YOU be the manager!

[kranky]

In one department, all the people are extremely knowledgable and experienced. One person in particular, Donna, is the in-house expert on one key customer's projects. Donna is going to be retiring in a few years and since projects can take 2-3 years to complete, it's necessary to start now to get someone else trained up to her level. Other people are able do the work on that customer's projects, but Donna can find and resolve problems early that others can't.

Donna has one bad trait - she can't admit that she ever makes a mistake. So when the rare mistake is brought up to her, she'll give you a reason (or 4) why what happened wasn't her fault. She doesn't point fingers at others, just makes sure to tell you it wasn't her fault.

Now Mary is being assigned to work with Donna on a new project so Mary can learn what Donna knows. I know from experience that Donna will act cooperative but will withhold knowledge. Basically, she'll help Mary learn more, but not *much* more. Donna will make attempts to explain things in such a confusing way that when Mary can't follow it, Donna can say, "I tried, but Mary doesn't seem to get it." These are complex projects so there are literally hundreds of little bits of knowledge involved.

My solution is to tell Donna that her work performance will be measured based on how much Mary learns. If Mary doesn't know everything Donna does in 2 years, then Donna has failed. Donna feels this is completely unfair and she can't be held accountable for what Mary does. If I don't do this, then I can guarantee Mary will not learn everything.

What do you think?

 

[leftyman]

I think I am glad I dont work with any women.

 

[Linflas]

I think Mary needs to be the kind of person that is patient enough to coax all the knowledge she can possibly get out of Donna without alienating her. That is about the best you can hope for in a situation like this. Further Mary should be assured that her performance evals will not be dependent on Donna's snide comments and remarks. I think confronting Donna directly regarding this will be counter productive unless her retirement plans are at significant risk.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: kranky
In one department, all the people are extremely knowledgable and experienced. One person in particular, Donna, is the in-house expert on one key customer's projects. Donna is going to be retiring in a few years and since projects can take 2-3 years to complete, it's necessary to start now to get someone else trained up to her level. Other people are able do the work on that customer's projects, but Donna can find and resolve problems early that others can't.

Donna has one bad trait - she can't admit that she ever makes a mistake. So when the rare mistake is brought up to her, she'll give you a reason (or 4) why what happened wasn't her fault. She doesn't point fingers at others, just makes sure to tell you it wasn't her fault.

Now Mary is being assigned to work with Donna on a new project so Mary can learn what Donna knows. I know from experience that Donna will act cooperative but will withhold knowledge. Basically, she'll help Mary learn more, but not *much* more. Donna will make attempts to explain things in such a confusing way that when Mary can't follow it, Donna can say, "I tried, but Mary doesn't seem to get it." These are complex projects so there are literally hundreds of little bits of knowledge involved.

My solution is to tell Donna that her work performance will be measured based on how much Mary learns. If Mary doesn't know everything Donna does in 2 years, then Donna has failed. Donna feels this is completely unfair and she can't be held accountable for what Mary does. If I don't do this, then I can guarantee Mary will not learn everything.

What do you think?

I think your solution is correct. Employees will always feel their bosses are unfair, but when push comes to shove we will do what is told. Only issue I see is that because she is retiring she may not care about her performance review! Maybe offer a considerable financial incentive if her knowledge is that valuable to you.

 

[nanette1985]

There's no way to change Donna at this point. You really have to get her out of there as soon as possible. She's sabotaging you. You're going to have to deal with the consequences sooner or later, might as well be soon. If you have new projects she shouldn't be anywhere near them.

Mary will NEVER be allowed by Donna to learn what Donna knows, and Donna will be teaching "her" customers that Mary is an idiot - this is worse than you realize. She is setting you up. Accept it up front and nip this disaster in the bud. I repeat, get rid of Donna - and do it without letting her know in advance, and don't let her go back to her office/desk/computer after firing or reassigning, in 99 percent of cases I've run into this person is hoarding confidential information.

Unless, of course, as a manager you will be out of there before Donna leaves - then you can pass the mess on to the new person :beer:.

This is a fairly common problem and it has nothing to do with gender.

 

[shiner]

Fire them both and hire a man to do the job.

:evil:

 

[MrChad]

How certain are you that the issue is on Donna's end and not Mary's? princess ida's sabotage theory is certainly possible, but it seems strange that Donna would be withholding information unless she didn't want to leave and felt that she was at risk of being replaced. Assuming this retirement is voluntary, I don't understand why she would be uncooperative.

