

ill prolly hook it up to my htpc i built and also stream movies to it. high action films. etc. thanks i appreciate your help in advanced
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
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I wouldn't recommend a budget-brand TV. Go with this one instead (my link didn't work, so search for TC-P50C2 on Best Buy's website).

As far as speakers go, you should post your budget and what you want. There's a big difference between putting cheap, underpowered speakers in a 12'x8' room and putting them in a 12'x28' room. I have no clue what your speaker budget is, but if it's even $500, then you can do a lot better than just buying a HTIB (home theater in a box).

Also, I would not recommend wireless speakers. There are too many sacrifices involved, and if hiding speaker wire is what you're after, then you should know that the amp (or whatever it's called) that powers the "wireless" speakers is pretty big and must be connected to the speakers with wires. If you have the option of hiding speaker wire in the wall (that's what I did), under the baseboards, etc., then that's a much better option. You'll get better speakers, and they'll look more wireless than your "wireless" speakers.

Edit: My link didn't work...sorry. Another option is the Samsung 720p 50" plasmas. Just search for "+50" +plasma +720p" (without the quotes) on Best Buy's website, and you'll see 3 solid options in your price range.
 
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unfalliblekrutch

Golden Member
May 2, 2005
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If you go to bestbuy, look at the insignia tvs, compare them side by side with name brands like samsung, and you still feel like the insignia is worth the money, then by all means go for it. But don't choose to buy an insignia without seeing it.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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If you go to bestbuy, look at the insignia tvs, compare them side by side with name brands like samsung, and you still feel like the insignia is worth the money, then by all means go for it. But don't choose to buy an insignia without seeing it.

It's really difficult to get a good feel for which TV is best by comparing them at Best Buy. There are several reasons for this. The TVs will all be in "torch" mode. Pretty much all big-box stores have all their TVs set to very high brightness and contrast to compete with the bright lights of the store and with the TVs next to them.

Studies show that people will think that the brightest TV is the best-looking TV when comparing them side by side, and how bright a TV is when in "torch" mode has absolutely nothing to do with how good the TV will look once you turn the brightness down and put it by itself in your livingroom.

This is also why many people compare LCDs to plasmas in the store and think that the plasmas look dull. Every single modern TV is capable of way more brightness than you'll want at home, so don't let this cloud your judgment (but again, studies show that you probably will let it cloud your judgment :p).

Another problem is that the BB feeds to the TVs are typically crap. You want to pick the best TV based on a good source like a BD and not a source that's split 87 times to different TVs.

So, your best bet is to read professional reviews first and in-person viewing second. If you can get a hold of the TV remote at BB and change the mode to "movie" or "cinema," that will give you a much better basis of comparison. Also, try to view just one TV at a time instead of comparing two at the same time. You'll be drawn to the brightest one just like a moth to a flame. If your BB has a Magnolia Theater, then those are much better viewing conditions: livingroom-esque lighting, BD players (sometimes), etc. However, you're not likely to find $800 TVs in the Magnolia Theater, so I'm not sure how much good that will do.

In other words you could go into BB, compare an Insignia to a Panasonic, think the Insignia actually looks better, and then buy a TV with a vastly inferior PQ compared to the Panasonic. It's just the way it is.
 

kurabii

Senior member
Nov 21, 2006
553
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i did go and check them out, the insignia was not as good as the panasonic tbh. it was blurier than the panasonic but the blacks were wayyyy better in the insignia. I sat and thought plasma is better than lcd. Its just as thin. the light doesnt matter betcause 6k hours is 100 years basically.

i will absolutely go and check them out before i buy of course. ill check them all out but i cant seem to see why everyone knocks plasma. they are just as thin as LCD??? the burn in... well just be careful and dont leave ur screen on when u passout. lol ok cool ill check em out buddy thanks i apreciate it!
 

kurabii

Senior member
Nov 21, 2006
553
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itll mostly hook up to a htpc and blue-ray player. should i not opt for 1080 progressive? or 720 is more than enough for me
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
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itll mostly hook up to a htpc and blue-ray player. should i not opt for 1080 progressive? or 720 is more than enough for me

It depends on two things: what you'll use the HTPC for and your viewing distance. For most people at somewhere between 8 and 10 feet from a 50" TV, they can no longer distinguish between 720p and 1080p. If you're at least that far away, then you'll be better served by a good 720p TV than a cheapo 1080p TV. According to the ISF, contrast ratio, color saturation, and color accuracy are all more important to the PQ than resolution.

