Young, black and on track ... Why African-American boys often fail in school

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BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: BOBDN
It's safe to say the real problem these kids face is the racism they face as exhibited by the statements made in this thread.
I really don't think that's the case. Racism is alive and well, but "whitey" doesn't need to bother keeping "the brothers" (tounge planted in cheek here) down if they're literally their own worst enemy. Racism is little more than an annoyance if you're not even close to entering the workplace and moving up the social food chain. I think that's essentially the point the author is trying to make; that the kids and their parents have to break the cycle on their own. The sub-lesson is that the state of the black family in the US is in dire need of an overhaul. I recall someone posting what seemed like an absurdly high figure for black kids born out of wedlock; I was all ready to flame the guy, but went and looked up the stat for myself first and damn if it wasn't factual. A single parent who's working three jobs just to pay the rent hardly has time to impart wisdom and guidance to her kids. My wife's sister was a teacher in inner-city Houston for several years and one of the biggest challenges she faced with her kids was getting the parents to actually give a sh*t and correct the kid if he/she wasn't doing well or misbehaving. Most of the parents were just non-entities in the kid's lives. Sad.
I have to disagree. Racism is the root of the problem. It's easy to say racism isn't when you're not the victim of it.

These kids carry the extra burden racism imposes on them daily as evidenced by some of the posts above.
It's a contributing factor IMHO, but not the root of the problem. The kid's already got two strikes against him with an absentee father and mom working three jobs. If he starts to slide, there's no one there to stop him and put him back on track. In my childhood if I came home with bad grades or got detention there were going to be reprecussions; as such, I got good grades and didn't get in trouble much. Obviously, this isn't the absolute cure since there are junior felons running around whose parents are very involved in their lives, but parental involvement certainly helps.

As before, racism isn't going away, but I don't think it's necessarily the root of the problem. If it were, you wouldn't see the statistical differences between black boys and black girls.

Black females aren't perceived to be the threat black males are. Teachers are people too. They have their prejudices. I've dealt with many of them. Teacher expectation is the single greatest contributing factor in student achievement.
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
0
Originally posted by: Bleep
he said 2 black guys from his class who were "complete muppets" now are full fledged EMTs. I guess I don't like hearing about slackers being shuffled into postions of (especially) medical importance
The key words here are "he said" I would say that there is probably no truth to his statement, juist another racist that blames all his problems and failures on those "damm black people".

Bleep
from my own experiences in corporate america i can sure as hell tell you that this does indeed happen. minorities are held to lower standards, and even women is some cases, leaving more deserving ppl to get the shaft!
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
A black antrhopologist did a study of an affluent upper class black majority suburb, I think i Ohio, somewhere around there. His study showed that even though the majority of students were black, the white students still did better, while most blacks did poorly. He came to the conclusion that black students didnt care about how they did in school, as their parents were not involved in their schooling. While the white students parents were more involved, and their children did better. Of course all the black people called him, not black enough, white apologist, racist, etc.
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: BOBDN
It's safe to say the real problem these kids face is the racism they face as exhibited by the statements made in this thread.
I really don't think that's the case. Racism is alive and well, but "whitey" doesn't need to bother keeping "the brothers" (tounge planted in cheek here) down if they're literally their own worst enemy. Racism is little more than an annoyance if you're not even close to entering the workplace and moving up the social food chain. I think that's essentially the point the author is trying to make; that the kids and their parents have to break the cycle on their own. The sub-lesson is that the state of the black family in the US is in dire need of an overhaul. I recall someone posting what seemed like an absurdly high figure for black kids born out of wedlock; I was all ready to flame the guy, but went and looked up the stat for myself first and damn if it wasn't factual. A single parent who's working three jobs just to pay the rent hardly has time to impart wisdom and guidance to her kids. My wife's sister was a teacher in inner-city Houston for several years and one of the biggest challenges she faced with her kids was getting the parents to actually give a sh*t and correct the kid if he/she wasn't doing well or misbehaving. Most of the parents were just non-entities in the kid's lives. Sad.
I have to disagree. Racism is the root of the problem. It's easy to say racism isn't when you're not the victim of it.

These kids carry the extra burden racism imposes on them daily as evidenced by some of the posts above.
what posts have been racist? i dont think talking about the world as it is makes you racist.

and its nice to see you have the 'everybody is the cause of my problems but me' mentality. im sure your well on your way to success!
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Originally posted by: digitalsm
A black antrhopologist did a study of an affluent upper class black majority suburb, I think i Ohio, somewhere around there. His study showed that even though the majority of students were black, the white students still did better, while most blacks did poorly. He came to the conclusion that black students didnt care about how they did in school, as their parents were not involved in their schooling. While the white students parents were more involved, and their children did better. Of course all the black people called him, not black enough, white apologist, racist, etc.
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well....because their parents make them do 3 hours of homework every night and do not allow them to have a life outside of home and school until they are 30.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Flatline
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well...
Great. Can there be just one day without an Asian-bashing in these forums?
are you kidding?? is it me or did i misread the original statement.

i thought he was stating it as fact.
 

