Your chance to convert someone away from Microsoft

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
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I am windows person. Since before I can remember it was windows. 3.1, 95, 98/SE, 2k, XP Pro. I have been hearing some stuff about Linux and was wondering how good it really is. When it comes to software i can handle my own, but i'm no programmer and i'm no good at running stuff directly off of prompts such as DOS, etc. How hard would it be for someone who has used windows till now to make the switch. Do most games out there support Linux or would i have to go buy brand new games. I'm talking mainly about BF 1942, HL2, FarCry, stuff like that.
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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The switch itself is pretty easy these days, assuming you've got reasonably normal hardware. Based on your rig, though, I cannot really recommend it as a gaming platform. ATI has a rather pathetic excuse for Linux drivers(though the Free Software drivers for older Radeons, up to 9200, are said to be quite good indeed) which would likely cripple your performance. Game support in Linux is a bit hit or miss. Some games, particularly Id ones, work quite well with very little trouble, a fair few others work with Wine/Cedega and more or less fiddling. If a game does work with Linux, you won't need to buy it again(certain, mostly older, exceptions exist); but if it doesn't you won't be able to buy if for Linux at all.

What I would recommend is for you to start out by having a look at one of the LiveCDs. Those are useful tools even if you don't plan on using Linux in the future(great for recovering data from b0rked Windows installs, and the like) and will serve to give you a decent idea of what a modern Linux desktop looks like. Knoppix is perhaps the most iconic LiveCD distro, Damn Small Linux is a good lightweight one(being able to boot your OS off of a USB flashdrive is quite cute indeed), the Ubuntu LiveCD is nice and friendly.

If you can, I would also recommend attempting to scrounge up an older box just for playing with Linux on. You can run it on surprisingly archaic hardware without too much trouble(especially if you stay away from KDE or GNOME) and it is really nice to have a box that you don't have to worry about borking and can just play with. Debian would be a good distro for this purpose, or Ubuntu if you want something a bit easier. This should also allow you to get to know Linux's strengths. It is very, very solid indeed, and has some excellent apps, most Free(in both senses) to work with.
 

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
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Thanks for the reply. I have 3 rigs with which i could put it on. The first one is the one listed in my sig, but it's the family comp. so i cant really do anything to that without the parents and sisters freaking out. The second is a P3 1Ghz, 512ram, and a GF2 GTS w/ 32mb ram currently running XP Pro no problems. The system i was really looking to put it on was a Dell Precision M70 that i should be getting tomorrow for college. 2.0 P/M, 1gb ram, QuadroFX Go1400 w/ 256mb ram. Now how does linux work. Do u install the OS and then its got different desktop configurations depending on what you have?

These pics were the ones that got me thinking. Any idea what this is? Can I still use Windows media player, i.e., and MS Office?

http://theendlessnow.com/M70-3/
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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Well, don't mess with the family computer(bitter, bitter experience) The second system you mentioned would be a great Linux box, if you fancy it. New enough to bear up under decent load, old enough to be quite well supported indeed.

As for the laptop, it looks like it shouldn't be so bad. http://theendlessnow.com/M70/m70-suse.html provides a quick runthrough of the install of Suse 9.3(by the chap who produced the pictures you linked to). If you keep the Dell restore disks on hand you cannot possibly go too far wrong, so it is always worth a shot(or dual boot, at any rate). Generally, one doesn't use Office, or WMP on a Linux desktop. You can use Crossover Office(a tweaked commercial version of WINE) to provide a compatibility layer that allows Office and some other popular productivity apps to run; but most people don't bother, as OpenOffice is free and quite decent for all but certain advanced functions.

In terms of install: Linux is highly customizable, it runs on everything from tiny embedded systems to supercomputers. This means that you, theoretically, have a huge amount of choice. In order to make things easier on the users, there are various distributions, some easier than others, some more feature filled than others, some that give the user much more choice than others, and so forth. Something like Suse is pretty streamlined. Pop in the CD, boot from it, make a few basic choices in the graphical installer, get dumped right into a nice desktop environment. Pretty much all the choices get made for you(though you can always change them later). Ubuntu is the same way; but it makes diffirent choices for you(e.g. GNOME instead of KDE as a window manager and APT as opposed to YAST as a package manager). In the middle are distros like Debian, which require more user imput, and aren't quite as immediately friendly; but give you more control. At the extreme end are distros like Gentoo and Linux From Scratch, where you build the entire OS and all the apps from the ground up. Massive control; but a bit of a headache for the first time user(and not something to do on a machine that you back up quickly).

Edit: I just noticed that fellow who put up that gallery has an email address listed. Linux users, especially the sort that build websites about their adventures, are not infrequently fairly nice about helping people out(and the flattery implied by emulation probably wouldn't hurt). Do consider dropping him a missive; but try his directions first, and google any problems you run into(google often knows quite a bit about linux issues) and he might well be happy to tell you about specifics of setup and so forth. He would probably be more useful than I for specific questions, as he has the machine in front of him, and I have something rather diffirent.

I do urge you to give it a go; but make sure that you have the restore disks available, so no matter how badly things get screwed up, and that can be a very useful part of the learning process, you'll be able to set them right without any trouble.

Additional edit: distrowatch.org is a good place to go for a look at the variety of options. Also, there are a fair few "What distro should I use?" threads floating around here that might prove useful.
 

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
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Would it be better to just use a blank hard drive that i have hanging around first and that way if something goes south i can just format it or go back to xp?
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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For desktop use, a dedicated Linux harddrive is an excellent idea indeed. For laptops, it is your decision whether or not the drive swapping annoys you excessively. Some make it easier than others, and some manufacturers are touchier than others about users touching hardware. I don't know how modern Dells stack up on either count(I've not had to mess with the hardware of any recent Dell).
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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I wouldn't worry about it to much.

