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You know what's depressing?

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
I paid $119.99 for my 5770 last summer, $99.99 after MIR. The 5770 essentially falls between the 7750 and the 7770. The 7750 is better in some ways, but worse in others.

You know what's the best price you can get for a 7750 on Newegg? $89.99, after MIR. And this is after a couple suggested retail price drops for the 7750.

The $100 price point didn't budge with AMD introducing 28 nm. This makes me sad. :(
 

tulx

Senior member
Jul 12, 2011
257
2
71
What can I say - welcome to the crazy depreciation rates of computer hardware. This is a very fast-moving industry, components become outperfomed and outdated very fast, plus - they have a relatively short expected lifespan. This adds up to the fact that most harware looses almost all of its value in just a few years.

I've stopped caring about it and stopped trying to keep up with the "newest end best". As long as I can play my favourite game on max settings with acceptable FPS, I'm fine.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,242
494
126
components become outperfomed and outdated very fast, plus - they have a relatively short expected lifespan. This adds up to the fact that most harware looses almost all of its value in just a few years.
This is actually the opposite of what the OP is saying

It's been a year and price has NOT dropped and performance has NOT increased despite a new generation of cards being released.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Yeah, and if there's a bright spot in all of this it means I shouldn't get too shabby of a price for my 5770 when I sell it.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
1
0
Your right the 5770 is a tiny bit ahead of the 7750.
Its about ~4% faster than a 7750, and about ~22% slower than a 7770.





The $100 price point didn't budge with AMD introducing 28 nm. This makes me sad. :(
You can get a 7770 for ~109$.
Which is about 22% faster, so the peformance/price even at 100$ price point did move up.
The 7750 is just not as good value as the 7770. The price between the two cards is very small, but the performance is 26%+ (for like ~10$ more).


On the other side look what nvidia gives you for 100$:



^ Geforce 640 ~ 100$

in a game that favors nvidia, the 640 is getting a royal arse kicking by the 7750,
not even to mention the 7770. Its like this in pretty much everything else.

So nvidia gives much much worse value at 100$. I guess thats just as depressing right?
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Your right the 5770 is a tiny bit ahead of the 7750.
Its about ~4% faster than a 7750, and about ~22% slower than a 7770.

*snip*



You can get a 7770 for ~109$.
Which is about 22% faster, so the peformance/price even at 100$ price point did move up.
The 7750 is just not as good value as the 7770. The price between the two cards is very small, but the performance is 26%+ (for like ~10$ more).


On the other side look what nvidia gives you for 100$:

*snip*

^ Geforce 640 ~ 100$

in a game that favors nvidia, the 640 is getting a royal arse kicking by the 7750,
not even to mention the 7770. Its like this in pretty much everything else.

So nvidia gives much much worse value at 100$. I guess thats just as depressing right?
The cheapest 7770 is $119 on Newegg, $109 with MIR. So yeah, it is a bit better than the 5770, but the price/performance ratio really hasn't improved. Maybe just a little bit. The 7750 really should drop in price. It's just not a $100 card; it's essentially this generation's successor to the 6670 or 5670, AMD's past contenders at the ~$80 price point. But AMD has no real reason to drop the 7750's price, since...

Nvidia's competition, the GT 640, is just embarassing. Really? A $100 video card with DDR3 memory in 2012? That's not just keeping the bar where it was before, that's lowering the bar. The 640 gets its butt kicked up and down not only by the 7750, but previous generation cards like the Geforce 450, Radeon 5770, 5750, and often even the GDDR5 6670. I was hoping that Nvidia might drop the 640's price to make room for the 650, but there's no sign of that. Instead, Nvidia seems content to sell the 650 at the same price point as the 7770, even though the 7770 clearly has superior performance in reviews.

Indeed, the ~$100 market for this generation is depressing. :(
 
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f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
2,243
0
0
GT 640 does not compete with 7750/7770

That would be GTX 650 and upcoming 650 Ti or what-ever-the-name will be
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
1
0
@Fisherman

Price wise it does, which is how to determine what competes against what.

Fact of the matter is the 640 is the competition to the 7750.
And there is a ~50% differnce in performance there.

Yet I bet those 640's are selling well enough, because nvidia fanboys rather use nvidia than get 50%
more performance for the same price.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
GT 640 does not compete with 7750/7770

That would be GTX 650 and upcoming 650 Ti or what-ever-the-name will be
You're right, the GT 640 most certainly does not compete with the 7750 in performance. But it's priced the same. If it can't compete, it shouldn't be at the same price point.

but the 7750 consumes 40W less though.
True, but it's not like the 5770 was a power guzzler in the first place. The 7750 can also rather easily be squeezed onto a low-profile PCB. The 7750 has several advantages over the 5770; it's not like AMD made it for nothing. But raw gaming performance is not one of those advantages.
 

f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
2,243
0
0
GTX 650 MSRP: $109
HD7750 MSRP: $109

For any differences with above prices you should really speak to resellers.
It's not anyone's fault that they can't sell AMD at those prices, or that they can overcharge for NV.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
The cheapest 7770 is $119 on Newegg, $109 with MIR. So yeah, it is a bit better than the 5770, but the price/performance ratio really hasn't improved.
Dude. A 7770 is about the same as a 6850 after newest drivers, which is a 40% improvement over the 5770/6770. Don't dismiss that as if it were a 10% advantage. I remember a year ago, 5770/6770s were going for about $80-100 after rebate. Call it $90. A 7770 at $110 after rebate is 22% higher price, but 40% faster, AND it's actually less than 22% higher price because it's more energy efficient. It looks like at typical gaming loads it draws 15-20w less than a 5770, and after accounting for PSU inefficiency it is probably about ~20w less on average. Plus lower idle draw (albeit not by much).