Flatline

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2001
1,248
0
0
Should I add a wink? Frankly, the more involved the parents are in their kids' lives the better they seem to do, whether black, white, asian, polka-dot...
 

Citadel535

Senior member
Jan 16, 2001
816
0
0
Someone mentioned something about affirmative action, if anything, this article does say something about it. If you are required to hire a number of African-American males AND these African-American males have not progressed education-wise, then your business/school/etc suffers from poorly educated employees that must be hired.

It's basic logic.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...he said that they stay home until the age of 30, though...this is racism, in the eyes of the clowns around here.
actually with traditional koreans, the oldest son will live with his parents indefinitely. where the first 10 to 20 yrs they are living with their parents (in the western view) and the last years of the parents life the parents are living with their son.

koreans don't make that distinction.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: digitalsm
A black antrhopologist did a study of an affluent upper class black majority suburb, I think i Ohio, somewhere around there. His study showed that even though the majority of students were black, the white students still did better, while most blacks did poorly. He came to the conclusion that black students didnt care about how they did in school, as their parents were not involved in their schooling. While the white students parents were more involved, and their children did better. Of course all the black people called him, not black enough, white apologist, racist, etc.
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well....because their parents make them do 3 hours of homework every night and do not allow them to have a life outside of home and school until they are 30.
LOL:D Yup

Color does not matter usually. Sure there's the occational racist boss who has an unwritten rule not to hire so and so but from what I have found this is a very tiny tiny minority, since usually all professional hirings are done by commitee anyway and the workplace is pretty diverse these days. Bottom line is the problem many kids face is lack of a stable learning enviroment and caring enviroment thier first 5 years of development. And the fisrt 5 is most important. A childs personality is pretty well developed at this age (parents know what I'm talking about). How does this poor performance come about? Mainly from single parents, but not always, and from "career driven" parents (remember columbine) who don't have or are unwilling to devote the time and love required to properly develope this childs personality and instill virtures of possitive performance in that child. Playstation does'nt raise a child, running the streets with dopers does'nt raise a child, a setting a bad example of irrresponsible behavior does'nt either. It takes devotion, leading by example, praise, disapline sometimes, and "quality time" with the individual child.


Asian Parents Kick ass so do thier kids for this reason.
 

Flatline

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2001
1,248
0
0
One of the most pathetic things I have ever heard came from my mother, who is a high-school teacher...a parent came to a conference fuming and actually said these words to my mother:
"Why aren't you doing a better job raising my son?"

BTW, the kid dropped out the next semester.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Flatline
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well...
Great. Can there be just one day without an Asian-bashing in these forums?
are you kidding?? is it me or did i misread the original statement.

i thought he was stating it as fact.
In case no one told you I'm a racist. Ask anyone ;)
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Flatline
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well...
Great. Can there be just one day without an Asian-bashing in these forums?
are you kidding?? is it me or did i misread the original statement.

i thought he was stating it as fact.
In case no one told you I'm a racist. Ask anyone ;)
That reminds me; the dry cleaners called. Your robe and pointy hat are ready. :p

 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.

 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Flatline
This would explain all those Asian kids doing well...
Great. Can there be just one day without an Asian-bashing in these forums?
are you kidding?? is it me or did i misread the original statement.

i thought he was stating it as fact.
In case no one told you I'm a racist. Ask anyone ;)
That reminds me; the dry cleaners called. Your robe and pointy hat are ready. :p
w00t!....

Got some bad news, they told me they had an accident with the starch and your thong. Ummm...do you have a crowbar by any chance?
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.
Family structure is the main culprit there I'd say. Race is a non-issue as you're talking about skin color...period. Racism is kind of a wild card, but really only comes into play later in life IMHO. I can't speak for other cities, but here in Atlanta your average black kid is going to attend school mostly with other black kids; schools are pretty segregated here, sadly.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.
Yup. Only a matter of time until parts of white america start coming unglued as well tho. PM vi_edit and ask him about methamphetamine use in the midwest. That crap is a ticking bomb....only a matter of time.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.
True. Conversely, even though public schools are largely crap a kid who actually sticks it out and graduates has a huge leg up on the rest of his/her life. Somehow (again, I think this is the author's point) the cycle has to be broken so that kids don't see only despair in their lives. Most of us are a reflection of our parents; I never even considered NOT attending college as this was just the norm for me growing up. Mom and Dad both had degrees and jobs, so that's what I aspired to.

 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.