If this is going to be used as a computer monitor for productivity, then you'll benefit from 1080p. If it's just for video, then you should be OK with 720p, and it would fall under the viewing-distance guidelines in the previous paragraph.

FWIW, I've been using a HTPC as my main source for the past year with my 720p plasma, and it works great. I'd much rather have my TV that's only 720p than a 1080p TV with a worse PQ. At $800 and 50" that's what you're basically choosing between. If you increase your budget to around $1,100, then you could probably get a 50" 1080p TV that would look as good as that Panasonic 50" 720p plasma, but it probably wouldn't be worth the extra money unless you're closer than 8' to the TV.

As far as LCDs being better than plasmas, that's something that the ignorant usually think. There are things (brightly lit rooms and power consumption) in which LCDs trump plasma; however, in the things that matter (blacks, viewing angle, motion handling) plasmas typically trump LCDs at any given price for sizes 50" and above. I mentioned the price part, because I'm sure you could find a $3,000 LCD TV that would have a better PQ than the $800 Panasonic plasma, but that's not a valid comparison. If you could still find a $3,000 Pioneer Elite plasma, then that would trump every single TV out there, which pretty much squelches the cries of the LCD fanboys :D.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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if you're using the tv for a computer monitor, then 1080 is the only way to go. 720 will make text unreadable or totally ugly.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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if you're using the tv for a computer monitor, then 1080 is the only way to go. 720 will make text unreadable or totally ugly.

I can read text just fine on my 720p plasma. The difference between 1080p and 720p will be in the size of things on the screen and the amount of screen space you have; it will have absolutely zero bearing on how "ugly" the text is.

If anything, text would be unreadable at a farther viewing distance on a 1080p TV. Also, there's this nifty thing called "zoom" that will make text the appropriate size regardless of resolution.

FWIW, text looks better on my Pioneer 5080 (720p) than it doesn on m[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]y Panasonic TC-L32S1 [/SIZE][/FONT](1080p).
 

kurabii

Senior member
Nov 21, 2006
553
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thanks thanks, ill admit i do use as my laptop screen!!! i think kalrith makes a great point and i really appreciate your responses. they are well put together and i am actually liking the samsung http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+...&skuId=9239371
model. its a great tv and reading other reviews online its the best move. i dont have straight cash and would rather spend giftcard only :p

i wanna spend my unemployed on my education, need university hahahaha. also found a blu-ray drive online dirrrrrrty cheap 40 bucks. maybe i can trade and add cash.

much appreciated bud
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,208
537
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The other important thing to note if you use a HTPC on a plasma is to be careful about burn-in. LCD's will handle this a little more gracefully (and can almost always be fixed by cycling different screens for an hour at most since it is simply a crystal memory issue which is not permanent damage, but phosphor burn is permanent on a plasma).
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
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The other important thing to note if you use a HTPC on a plasma is to be careful about burn-in. LCD's will handle this a little more gracefully (and can almost always be fixed by cycling different screens for an hour at most since it is simply a crystal memory issue which is not permanent damage, but phosphor burn is permanent on a plasma).

I wouldn't really worry about burn-in; it's been a non-issue for a few years now. Just set your screen saver to come on after 1 minute, and you won't have IR, let alone burn-in. I've been using my HTPC for 90% of my viewing for over a year, and I haven't once experienced IR on my plasma.

IR is image retention. It's kind of like burn-in, but it's not at all permanent. If you don't experience IR (like I don't), then you're not even close to having burn-in.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
2
0
i did go and check them out, the insignia was not as good as the panasonic tbh. it was blurier than the panasonic but the blacks were wayyyy better in the insignia. I sat and thought plasma is better than lcd. Its just as thin. the light doesnt matter betcause 6k hours is 100 years basically.

i will absolutely go and check them out before i buy of course. ill check them all out but i cant seem to see why everyone knocks plasma. they are just as thin as LCD??? the burn in... well just be careful and dont leave ur screen on when u passout. lol ok cool ill check em out buddy thanks i apreciate it!

