you go back, jack, and do it again - Police in Ohio are investigating a group that recruited for a plot to arrest Gov. Mike DeWine for tyranny

[Jhhnn]

doesn’t justify looting, arson and anarchy, which also included criminal assault
Whataboutism. COVID-19 is rising up the charts as a leading cause of death, doesn’t mean I should start smoking.

Claim whataboutism. Introduce some of your own.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Trumpist fearmongering. They didn't burn down any cities. Right wing agent provocateurs played their part & likely more that is undiscovered-

‘Boogaloo Boi’ charged in fire of Minneapolis police precinct during George Floyd protest

Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the building

www.theguardian.com

It’s a conspiracy! I already acknowledged that Boogaloos were agitators, but they didn’t agitate every riot...the anarchists you like to pretend don’t exist did just fine on their own.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Claim whataboutism. Introduce some of your own.

Elaborate, not for me, for the peanut gallery.

 

[soundforbjt]

It’s a conspiracy! I already acknowledged that Boogaloos were agitators, but they didn’t agitate every riot...the anarchists you like to pretend don’t exist did just fine on their own.

How do you know this as fact?

 

[MrSquished]

doesn’t justify looting, arson and anarchy, which also included criminal assault
Whataboutism. COVID-19 is rising up the charts as a leading cause of death, doesn’t mean I should start smoking.

I'm not justifying anarchy and arson, they should all be caught and prosecuted, I'm saying it was a small percentage of the protests, got way way oversized coverage compared to the peaceful people, and Republicans spread massive propaganda about it that you are partially buying into.

Our cities are burning!

Literally the Portland fire chief had to make an announcement to counter Trump's claim that Portland was ablaze: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...tes-trump-claim-we-are-not-ablaze-in-portland

You are contributing to Trump's narrative.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm not justifying anarchy and arson, they should all be caught and prosecuted, I'm saying it was a small percentage of the protests, got way way oversized coverage compared to the peaceful people, and Republicans spread massive propaganda about it that you are partially buying into.

Our cities are burning!

Literally the Portland fire chief had to make an announcement to counter Trump's claim that Portland was ablaze: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...tes-trump-claim-we-are-not-ablaze-in-portland

You are contributing to Trump's narrative.

No, the people who engaged in looting, arson and anarchy contributed to Trump’s narrative.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No, the people who engaged in looting, arson and anarchy contributed to Trump’s narrative.

I'll take one whataboutism point here, but I think it's worth it:

You seem very concerned with property damage. What about armed groups storming a state capitol or literally plotting to kidnap a governor? And the president who seems to encourage this behavior? See "liberate michigan!" tweet

 

[MrSquished]

No, the people who engaged in looting, arson and anarchy contributed to Trump’s narrative.

You just basically said it's completely cool for Trump and his henchmen to lie at will in order to manipulate a populace based on massively exaggerating current events and creating fictional parallel narratives next to them, and it's all other people's fault. That's obscene.

 

[MrSquished]

No, the people who engaged in looting, arson and anarchy contributed to Trump’s narrative.

To add to what I said above, you are literally saying that Trump can fabricate things with the singular goal of massively inflaming domestic tensions to the point a local safety official has to come out and refute him and it's not Trump's fault at all. Are you sure you aren't a fascist?

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'll take one whataboutism point here, but I think it's worth it:

You seem very concerned with property damage. What about armed groups storming a state capitol or literally plotting to kidnap a governor? And the president who seems to encourage this behavior? See "liberate michigan!" tweet

Lock every single one of them up, and enact more strict gun control laws so that irrational armed citizens don't have the ability to warp the Constitutional meaning of militia.

 

[Starbuck1975]

To add to what I said above, you are literally saying that Trump can fabricate things with the singular goal of massively inflaming domestic tensions to the point a local safety official has to come out and refute him and it's not Trump's fault at all. Are you sure you aren't a fascist?

The fascism card is tiresome and over played to the point that its rendered meaningless. Trump didn’t fabricate the anarchy, he exploited it.