The problem is, its not just inner cities. Wealthly black students, in affluent wealthly black suburb areas do just as poorly as those in the inner cities. Or atleast thats what some studies have concluded.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
My wife and I made a CONSCIOUS decision to move to the US because in our opinion our kids would get a BETTER education here in the US than they would in Korea.

this statement is shocking to many on AT, but my experience has been, even the worst schools in the US give kids with good family support a chance at success.

but it isn't WHAT is being taught that influenced our decision but HOW they were being taught. american system of education allows the students more freedom and individuality. these values are JUST as important as the SUBSTANCE of the education.

who what where when how are all important but the WHY is different. it's the WHY in asian education that in my opinion limit them.

do korean / japanese high school kids do better on standardized exams than american students? YES, but ONCE they get in college american students excel beyond what you see in korea.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.

The problem is, its not just inner cities. Wealthly black students, in affluent wealthly black suburb areas do just as poorly as those in the inner cities. Or atleast thats what some studies have concluded.
i haven't done a study per se, but all the black students i met in college came from middle class homes. i don't remember 1 single black student that i met in college that came from the inner city. that to me is a strong indication that black kids from middle class backgrounds do better in school than black kids from the inner city.

btw, I grew up in atlanta so i knew quite a few black people in middle school / high school.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.

The problem is, its not just inner cities. Wealthly black students, in affluent wealthly black suburb areas do just as poorly as those in the inner cities. Or atleast thats what some studies have concluded.
i haven't done a study per se, but all the black students i met in college came from middle class homes. i don't remember 1 single black student that i met in college that came from the inner city. that to me is a strong indication that black kids from middle class backgrounds do better in school than black kids from the inner city.

btw, I grew up in atlanta so i knew quite a few black people in middle school / high school.

It all IMHO has to do with parenting, those with parents that involved with their childrens education, do better than those that do not.

Thats the problem, alot of rich blacks have two parents that are constently working "to provide a better life for their child", while not being involved in their education. Then you have alot of inner city families that have either one parent or two parents that constently work to provide for their families.

IMHO anyone that has parents involved with their education will do better than those that do not. It has nothing to do really with poor or rich. If you make time and make a childs education a priority, it doesnt matter if the family is poor, middle class, or wealthy, the child will do better.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
whats sad about this thread is the miss shifted focus.

KIDS are failing, they are quitting on their education and ruining their lives and instead of discussing possible solutions we are discussing ridulous issues.

this is a societal problem.
Yup.....and that was the point. A bunch of semi-functional members of society running amok isn't good for anyone.

btw, i'm sure it's not just young black boys, i'm willing to bet that most boys from single parent families living in the inner cities, black white yellow red or blue are going to have significantly higher drop out rates than their counterparts from middle class suburbia.
Generally true. I think the focus of the article was on black boys as they're statistically the most prominent dropouts. Factor the high birth rate of wedlock and absentee fathers in there for good measure.
i agree. and it probably is primarily a black problem but i'm not sure it's due to their race or racism but due to the way their families are being structured.

many have argued that the coke trade in the inner cities is designed to weaken and destroy the black people. I don't actually believe that there is such a conspiracy, but whethor or not the INTENT is there the effect seems to be the same.

Drugs in the inner city (and i'm not saying all black people are users and/or pushers) but drugs in the inner city and the culture that it has created is effectively destroying the black population in america.

IT is a societal problem whether we middle class want to acknowledge it or not. Plus the whole ILLEGAL drugs thing is reprehensible anyway.

will there always be poor people?? yes, in my opinion there will be. but in the past inner city people had a better shot at a future than they do today.

there is definitely a sense of helplessness in the inner cities.

The problem is, its not just inner cities. Wealthly black students, in affluent wealthly black suburb areas do just as poorly as those in the inner cities. Or atleast thats what some studies have concluded.
i haven't done a study per se, but all the black students i met in college came from middle class homes. i don't remember 1 single black student that i met in college that came from the inner city. that to me is a strong indication that black kids from middle class backgrounds do better in school than black kids from the inner city.

btw, I grew up in atlanta so i knew quite a few black people in middle school / high school.

It all IMHO has to do with parenting, those with parents that involved with their childrens education, do better than those that do not.

Thats the problem, alot of rich blacks have two parents that are constently working "to provide a better life for their child", while not being involved in their education. Then you have alot of inner city families that have either one parent or two parents that constently work to provide for their families.

IMHO anyone that has parents involved with their education will do better than those that do not. It has nothing to do really with poor or rich. If you make time and make a childs education a priority, it doesnt matter if the family is poor, middle class, or wealthy, the child will do better.
Further evidence supporting this theory: remember the Lost Children of Rockdale County story on PBS? A wealthy, mostly white community full of "both parents work" or single parent households (divorce) where there was little/no communication or supervision of the kids. The kids went freaking nuts and were getting wasted constantly, failing school and organizing sex parties. The only reason the freaking parents finally caught on was that a whole mess of the kids were infected with various STDs that they'd passed around.

Just goes to show you that lack of parental involvement will screw up the kids regardless of race or social strata.

 

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