Well, Plasma is still a little better picture wise, but the gap is closing. The thing is that the cons that Plasmas have are great selling points for LCDs and the advantages that Plasma has are not not great selling points when you are in the store. Also, TV is like audio. The loudest will win regardless. If you trying to make your speaker sound better than another, all you have to do is make it louder. Same goes for video, but louder in this case is brighter. LCD's can just get brighter than plasmas. LCD manufactures know this, so they calibrate them to be really bright when you take it out of the box. They know that stores will not take time to make everything the same.
 

unfalliblekrutch

Golden Member
May 2, 2005
1,418
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Kalrith, I know what you're saying with regards to looking at a tv in bestbuy not being the best comparison. However, since bestbuy is the only retailer of Insignia tv(obviously), and since I'm not aware of any real reviews on Insignia tvs, the only point of comparison is at bestbuy.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
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Kalrith, I know what you're saying with regards to looking at a tv in bestbuy not being the best comparison. However, since bestbuy is the only retailer of Insignia tv(obviously), and since I'm not aware of any real reviews on Insignia tvs, the only point of comparison is at bestbuy.

I will consent to that point. However, after reading this article a couple years ago, I stay far away from budget-brand TVs. Here's the excerpt about Insignia:

Insignia is Best Buy’s “house brand.” It offers a line of HDTVs up to 42”. According to Best Buy salesmen and the Insignia website (http://www.insignia-products.com/t-WarrantyInformationEnglish.aspx) if an Insignia TV needs repair, you must bring it into the store where it was purchased in its “original packaging or packaging affording an equal degree of protection”. Hauling a 92 pound 42” plasma television in its factory carton is quite a hassle probably requiring a large SUV, pickup truck or van. The Best Buy salesmen also said that after the factory one year warranty expires, Best Buy will not repair Insignia brand televisions, but if the two hundred dollar Best Buy extended warranty is purchased with the television, Best Buy will provide in-home service.

I'd choose Panasonic's concierge service over the Insignia "service" any day. And this isn't even getting into the comparison in PQ, which I really don't see how Insignia could compare to the offerings from Samsung and Panasonic.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
2
0
I will consent to that point. However, after reading this article a couple years ago, I stay far away from budget-brand TVs. Here's the excerpt about Insignia:



I'd choose Panasonic's concierge service over the Insignia "service" any day. And this isn't even getting into the comparison in PQ, which I really don't see how Insignia could compare to the offerings from Samsung and Panasonic.

they are cheap for a reason and I am willing to bet that Insignia Plasmas are probably made by Panasonic or Samsung (or the worst case, LG).
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,235
2
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i did go and check them out, the insignia was not as good as the panasonic tbh. it was blurier than the panasonic but the blacks were wayyyy better in the insignia. I sat and thought plasma is better than lcd. Its just as thin. the light doesnt matter betcause 6k hours is 100 years basically.

i will absolutely go and check them out before i buy of course. ill check them all out but i cant seem to see why everyone knocks plasma. they are just as thin as LCD??? the burn in... well just be careful and dont leave ur screen on when u passout. lol ok cool ill check em out buddy thanks i apreciate it!

Oh boy, we can't have a thread about HDTVs without the plasma versus LCD debate. People who typically buy plasmas are the same sort of people who would try to talk you into an impractical 2 seater exotic sports car that needs lots of repairs, when you have a whole family to cart around and really needed a reliable 4 door sedan. But the same sort of people who buy sports cars over sedans will also trade them in regularly when they start to need service a lot, or begin to run like crap. Most practical people on a budget can't afford to buy a new HDTV every year or 2 like a $3000 plasma Pioneer Kuro.

Get this recent news flash plasma groupies: the AMAZING DARK BLACKS on plasmas when new, are now suddenly not so amazing, as plasma buyers discover after a few hundred or a thousand hours use they aren't so black anymore or they are now too black. This problem has now been acknowledged by Panasonic, and I'm sure the other plasma makers are also aware of the problem unique to plasmas and simply keeping quiet about it. Mostly the problem is related to the way plasma reacts with the glass causing a dimming effect over time and as the glass gets burned in, or the plasma is burned on the glass, it grows dimmer. Just like a light bulb. This effect cannot be fixed with present technology. And the dimming effect is so gradual, most plasma owners might not even notice it for a year or more.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/panasonic-cops-to-rising-black-levels-in-its-plasma-hdtvs-but-q/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/...m_campaign=Feed:weblogsinc/engadget(Engadget)

And image retention is still a nagging problem with plasmas, and is especially noticeable if you see one used at a bar or restaurant where they might show a news channel or a sports channel that runs a ticker at the bottom of the screen. That ticker is burned in to the plasma glass, and no amount of plasma recalibration test screens is going to get rid of it, ever. The same principle that burns an image onto your florescent or incandescent light glass leads to plasma image degradation, and there is nothing you can do about it in the long term.