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/24.html

That said, progress has been kind of slow... a whole year to modestly improve price/perf and power draw is lame by historical GPU industry standards.
 

NickelPlate

Senior member
Nov 9, 2006
652
12
81
As far as hardware/price depreciation is concerned, don't feel bad. I have you beat in a big way. I just got the major shaft after my recent new build just 4 weeks ago it's downright comical. But my old system was dying hard and I didn't have time to wait around for promos and specials.

Shaft 1 - I bought my GTX670 one day before Nvidia starts the free Borderlands 2 promo. Amazon won't give me a code and I'm past the return period. Probably wouldn't return it anyway just for the free game. Shaft value = $59.99

Shaft 2 - One week after I buy my MB/RAM/CPU Newegg runs a promo for the exact same motherboard and free 8GB DDR3 RAM for $109.99. I paid $119.99 and $46.99 for the MB/RAM respectively. Shaft value = $56.99 I'm still within the return window but it's just too much trouble to gut my PC, send all the stuff back and rebuild again.

Shaft 3 - Two weeks after I buy my CPU, Amazon drops the price $20.

Shaft 4 - Amazon drops the price on the Hyper 212 EVO $10 about the same time as the CPU.

Prices have gone back up to what I paid since and the B2 promo is over soon. In total I got shafted for almost $150. Leave it to my luck to buy right before the optimal window on my first major build upgrade in years. Now that's depressing but I'm still pleased as punch with the system which is all that matters in the end.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,618
2,726
136
Dude. A 7770 is about the same as a 6850 after newest drivers, which is a 40% improvement over the 5770/6770. Don't dismiss that as if it were a 10% advantage. I remember a year ago, 5770/6770s were going for about $80-100 after rebate. Call it $90. A 7770 at $110 after rebate is 22% higher price, but 40% faster, AND it's actually less than 22% higher price because it's more energy efficient. It looks like at typical gaming loads it draws 15-20w less than a 5770, and after accounting for PSU inefficiency it is probably about ~20w less on average. Plus lower idle draw (albeit not by much).

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/24.html

That said, progress has been kind of slow... a whole year to modestly improve price/perf and power draw is lame by historical GPU industry standards.

On February HD7770 was faster than HD5770 by 23%

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/26.html


On July HD7770 was faster than the HD5770 by 19%

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Club_3D/HD_7850_RoyalQueen/28.html


Where did you see that HD7770 is 40% faster than HD5770/6770 ??
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
The HD4870 is on par with the HD5770 and you can pick one of those up for <$50, sometimes less. I'm running a pair of cards from 2007 and not really feeling the hurt yet, because in games that scale well (which includes all that I play) I'm around a stock HD7850 in performance.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
And yet you can't use DirectX 11 feautures and some other image and video processing features at all.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
The 640 is targeted to htpc folks and users with larger screens or clusters of screens, not towards gamers. The 640 does not need an external pcie connector like the 7770 does. The 640 is a joke in games, but does well with other tasks. The 650 is only 10 bucks more than the 640 and wipes the floor with it in games, so that's the true competition.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I paid $119.99 for my 5770 last summer, $99.99 after MIR. The 5770 essentially falls between the 7750 and the 7770. The 7750 is better in some ways, but worse in others.

You know what's the best price you can get for a 7750 on Newegg? $89.99, after MIR. And this is after a couple suggested retail price drops for the 7750.

The $100 price point didn't budge with AMD introducing 28 nm. This makes me sad. :(
5xxx was just amazing all-around.
 

bleucharm28

Senior member
Sep 27, 2008
494
1
76
Just get a GTX 680 or ATi 7970 used or new and call it good for couple of years. Maybe even 3 years. Chances are the games you currently playing will be just fine for next 3 years.
 

The_Golden_Man

Senior member
Apr 7, 2012
816
0
0
I have 2x 5770's Crossfire in my secondary computer. Scores about the same as a GTX 570 in 3DMark11. Not too shabby.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
On February HD7770 was faster than HD5770 by 23%

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/26.html


On July HD7770 was faster than the HD5770 by 19%

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Club_3D/HD_7850_RoyalQueen/28.html


Where did you see that HD7770 is 40% faster than HD5770/6770 ??
Your charts are outdated; e.g., the July TPU 7770 review used Cat 12.3 drivers, NOT 12.7beta which was the driver that gave more performance.

Nevertheless, I apparently misremembered... actual differential is more like 27%:

Let's take one of the TPU reviews using Cat 12.7beta drivers: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_660/27.html
Unfortunately there isn't a 5770 on the chart, but there is a 6670. 57/30 = 1.9x the speed of 6670

Now look at: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_670/28.html showing the 5770 to be 36/24 = 1.5x the speed of 6670

1.9/1.5 = 27% faster

However, in newer games the 7770 should be better able to drive fps and frametimes, particularly in tessellated games, so in those games the delta is probably more than 27%, like 30-40% faster.
 

thelastjuju

Senior member
Nov 6, 2011
444
2
0
Probably because until the next generation of consoles rolls out, there aren't going to be any game changers in PC visuals like we grew accustomed to in past generations.

Seems like if you were to graph PC graphics improvements year by year, we've almost flat-lined since 2007-2008.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
817
126
The cost of a video card is made of much more than the GPU chip itself. All the other costs have not changed, therefore you may not see much improvement in cost / perf.

Look at it this way. Take the CPU of your choice, and pair it with a motherboard. What has been the cost / perf with that combo the last year?
 

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