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: kranky
My solution is to tell Donna that her work performance will be measured based on how much Mary learns. If Mary doesn't know everything Donna does in 2 years, then Donna has failed. Donna feels this is completely unfair and she can't be held accountable for what Mary does. If I don't do this, then I can guarantee Mary will not learn everything.

What do you think?

First off, I think Donna is a bitch and needs to be forced into early retirement.

Secondly, why would Donna give a shit if Mary learns or not? She is retiring right? See, Donna wants to leave the company with the thought that they are losing this great employee, which may be true, but in reality you are only losing an uptight, bitchy, control freak.

Best of luck to you and Mary. :thumbsup:

 

[fleshconsumed]

You didn't say how smart Mary is. It is possible she can't learn. Some people just can't learn. In which case it would be unfair to lay the blame on Donna. Or maybe Mary is smart, but just doesn't have enough technical knowledge to to understand the existing project. I don't know what field are you in, but it's like explaining complex solution to a new graduate, he may have studied OOP, and he may kind of understand it, but it is still not in his blood, so when you start explaining complex solution to him, he will fail to understand the business logic and ultimately the whole thing because he will be concentrating on small details such as why such and such method are called.

But then of course, it could be Mary's fault. Some people just can't explain things well. They will start explaining some crucial, but ultimately minuscule detail, and fail to put the whole thing into perspective.

Try sitting at one of those knowledge transfer sessions. If you are somewhat familiar with the project, it's possible you might guess what's wrong.

 

[nakedfrog]

It's hard to really do a knowledge transfer like that, and damn sure makes getting the project done a lot more work.
Is it possible to assign Mary to the project with Donna as backup? Or possibly assign parts that Mary doesn't know well to her, and others to Donna?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: kranky
My solution is to tell Donna that her work performance will be measured based on how much Mary learns. If Mary doesn't know everything Donna does in 2 years, then Donna has failed. Donna feels this is completely unfair and she can't be held accountable for what Mary does. If I don't do this, then I can guarantee Mary will not learn everything.

What do you think?

You obviously know both people better than we do, but to some extent Donna's concern seems legitimate. I've done knowledge transfer a lot and sometimes there really are people who just don't get it. Sometimes it's because the person I'm trying to train is dumber than a box of rocks. Sometimes it's just because the two of us never manage to get "in sync" and I can't find a way to present the information in a way that the trainee can understand (in those cases I get help from other experts in my field because I have to do the best I can to bring people up to speed). Sometimes the person is smart enough but doesn't want the knowledge (e.g. they were opposed to the project from the beginning and are intentionally dragging their feet).

At the same time, you can't tell Donna to just give her "best effort" based on the history you've given us. She'd use the "best effort" as an excuse.

IMO, your solution is definitely workable, assuming that you actually take into account the possibility that Donna can do everything right and still have Mary fail to understand things when you actually rate Donna. In essence, you tell Donna exactly what you told her, but you keep yourself flexible in how you actually rate her. Do expect Donna to start building in her excuses though; she'll probably come to you with any little hiccough from Mary so that she can build a track record of Mary "not getting it" and use that to support the idea that Donna tried hard, but couldn't overcome Mary's inability to understand.

ZV

 

[Saga]

I probably wouldn't have allowed someone with that type of attitude, no matter how skilled as a SME, to get into a position of high ground by being irreplaceable unless trained by herself. However, if I was in your situation the expectation that it was her responsibility to fully prepare her replacement seems spot-on, and if she has problems with that then there will be consequences for her actions as there are with any professional expectations that are not met or just flat out denied. In the end, you'll probably save yourself a lot of headache by clashing horns early and hard and drilling the understanding into the individual that you are her superior and she can take her ego and walk if she is not going to cooperate.

 

[silverpig]

pics of mary?

 

[krylon]

I think you should team up with a coworker and give Donna an Eiffel Tower, followed by a pink slip.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: leftyman
I think I am glad I dont work with any women.

:laugh:

 

[arcenite]

I seem to remember that on the last episode of "You Be The Manager!", you went ahead and made your own decision anyway.

Boring.

Edit: I like your plan

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: MrChad
How certain are you that the issue is on Donna's end and not Mary's? princess ida's sabotage theory is certainly possible, but it seems strange that Donna would be withholding information unless she didn't want to leave and felt that she was at risk of being replaced. Assuming this retirement is voluntary, I don't understand why she would be uncooperative.

