Young Americans: Pay Attention or Pay the Bills

[Queasy]

That's one of the more attention getting headlines I've seen. And, it concerns a bill that would put more tax-payer money toward a money-pit of a program for the sake of political expediency (not that that is anything new).

Link

If you?re in your 20s or 30s, one of the biggest decisions affecting your life likely will be made this fall.

It?s not whether to get married. Or to buy a house. Or even to have and educate children. But it?s a decision that could affect your ability to afford any or all of those things.

That decision, which will be made by Congress, is whether or not to give senior citizens, regardless of income or need, a prescription-drug entitlement in Medicare.

The House and Senate each have approved separate bills that would add a drug entitlement to the already cash-strapped Medicare program. Each bill was initially estimated to cost $400 billion over the next 10 years. New estimates peg them as being far more costly. Still, a Capitol Hill committee is hammering out the differences between the bills, and President Bush has indicated he?ll sign whatever they put before him.

 

[Feldenak]

As a general rule, I detest all socialist programs.

Edit: This is the wrong forum to be discussing this though. It should probably be in Politics & News.

 

[Techie333]

dammit! I am so sick of paying for those old farts outa mah paycheck! 🙁

 

[BatmanNate]

They aren't entitled to jackshit on my bill, they should have to work to pay for it if they need it, or have been working to have saved it, or have private insurance that will cover it.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Edit: This is the wrong forum to be discussing this though.

I wasn't really sure which forum to put in. To me this is about something more than politics. It is about paying attention to the decisions that are made outside of your daily sphere that impact your lives and the future of your children.

Also, the political forum gets bogged down in the same recycled posts from the same people. Just thought this would get a little more play in this forum.

 

[RU482]

oh how the ducks are all getting in a row....down we go

 

[gopunk]

hmmm....

i guess one of my problems is that it's really rare to find a political figure that i agree with. i might agree with them on one part, but then i disagree on another. so what am i going to do? seems like i'm f*cked either way.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'm all for a prescription drug benefit; let's end the ageism here. If I'm paying for said beneift, shoudn't I get access to benefit as well? Damnit, I want the gov't to chip in for my meds as well.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: gopunk
hmmm....

i guess one of my problems is that it's really rare to find a political figure that i agree with. i might agree with them on one part, but then i disagree on another. so what am i going to do? seems like i'm f*cked either way.

One way is to realize that the politicians are supposed to be there to serve you, the constituent. A well thought out written letter sent to your congressman and senator can have an impact. Much much more of an impact than an e-mail, form letter, or phone call. If you sit back and say "F' it. Ain't nuthin I can do" then you aren't letting your thoughts as a constituent be known.

 

[mastertech01]

400 billion over 10 years isnt Jack... Those elders are the ones who built this nation for you and your children to enjoy. Let them die with a little less pain, and with a little respect. There wasnt any whining about the administration giving away more than that in one year in tax rebates!

If they want to make a larger impact, do something about the damned prices of medication, and stop doctors from over prescribing drugs. I still cant believe some people are taking more than a dozen prescriptions each day!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
400 billion over 10 years isnt Jack.

Do you honestly believe that that is all a prescription drug benefit will cost? Every social medical program that the federal government has instituted in the last 25 or so years has spent WAY more than projected. Like 5 to 15 times more. The baby boomers are going to be retiring soon and they outnumber the younger generation.

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
400 billion over 10 years isnt Jack... Those elders are the ones who built this nation for you and your children to enjoy. Let them die with a little less pain, and with a little respect. There wasnt any whining about the administration giving away more than that in one year in tax rebates!

If they want to make a larger impact, do something about the damned prices of medication, and stop doctors from over prescribing drugs. I still cant believe some people are taking more than a dozen prescriptions each day!

I didn't complain about the tax rebate because I believe we are overtaxed to pay for ridiculous entitlement programs. If we would do away with Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Social Security, NEA, farm subsidies, etc... we could actually lower the tax rates and allow people to hang on to their money and spend it as they see fit.

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

They should think more about the future of the nation than the last few years of their lives. Once they retire, what do they do? Play golf and travel the world. Such is our fate should these bills pass. Therefore, I am opposed to these pieces of legislation. I say, invest it in our children who still have almost a hundred years ago so that they can produce long term results rather than what spending it on almost-dead people will bring, no offense.

 

[tcsenter]

This would actually hurt my parents, who would be forced to pay several hundred dollars more per year in Medicare 'copayments', even though they paid lots of money into that system over 50 years.

Because they worked their fingers to the bone for 50 years, pulled themselves out of poverty by saving their money and being frugal, taxed the entire way, they're considered the 'wealthy' from which benefits must be taken in order to give to the poor (people who pissed away their best wage earning years and made bad choices in life).