 

[MrSquished]

The fascism card is tiresome and over played to the point that its rendered meaningless. Trump didn’t fabricate the anarchy, he exploited it.

Um no. He literally fabricated it to the point the City Fire Chief had to make a statement refuting it. You are choosing a really stupid hill to die on for Trump's batshit crazy lying, stoking and inflaming division, extreme exaggeration to the point it becomes pure propaganda.

You are excusing Trump's lies that he is using in order to drum up support for more authoritarian rule, which is, in fact, the very definition of fascism.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Um no. He literally fabricated it to the point the City Fire Chief had to make a statement refuting it. You are choosing a really stupid hill to die on for Trump's batshit crazy lying, stoking and inflaming division, extreme exaggeration to the point it becomes pure propaganda.

You are excusing Trump's lies that he is using in order to drum up support for more authoritarian rule, which is, in fact, the very definition of fascism.

What is the metric you use to draw the line between propaganda versus a true problem that’s simply being politically exploited?

 

[Jhhnn]

What is the metric you use to draw the line between propaganda versus a true problem that’s simply being politically exploited?

The line between fact & fiction.

PolitiFact - ‘We are not on fire’: Authorities dispute Trump’s false claim about Portland

The whole city of Portland, Ore., is not on fire, despite President Donald Trump’s claim that "the entire city is ablaze

www.politifact.com

 

[MrSquished]

What is the metric you use to draw the line between propaganda versus a true problem that’s simply being politically exploited?

I can't find a single report of a single building burning down in Portland from the protests. Maybe there was one? There were multiple attempts to start fires, again by a minority of the overall protestors, in one single Federal courthouse. Nothing caught on fire. Multiple news reports of people in Portland saying life was going on as normal save for a tiny teensy area of it. And I posted the literal Fire Chief having to make a statement to refute the PRESIDENT's OWN WORDS. You know, the supposed leader of the United States of America who's literal job is to do the opposite of sowing division and lying about things so dramatically.

Do you think that if a some protestors in NYC lit a few trash cans on fire and tried to roll them at the Empire State Building and nothing happened that it would be fine if the president said NYC IS ABLAZE to the point that the Fire Chief had to come out and say it was bullshit?

I literally saw people on social media claiming our cities were ablaze and Trump was going to save them. Do you think that they are the victims of propaganda? Since you seem to be arguing that Trump and his henchmen and media outlets did nothing wrong, where do you think these people got the idea that many cities were literal dystopian hellholes burning to the ground?

I mean what are you failing to grasp here?

 

[Jhhnn]

I can't find a single report of a single building burning down in Portland from the protests. Maybe there was one? There were multiple attempts to start fires, again by a minority of the overall protestors, in one single Federal courthouse. Nothing caught on fire. Multiple news reports of people in Portland saying life was going on as normal save for a tiny teensy area of it. And I posted the literal Fire Chief having to make a statement to refute the PRESIDENT's OWN WORDS. You know, the supposed leader of the United States of America who's literal job is to do the opposite of sowing division and lying about things so dramatically.

Do you think that if a some protestors in NYC lit a few trash cans on fire and tried to roll them at the Empire State Building and nothing happened that it would be fine if the president said NYC IS ABLAZE to the point that the Fire Chief had to come out and say it was bullshit?

I literally saw people on social media claiming our cities were ablaze and Trump was going to save them. Do you think that they are the victims of propaganda? Since you seem to be arguing that Trump and his henchmen and media outlets did nothing wrong, where do you think these people got the idea that many cities were literal dystopian hellholes burning to the ground?

I mean what are you failing to grasp here?

Not the federal courthouse. There were several fires, all small, nothing like what happened in Minneapolis. But Trump had to make it about Portland, because antifas, of course.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I can't find a single report of a single building burning down in Portland from the protests. Maybe there was one? There were multiple attempts to start fires, again by a minority of the overall protestors, in one single Federal courthouse. Nothing caught on fire. Multiple news reports of people in Portland saying life was going on as normal save for a tiny teensy area of it. And I posted the literal Fire Chief having to make a statement to refute the PRESIDENT's OWN WORDS. You know, the supposed leader of the United States of America who's literal job is to do the opposite of sowing division and lying about things so dramatically.