Dual booting complicates stuff, but it's not terrificly hard. Just as long as you know how to use Windows XP recovery console and use fixmbr you can always restore the windows bootloader... providing of course you don't accidently erase your windows partitions.

But it's easiest if you dont' have to worry about it.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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First thing to do is stop wanting to run Windows software on Linux, it's possible but it's more trouble than it's worth. You'll have a much better experience if you stick with Linux software.

Second which is related to the first, most games won't run on Linux without WINE and even then it's hit and miss whether they'll work or not. Some games have native Linux ports like Doom3, ET, Q3, etc but most don't.

Third, be prepared for a lot of frustration. Linux isn't Windows and no matter how pretty the GUI is, it's not Windows so you'll have to learn a lot in order to be comfortable using Linux.

Overall I think it's more than worth the hassle of converting. I use Linux on all of my machines and I have a lot more power and control over them and 99% of the software is free and open source so I don't have to worry about some corporation screwing me over or trying to remember whether my install is OEM or not.
 

LBmtb

Member
Jan 27, 2005
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Everyone has just about covered everything but I'll add this: once you get your system setup nicely, you NEVER have to worry about a single program messing everything up, you don't have to worry about spyware or browser hijacking, and you never have to wory about virii (yes I know it's possible but VERY unlikely).
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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True. I've had the same Debian install at home for like 6 years now, the only thing that would make me reinstall from scratch would be the drive dying so quickly that I couldn't recover the data from it and I've had ~3 drives die and that hasn't happened yet =)
 

santaliqueur

Member
Feb 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: LBmtb
Everyone has just about covered everything but I'll add this: once you get your system setup nicely, you NEVER have to worry about a single program messing everything up, you don't have to worry about spyware or browser hijacking, and you never have to wory about virii (yes I know it's possible but VERY unlikely).
is this really true? so there isnt such a thing as linux spyware removers or antivirus software? i'm not challenging you, just asking, because i'll be making the switch as soon as i get my dual opteron bundle from amd tech tour. i really dont have that much of a problem with virii or spyware in windows, but it would be nice not to have to worry about it. so once i install linux (most likely suse or FC4), i can, more or less, forget about getting infected?

CJ
 

LBmtb

Member
Jan 27, 2005
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There are linux antivirus programs like clam AV but the only people who use them are the ones who have file servers for windows machines (so the files being moved between windows machines are cleaned) or the really paranoid ones. No linux spyware remover that I know of.

And yeah, ever since I've used Fedora I havent even thought about spyware or virii.
 

phisrow

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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There have been a few viruses, back in the redhat 6.x (for smallish values of x) days; but they were never all that common and are less so now. There are Linux antivirus packages(e.g. ClamAV) but they are primarily designed for keeping things like email streams and Samba shares clean for the Windows boxes that interact with them.

This is not to say that Linux boxes are magically immune to all internet nastiness as, particularly if they've been set up wrong, they can sometimes be rooted manually. That is to be avoided; but just isn't at all as common as an automated worm attack, browser exploit, email virus, etc.

So yeah, Linux security is almost as good as it looks, and rather nice to have.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Nothinman, which branch(es) of Debian to you run?

sid/unstable on my home machine and laptop and sarge on my two home servers. 2 of them are i386, one Alpha and 1 sparc64.
 

lard bunnys

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2005
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roguerower, I would check out distrowatch.com. Usually people recommend Suse, Mandriva or Fedora for newcomers (experts use them too). I would definately recommend trying a few live cd's like Knoppix, Kanotix, MEPIS or PCLinuxOS.

I'm using Ubuntu (my first distro). It's been my sole OS since December when after using Linux for three months I upgraded my XP to SP2 & hosed it. I might install XP on a second hard drive this week solely to play GTA San Andreas.

I also want to use that spare to install Debian Sid too. PC-BSD looks interesting as well, although I'm partial to Gnome.
 

TJones2

Senior member
Oct 27, 2004
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I've tried various distributions of Linux through the years, but always gave up because I could never figure out how to install applications. Never seemed at all straight forward, and that's what I like about Windows. I don't want to read a bunch of how to's to figure out how to do something basic, I want it intuitive.

 

lard bunnys

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Nothinman, I did check out your rigs. I'm currently on AMD64.
I can't wait for Debian to make it an official port so they can work on their multi arch solution. I like running AMD64, but I think It'd be easier for some things to run x86 (for Flash, codecs, Cedega). I think I'll install a 32bit chroot in my Ubuntu this weekend.

roguerower, didn't mean to hijack your thread...good luck!
 

lard bunnys

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2005
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TJones2, I can emphasize. I think the biggest barriers to entry are time & commitment. Since knowledge is hierarchical it can only get easier as you go.
 

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
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Ok, so if I want to run SUSE, what version should i get. The comp its goin on is below:

P3 @ 1Ghz
512 mb ram
32mb GF2 GTS
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Nothinman, I did check out your rigs. I'm currently on AMD64.
I can't wait for Debian to make it an official port so they can work on their multi arch solution. I like running AMD64, but I think It'd be easier for some things to run x86 (for Flash, codecs, Cedega). I think I'll install a 32bit chroot in my Ubuntu this weekend.

My main machine may become AMD64 in the not too distant future, but I'm sure I'll keep using the same 32-bit install since there's no reason for me to switch to 64-bit right now.
 

lard bunnys

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2005
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roguerower, I would recommend getting the boxed set (9.3). I hear it comes with an excellent book. Or you could download it (9.2) & check out your local library.