You would think that disclosing employee status is kind of important in a job listing

[SunnyD]

A couple months ago my wife came across a post on the local town newspaper's facebook page that they were looking for someone to deliver newspapers to those boxes scattered around town. Mind you, this is a once-a-week thing for the free weekly rag. My wife was looking for something to supplement the growing grocery budget, since... well... teenagers. Anyway, she scored an interview and went in. Unfortunately she didn't get the job at the time.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. My wife gets a message from the person at the newspaper asking if she'd like to come in for another interview. Apparently the previous person didn't last very long? Neither here nor there, but yeah! She goes in, they give her the lowdown, and basically tell her "You're hired!" My wife is happy... the money is decent, the job sucks wake up at midnight, drive around town for hours tossing the papers into the boxes.

Now the fun part... the first paycheck hits. Direct deposit, which is cool. In the EXACT amount what she was quoted that she would be paid. Red flag #2. (Red flag #1 was when they said "Oh, shouldn't take you more than 4 or 5 hours..." and the second week still took 9 hours) I started talking it over with my wife and told her it sounded like they had her hired as an independent contractor, not an employee. My first question actually was whether she filled out a W4 while she interviewed, which she did not. Obviously, my wife had no clue what all this meant, so I had to explain to her what this all mean in terms of her being responsible for her own taxes and expenses and whatnot. So she decided it would be best to ask the employer exactly what was going on, just in case they screwed up.

All of a sudden this "decent" paycheck for one day of work every week turned into one hell of a headache and dwindled into the "It's not worth it" category.

But long story short, the employer in this case never once informed the potential employee that they would NOT actually be an employee, but rather a contractor. For a position like this, where you're going to get people like my wife (generally a person who will be picking up a small part time job without any notion of what the ramifications are), pretty damn uncool. It's no wonder why they aren't keeping people.

tl;dr version:
- Wife interviewed for job
- Was never told she would be an independent contractor when "hired"
- Got first paycheck with nothing taken out of it
- We went "Oh, this ain't cool bro."

 

[hans007]

I would assume a lot of people could do this job who also had another job given its at midnight.


Don't you just fill a 1099 out? Im pretty sure they didn't do anything illegal.

 

[SunnyD]

I would assume a lot of people could do this job who also had another job given its at midnight.


Don't you just fill a 1099 out? Im pretty sure they didn't do anything illegal.

I'm sure they didn't do anything illegal either. It is kinda crap that you're taking a person who likely has no idea what it means to be an independent contractor and not even mentioning to them that they will essentially be self-employed and responsible for all of their own taxes and whatnot.

Think about it. Your typical person is going to just get this job, be all "Oh, sweet paycheck", and come end of year file their taxes and end up with penalties for underpaying their withholdings.

 

[Sluggo]

So being a contractor she gets to take deductions for gasoline and car maintenance, which for the amount of money is going to be about the same as taxes? Sounds like it will all just about some out even in the long run.

 

[NutBucket]

The employer provides the 1099. You are responsible for estimated taxes, etc. That said, at least you would write off gas money and wear & tear on the car as a business expense. Might not be too bad in the end?

EDIT: But yes, it definitely should have been stated in the listing or at least disclosed during the interview.

 

[Jeraden]

It's a trade off between paying the extra self-employment/employer SS tax vs being able to write off your mileage/use of car. If you are filing jointly and she's making little enough, there shouldn't be a need to pay estimated quarterly taxes as you'd still fall well under the underwithholding penalty limit.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm confused at the part that says "Obviously, my wife had no clue what all this meant".

You make it sound like it's normal to not know. Every adult should know what a W4 is. Even teenagers flipping burgers know what a w4 is. Has she really never had a job to know what it is?

 

[edro]

Request to be paid in cash. Don't claim income. Win-Win.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It's not exactly morally ethical but they didn't do anything illegal.

 

[SunnyD]

I'm confused at the part that says "Obviously, my wife had no clue what all this meant".

You make it sound like it's normal to not know. Every adult should know what a W4 is. Even teenagers flipping burgers know what a w4 is. Has she really never had a job to know what it is?