I suspect that once the millions of retirees who similarly clawed their way out of poverty and managed to make something for themselves find out how much more this will cost them in Medicare 'copayments' so the system can shift benefits to those who pissed away their best wage earning years and made bad choices in life, there will be quite a political fallout.

AARP can be a force to be reckoned with when you piss-off a bunch of old folks with money.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
AARP can be a force to be reckoned with when you piss-off a bunch of old folks with money.

Unfortunately, the AARP is one of the groups pushing for the drug benefit!

 

[tcsenter]

Unfortunately, the AARP is one of the groups pushing for the drug benefit!

That's where the political fall-out would occur first.

 

[EyeMWing]

Heh. /me adds one more tick to the reasons to move to Canada immediately following his 18th birthday.

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: mastertech01
400 billion over 10 years isnt Jack.

Do you honestly believe that that is all a prescription drug benefit will cost? Every social medical program that the federal government has instituted in the last 25 or so years has spent WAY more than projected. Like 5 to 15 times more. The baby boomers are going to be retiring soon and they outnumber the younger generation.

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

Where are your statistics that only a small percentage of seniors cant afford their drugs? I think you are SORELY mistaken. Many of them have to go to Mexico to buy thier drugs, or do without their drugs. Or die because they dont have their drugs.

You think a FEW millionaires, billionaires being eligible will KILL the system? Most of those guys have medical care that MOST seniors would only dream of, and are in fantastic health because of the quality of health care they can afford. You know they are eligible for veterans benefits if they were in the service? Does thier service get NEGATED because they become wealthy? If they were disabled due to service connected injuries should they be ignored because they are rich and famous now? And how many of those high profile people would even consider taking from the welfare programs they are eligible for?

My father, who served our nation during World War II, who worked his @ss off all his life, never broke the law, paid his taxes, paid his dues throughout his life, is on a fixed Social Security income and has NEVER recieved ANY freebies from any agency. But if he ever gets down and out and cant afford a little relief from the pain of his 80+ years of age, I hope you wont deny him one request of some needed medications to ofset some of his suffering.

You might be surprized to know just how many people like him there are left in this country. The OLD GUARD, who believed that bankruptcy was shamefull, not paying your debts and taxes deplorable, and recieving welfare was the very last ditch effort after suffering long and hard and failing all other efforts to find work or working multiple jobs if necessary. The people who survived the Great Depression, The Wars of our nation, and built this nation back up to be the mightiest nation on earth. These old people are soon to become extinct, and they do not deserve to be spat on because of your fear of having to pay for thier medications. They paid for decades for thier turn to be cared for, and it's now OUR TURN.

 

[tcsenter]

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

The same reason you are entitled to a Social Security benefit if you paid into the Social Security system all your life, regardless if you're a millionare.

The system wasn't intended to be operated nor was it sold to the public as a "welfare system". If you pay-in, you are entitled to benefits, regardless of how financially well-off you may be.

In fact, it was deliberately pitched to be the antithesis of a 'welfare system" - you earn benefits by paying-in. It is not a 'gift' from the taxpayer, as welfare is. Its a benefit you earn.

 

[Queasy]

Nothing against your father but his generation is not the one I am worried about.

The 77 million baby boomers will begin retiring in 2011. Eventually, that?ll nearly double the number of people on Medicare. By 2030, the typical household will pay $2,855 for Medicare, according to estimates from The Heritage Foundation. That?s without a drug entitlement. Factor one in, and that number rises to $3,980 per household.

I would much rather see the current medicare system scrapped completely and something better put in its place.

Everyone working in the Capitol (Congressman, Senators, Aides, etc) has an excellent medical plan that provides great coverage and is efficient. Why can't that be the model for the rest of the nation as well?

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

The same reason you are entitled to a Social Security benefit if you paid into the Social Security system all your life, regardless if you're a millionare.

The system wasn't intended to be operated nor was it sold to the public as a "welfare system". If you pay-in, you are entitled to benefits, regardless of how financially well-off you may be.

Haha boy are you a naive little socialist. My mother paid into SS all her life, and now they won't give her any benefits because my dad still has an income.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Heh. /me adds one more tick to the reasons to move to Canada immediately following his 18th birthday.

I hope you're kidding. Overall Canadians are taxed significantly more than Americans. I should know because I've received paychecks in both nations and let me tell you I'm seeing a hell of a lot more of it down in the US 🙂

Increased taxes and social programs do seem to suck, but I'm not really aware of many nations that, on a consistent basis, decrease taxes and social programs. It almost seems like the longer a country is around the more taxes they end up charging their citizens. People get celebratory when the gov't throws $300 at them in returned taxes but in the grand scheme of things they're paying more than they did 20 years ago and less than they will 20 years from now. The only political promise that you can count on a politician keeping is that they'll raise taxes. Even when they lower them it's like a quick sprint on a treadmill; you can't keep it up and basically, run or not, you'll eventually see greater taxes.