And since plasmas tend to run hotter than LCDs, this extra heat is also transferred throughout the case which can create more heat related problems with the other TV electronics, especially if mounted directly next to a wall or in a cabinet with limited ventilation.

LCDs on the other hand, run cooler and under most circumstances, will maintain the same picture quality as new for years, provided the inferior electronic components don't fail. Which is a nagging problem now with all cheapo electronics lately from Asia, plasmas included, and also includes appliances and your shiny new Toyota. Also on a new 120-240hz LCD, you won't notice any difference in the motion speeds now compared to a plasma. 2 or 3 years ago, this was partially true, but now if it's a quality LCD with 120hz or more, you just won't see the difference.

And when manufactures make the bogus claim your new HDTV DISPLAY will last 60-100k hours it is a partial lie, because under virtually no circumstances will the electronic components that run the display continue to work that long without being replaced countless times. 5 years from now, 75-90% of all plasma and LCD HDTVs made will be sitting in a landfill, mostly due to lack of repair parts. And not because their DISPLAYS stopped working, but because the manufacturers simply stopped supporting them.

And if you go to a website like http://www.AVSFORUM.com you will see people admitting to buying a new plasma every year or 2. And some even admit to doing this since plasmas first came out. If the picture on a plasma were so amazing, they wouldn't need to get a new one on a yearly basis. Because as they see the various problems start to develop with their plasmas, many get them repaired then quickly dump them while still under warranty, and simply buy a new one.

On this "elitist technocratic" website, however, you certainly won't see anyone with money burning a hole in their pocket admit to dumping their plasmas because they are now unhappy with them, EVER. They know by you buying a new plasma, like buying the exotic sports car, you are really helping to finance more plasma research and sales and keeping their plasma sports cars alive for a while longer. So that they can still go out and by a new one next year, when their darky darks aren't so darky dark anymore.
 
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kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
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SlickSnake,

You've taken a problem with one line of one manufacturer's plasmas and applied it to all vehicles. That would be like saying taking Toyota's acceleration problem and saying, "OMG, don't buy Japanese cars!!!" There's no evidence of this being a problem with any other plasma, so applying it to all plasmas is as valid as applying it to all LCDs, since it's a problem with Panasonic's electronics and not the plasma technology.

News flash!!! Both LCDs and plasmas have a half-life! This means that over time both LCDs and plasmas will have a reduction in max brightness with BOTH of them reaching half life at about 100k hours.

I'll agree with you about plasmas being a problem if they're left on CNET 24/7. So, OP, if you watch absolutely nothing but CNET, then you should get an LCD. If you're like most/all people and don't do that, then you won't have a problem with IR or burn-in on a modern-day plasma (I've seen 0 IR on my 2yo plasma). LCDs aren't immune from burn-in either (although it's called something else on an LCD), so I would venture to say that an LCD TV left on CNET 24/7 for 5 years straight would exhibit similar problems to a plasma. Here's a question: how many of you have experienced burn-in on your CRT TV. A modern-day plasma should handle burn-in BETTER than a CRT, and I've heard of one CRT in my entire life with burn-in, and that was a computer monitor that was left on 24/7 with no screen saver.

I have no idea where you came up with the idea that plasmas and LCDs will automatically break after 5 years. My sister's had her plasma for 8-9 years now, and it's still going strong. And, guess what? She's got 0 burn-in even though her kids will leave a Wii game paused for hours and generally abuse the TV.

Also, you'll always find people who aren't satisfied with what they have as soon as something new and "better" comes along. I put better in quotes, because for the owners of the newest Pioneer plasmas, there's nothing better on the market. There are people who buy a new car every 2 years, spend $300 on a new video card every year, etc. This is a problem with our culture that says we have to have the latest, greatest, newest, shiniest thing out there, even if what we have is just fine for our purposes. I really don't see how any of that fits into this thread though. This isn't ATOT, but your post certainly sounds like it.