My wife has been a stay-at-home mom for the better part of the last 13 years. It's been a while since she's done this. But to clarify, my wife, like most normal potential employees, would have no clue what is required of being self-employed. Yes, it's not rocket science. But in the case of someone picking up a one-day a week side job, in this case it amounts to far more effort than it is worth.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

My wife has been a stay-at-home mom for the better part of the last 13 years. It's been a while since she's done this. But to clarify, my wife, like most normal potential employees, would have no clue what is required of being self-employed. Yes, it's not rocket science. But in the case of someone picking up a one-day a week side job, in this case it amounts to far more effort than it is worth.

It sounds like she didn't ask for details on pay, which is what gives it away.

It's something to watch for with small businesses.... "Oh you should make somewhere around $200 a day" is not the same as "You will be paid $xx/hour"


Again, not ethical, but it is an employee's responsibility to make sure their pay is correct.

 

[CPA]

The employer provides the 1099. You are responsible for estimated taxes, etc. That said, at least you would write off gas money and wear & tear on the car as a business expense. Might not be too bad in the end?

EDIT: But yes, it definitely should have been stated in the listing or at least disclosed during the interview.

You're not writing off anything, you're reducing the amount of taxable income from this work. The only way this benefits is if 1) there is still enough taxed income that your per hour rate makes it worth it or 2) you have enough business loss that the impact on the household income makes it worth it.

Breaking even is a net loss.

 

[SunnyD]

It sounds like she didn't ask for details on pay, which is what gives it away.

It's something to watch for with small businesses.... "Oh you should make somewhere around $200 a day" is not the same as "You will be paid $xx/hour"


Again, not ethical, but it is an employee's responsibility to make sure their pay is correct.

No argument. They said the pay was a flat amount per week. The assumption was there would be taxes and whatnot taken out. You know what they say about assuming.

I've already admitted as much that my wife was uninformed (obviously) about the red flags that would have alerted her to the situation. Still, a little bit of courtesy helps.

You're not writing off anything, you're reducing the amount of taxable income from this work. The only way this benefits is if 1) there is still enough taxed income that your per hour rate makes it worth it or 2) you have enough business loss that the impact on the household income makes it worth it.

Breaking even is a net loss.

^^ Exactly. Between the amount made, the nature/hours of the job, what deductions would be available, and the amount of effort required to simply make all that viable, it's just not worth it for her to continue.

 

[purbeast0]

wow your story telling skills are terrible. still not sure wtf i read.

but my favorite part is when you mentioned red flag 2 before even talking about the first one, then put it in parenthesis afterwards.

 

[SunnyD]

wow your story telling skills are terrible. still not sure wtf i read.

but my favorite part is when you mentioned red flag 2 before even talking about the first one, then put it in parenthesis afterwards.

Red Flag #1 was mostly irrelevant. But I figured someone like you would complain about it, so I put it in as an afterthought.

 

[darkxshade]

Your wife wanting to work should be the biggest red flag :ninja:

 

[SKORPI0]

Red Flag#1 - The previous person who had this job didn't last very long. ^_^

That would have raise questions on my part asking why/WTF happened?
An extra once a week job would be nice to have, but is it worth the hassle?
Make it clear cut and ask what the job expectations are(area of coverage for newspapers delivered), how much you're gonna be paid and in what form.

Good luck.

 

[cronos]

Around here all newspaper delivery persons are hired as an independent contractor, and therefore no tax was taken. I'm not sure how it is everywhere else.

I think they're assuming that your wife already knows, while she's assuming that she's hired as an employee

 

[DrPizza]

If it took 9 hours the second week, and they're claiming 4 to 5 hours, then she's only making half as much per hour as she expected. (And likely, the fuel & other expenses are higher than expected.)

Compared to a minimum wage job, working two 5 hour shifts a week, to make the paper delivery worth it, it should be $10 per hour (I'm considering a shift differential there, since it's overnight), plus at least $1-$2 per mile. I know that reimbursement for mileage is typically around 50 cents per mile, but there's a hell of a lot more wear and tear on a vehicle making stops every 100 feet rather than cruising down a highway at 65.

If she wouldn't bother with a minimum wage job, then scale up that $10 per hour to something higher.