What am I talking about?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

The same reason you are entitled to a Social Security benefit if you paid into the Social Security system all your life, regardless if you're a millionare.

The system wasn't intended to be operated nor was it sold to the public as a "welfare system". If you pay-in, you are entitled to benefits, regardless of how financially well-off you may be.

Medicare is meant to be an insurance policy not a welfare benefit. You pay into it just in case you need it just as you would your car insurance or your house insurance. Do the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the world need it? no. Granted, they are an extreme example but the line of upcoming retirees are some of the wealthiest people in the nation. Why give a drug benefit to those that don't need it instead of just those who need help?

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: mastertech01

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: mastertech01
400 billion over 10 years isnt Jack.

Do you honestly believe that that is all a prescription drug benefit will cost? Every social medical program that the federal government has instituted in the last 25 or so years has spent WAY more than projected. Like 5 to 15 times more. The baby boomers are going to be retiring soon and they outnumber the younger generation.

Also, why is a prescription drug benefit given to those who don't need one? Why is the Warren Buffets, Bill Gates, etc of the world eligible for this? Why are those that already have a private prescription drug plan eligible for this? There is a small percentage of senior citizens that can't afford drugs so why isn't a plan tailored toward just them instead of everybody?

Where are your statistics that only a small percentage of seniors cant afford their drugs? I think you are SORELY mistaken. Many of them have to go to Mexico to buy thier drugs, or do without their drugs. Or die because they dont have their drugs.

You think a FEW millionaires, billionaires being eligible will KILL the system? Most of those guys have medical care that MOST seniors would only dream of, and are in fantastic health because of the quality of health care they can afford. You know they are eligible for veterans benefits if they were in the service? Does thier service get NEGATED because they become wealthy? If they were disabled due to service connected injuries should they be ignored because they are rich and famous now? And how many of those high profile people would even consider taking from the welfare programs they are eligible for?

My father, who served our nation during World War II, who worked his @ss off all his life, never broke the law, paid his taxes, paid his dues throughout his life, is on a fixed Social Security income and has NEVER recieved ANY freebies from any agency. But if he ever gets down and out and cant afford a little relief from the pain of his 80+ years of age, I hope you wont deny him one request of some needed medications to ofset some of his suffering.

You might be surprized to know just how many people like him there are left in this country. The OLD GUARD, who believed that bankruptcy was shamefull, not paying your debts and taxes deplorable, and recieving welfare was the very last ditch effort after suffering long and hard and failing all other efforts to find work or working multiple jobs if necessary. The people who survived the Great Depression, The Wars of our nation, and built this nation back up to be the mightiest nation on earth. These old people are soon to become extinct, and they do not deserve to be spat on because of your fear of having to pay for thier medications. They paid for decades for thier turn to be cared for, and it's now OUR TURN.

How high were his taxes? How high were government outlays? (Hint, one was much higher over the course of this century). This is the problem, everyone wants to have benefits, but when your father was paying taxes, the usage and cost of prescription meds was way lower than it is now, ie now that its "our turn", our ante is growing, and I dont see my money that is getting spent on SS and other benefits that primarily affect senior citizens being there for me when I turn 65+, unless the USA goes to socialism, or at least mimics their programs and taxes. I look at it from this perspective (to possibly de-muddle the previous run-on sentence):

-social security in its current form will not be around when I turn 65, either SS taxes will have to go way up, SS benefits will have to be delayed by a lot, or SS benefits will have to go down quite a bit.
-I am not likely to see much of a return on my SS "investment" (ie initially SS paid 10 for every 1 you put it, when I retire it will (if it sticks as close as possible to current system) pay 11 for every 10 [in real dollars])
-In the mean time, Congress, aka AARP's b!tch, is passing legislation that, while it may help current legislators to get re-elected, is screwing the country in the long run. In 30 years, if this program is started, stays on projected budget (lol!), and continues for all 30 years, what is it going to cost? Is it feasible to continue it through, say, 60 years, when I'll really need (statistically speaking) prescription meds?

IMO, Congress needs to do two things that, while politically stupid, are for the good of the country:
-raise taxes (as little as possible)
-cut spending (and tacking on a $40B/yr program aint helping)
until at least we have a balanced budget.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Heh. /me adds one more tick to the reasons to move to Canada immediately following his 18th birthday.

you are a dumb $hit, canada taxes the hell out of its citizens, i would never want to live there.