Do you think that if a some protestors in NYC lit a few trash cans on fire and tried to roll them at the Empire State Building and nothing happened that it would be fine if the president said NYC IS ABLAZE to the point that the Fire Chief had to come out and say it was bullshit?

I literally saw people on social media claiming our cities were ablaze and Trump was going to save them. Do you think that they are the victims of propaganda? Since you seem to be arguing that Trump and his henchmen and media outlets did nothing wrong, where do you think these people got the idea that many cities were literal dystopian hellholes burning to the ground?

I mean what are you failing to grasp here?

Not failing to grasp anything, I simply and respectfully disagree with where you’ve chosen to place emphasis

 

[MrSquished]

Not failing to grasp anything, I simply and respectfully disagree with where you’ve chosen to place emphasis

You should probably let the feds know that the Portland Fire Chief is probably an antifa plant trying to contradict dear leaders rhetoric, also all the local news media that didn't report all the fake fires Trump was talking about, and the vast majority of Portlanders that went about living their lives normally and didn't pretend they were in a dystopian hellhole. all Antifa plants or sympathizers at least.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You should probably let the feds know that the Portland Fire Chief is probably an antifa plant trying to contradict dear leaders rhetoric, also all the local news media that didn't report all the fake fires Trump was talking about, and the vast majority of Portlanders that went about living their lives normally and didn't pretend they were in a dystopian hellhole. all Antifa plants or sympathizers at least.

Antifa is a boogeyman. Anarchy unfortunately is real.

 

[MrSquished]

Antifa is a boogeyman. Anarchy unfortunately is real.

I'm sorry, I can't keep up with which of Trump's propaganda you are good with. So Antifa is bad fake Trump propaganda, but saying Portland is ablaze (and it's implied that is due to Antifa leftists) is ok.

 

[nickqt]

I'm sorry, I can't keep up with which of Trump's propaganda you are good with. So Antifa is bad fake Trump propaganda, but saying Portland is ablaze (and it's implied that is due to Antifa leftists) is ok.

Right-wing authoritarian militias are out there killing cops, inciting riots, and plotting to kidnap and murder Democrats.

So, in order for the BothSidesDoIt™ lie to land, he has to point his finger at some kind of left-winger. Without having any to actually point at, he just makes them up out of whole cloth, hence, "anarchists". Left-wing anarchists are doin' it, because we have named right-wing authoritarian militias that have admitted and been arrested for doin' it.

It's all about "balance".

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm sorry, I can't keep up with which of Trump's propaganda you are good with. So Antifa is bad fake Trump propaganda, but saying Portland is ablaze (and it's implied that is due to Antifa leftists) is ok.

No, I am saying its quite possible to dismiss Trump but also acknowledge that anarchy is part of the problem. The mayors of Chicago and Portland certainly got a taste of what you call propaganda, they didn’t like it very much.

 

[MrSquished]

No, I am saying its quite possible to dismiss Trump but also acknowledge that anarchy is part of the problem. The mayors of Chicago and Portland certainly got a taste of what you call propaganda, they didn’t like it very much.

I never claimed anarchy wasn't a part of the problem. I just think it's a relatively small part of the problem that gets a massively huge part of the coverage. You had 15-26 million people taking part in BLM protests as per estimates. If even just 10% were anarchists (again, anarchists aren't Democrats) you would have had somewhere around 2 million people trashing cities and yes indeed you would have had large swaths of cities burning down. The anarchists suck, the right wing instigators suck, but at least that shit is local - Trump , his henchmen and the media that enables themn really really suck because they spread that propaganda to the entire country.

I can't believe a Fire Chief of a major US metropolitan city had to call out the American president for lying about the safety in the city limits because the president had authoritarian political motives.

 

[MrSquished]

I do support those that took down actual Confederate monuments though. That property damage is approved.