I know Mary well enough that I am 100% certain she can learn everything. It's complex and technical, but not rocket science. It's more about remembering hundreds of little rules about how things need to be done, and this is something Mary excels at.

Donna will not be outright uncooperative. She just wants everyone to think she is a wizard at what she does. She knows there is zero risk of her being replaced no matter how good Mary turns out to be. There is plenty of work to go around until she is ready to retire.

Originally posted by: SonnyDaze
First off, I think Donna is a bitch and needs to be forced into early retirement.

Secondly, why would Donna give a shit if Mary learns or not? She is retiring right? See, Donna wants to leave the company with the thought that they are losing this great employee, which may be true, but in reality you are only losing an uptight, bitchy, control freak.

Donna is not a bitch and will not be forced out. She's a skilled and valuable employee who has a reluctance to see anyone else know everything she knows about this particular customer's projects. She likes being the top dog on the most difficult customer.

Why would Donna care if Mary learns? Good point! Exactly why I want Donna to be responsible for Mary learning! She WILL care about that.

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Is it possible to assign Mary to the project with Donna as backup? Or possibly assign parts that Mary doesn't know well to her, and others to Donna?

Mary doesn't know enough yet to run the project. The nature of the work is such that one person has to call the shots and needs to understand everything that must be done. But there's no reason that by the end of the project Mary can't know 99.5% of everything involved.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You obviously know both people better than we do, but to some extent Donna's concern seems legitimate. I've done knowledge transfer a lot and sometimes there really are people who just don't get it.

As I noted above, I know Mary can learn this just as well as Donna has. She hasn't worked with Donna directly, but Donna's co-workers have, and they all know Mary can do it. I've told Donna that Mary has been very successful on every project she has worked on, so I do not think there will be any issues.

Your suggestion of telling Donna she's responsible for Mary coming up to speed, but then being somewhat flexible in the official rating, is very good. While I do not think Mary will stumble, I will tell Donna that at the first sign of any problem she needs to come to me and we will figure out how to get Mary some extra training. That way I can see if Mary truly needs some help or if Donna is just giving her half-assed OJT. Donna has a way of explaining things using methods the other person won't be able to follow (have you ever heard of Prof. Irwin Corey?), and after a while it just discourages the other person from trying to understand. If she pulls that, and comes to me to say there's a problem, I can jump in and explain the issue in ways Mary can grasp without the Donna double-talk.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: krylon
I think you should team up with a coworker and give Donna an Eiffel Tower, followed by a pink slip.

/urbandictionary

:laugh:

 

[K1052]

Fire everyone involved, hire consultants, and get a 20% pay increase for my ingenuity.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't like Donna. I don't care how good you think she at her job, she's fucking you. Part of her job is passing on knowledge to her coworkers, and failure to do that is failure to properly do her job.

 

[Barfo]

Pics of Mary and Donna.

 

[sao123]

did you consider the problem might be that donna just sux at being a teacher?

i know many a intelligent folks... but most of them couldnt be trusted to teach a 5 year old that 2+2=4.

Scotts general rule of thumb is:
The sum of a persons ability to communication ability and their knowledge of a subject is equal to 1.

Either a person knows nothing but will try to tell you everything about it, or they know everything about it but cant get past the word FIRST...

 

[BoberFett]

Don't make Mary the focal point. Make documentation a part of the business process that applies to everyone. That way it looks like you're not singling out Donna as having to train someone in.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: Saga
I probably wouldn't have allowed someone with that type of attitude, no matter how skilled as a SME, to get into a position of high ground by being irreplaceable unless trained by herself. However, if I was in your situation the expectation that it was her responsibility to fully prepare her replacement seems spot-on, and if she has problems with that then there will be consequences for her actions as there are with any professional expectations that are not met or just flat out denied. In the end, you'll probably save yourself a lot of headache by clashing horns early and hard and drilling the understanding into the individual that you are her superior and she can take her ego and walk if she is not going to cooperate.

She's not irreplaceable. You know the old "What if she got hit by a bus?" scenario- if that happened, we'd get by. It would be a little painful, but we'd be able to survive. I don't expect there will need to be any big showdown. Just set the expectations and hold Donna accountable. I feel Donna has enough self-pride that she can't bear to think of getting a bad evaluation. It will be a real conflict for her. Her two big motivators - being the top dog and getting great evaluations - are going to be in opposition.