Yet another thread dissolves into a round of personal attacks

[ProfJohn]

I create a thread based on a National Review piece discussing the sub-prime mortgage crisis. There is nothing partisan about the thread; this is not a Democrat verse Republican issue.

Nor is the OP trolling or attacking in any manor as shown below (without the quoted article.)

So maybe all the doom and gloom about the sub-prime mortgage crisis doesn?t reflect reality and is just another example of bad news getting ratings and selling news papers.

Of all the mortgages in the country only 14% are sub-prime and of those only 13% are late on payments.

Also there are 254,000 mortgages in foreclosure right now, this compares to 219,000 at this point last year.
Read the article and draw your own conclusions.

There are a few posts that discuss the topic at hand, but it soon goes to hell with a barrage of personal attacks and insults.

First we have our resident troll

The only conclusion here is you are a sad man.

If you loved your country you would expect a whole lot better for it.

And then the personal attacks.

As usual, cherry picking responses rather than making an attempt to reply to any of the issues brought up.

Let the disinformation continue to flow, PJ.

lol. I don't claim to be as smart as Ben Stein, but last time I checked he doesn't work in the financial markets, he doesn't have a primary career there, he works as an actor/comedian/gameshow host, he doesn't have any finance certficiations and his only claim to fame is being a marginal economist. Additionally, his numbers are wrong and/or outdated and flat out misconstrued.

Naturally, uneducated non-professor john types are gullible and would rather listen to the 1 person they agree with than the 10 people they don't.

ProfJohn shouldn't be allowed to post these weak articles that are easily debunked and just run away. I'd say more than half of his threads are like this.

I think people are sick of you cherry picking stories to post and replys to respond to all day long. You spread disinformation with no regard for anything other than your own political agenda.

He won't bother because he knows next to nothing about the subject. That's not an attack, just an observation according to what I have seen in his posts. All he can do is trumpet his heroes around with little to know original thought or analysis. Naturally he'll claim that he was just posting a message.

Anybody who has thought about this to a large extent can see that Ben Stein's logic sucks ass. However, the unthinking people refuse to think about it because...it hurts their head or something.

People like John won't ever learn because they're lazy, that's why he won't respond to me. if he does, it'll be another canned response, one liner, or somebody else's analysis. He won't ask a question to be educated but will forward another shill's ideas. Why? He's too lazy to think.

I like the last one with it?s ?That?s not an attack? followed by ?He's too lazy to think?

Most of these attacks are by the same people who launch personal attacks in other thread.
Perhaps if we crack down on the people launching the personal attacks without even discussing the issue at hand we can stop this trend and elevate the level of discussion on this board.

How is your post later on in this thread about the intellectual dishonesty of the Left any different? This thread is typical of the hypocrisy of both sides of the political fence in P&N and will now be locked. Please don't start another thread about this unless you can clean up your own act!

Meanwhile we are in dicussions on how to make that forum less volatile without resorting to wholesale bans and we've yet to come to a solution.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Red Dawn

 

[1EZduzit]

The thread is about money, in the politcs & news forum, not the diplomacy & news forum?? Seriously, what were you expecting? If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The thread is about money, in the politcs & news forum, not the diplomacy & news forum?? Seriously, what were you expecting? If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

How about you not bringing name calling and insults into this forum.

I agree with the OP and it's the reason a lot of members won't post in the Political Forum. There is never a thread with good debating and meaningful discussion there. It always disintegrates into flaming, name calling, and ad hominem attacks.

The whole Political Forum needs revamping with rules enforced so that troublemakers aren't allowed to desecrate threads and send them spiraling off the original topic.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

A fine example of the labeling and name-calling the OP is talking about.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

A fine example of the labeling and name-calling the OP is talking about.

Actually this is a fine example of EXACTLY what I was talking about. Using the term "the hardercore rightwingers" is name calling and insulting? Please tell me what the proper term is then. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

It seems to me the righties haven't been the same since jrenz got banned for calling out a mod, that's when all this complaining bs seemed to start anyway.

 

[alchemize]

I'm pretty sure it's now an unwritten rule that trolling and personal attacks are pretty much acceptable in P&N. Let's bring Riprorin back - oh man would he really get the looney left salivating.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The thread is about money, in the politcs & news forum, not the diplomacy & news forum?? Seriously, what were you expecting? If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

The #1 Rule in the forums (see other thread on forum rules)

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

Seems to me lately that frivilous personal attacks are becoming far more common than at times in the past. Couple this with the increased profanity and the attacks seem harsher too.

A lot of people just follow PJ around to post nothing other than "I don't you like you" stuff. IMO, that's neither Politics or News. I damn give a damn, take it to a PM if you wanna express that. many of these posts have no "deftly....and backing up arguments with facts..." stuff whatsoever.

Some of us monitor threads. When one these useless posts is posted, I can't tell whether it's legit or not, so I go over and see. What a waste of time, it's like getting up to answer the door and no one's there (or the Jehova Witnesses). It's fricken annoying.

Misleadig thread titles annoy me too. Another fricken waste of time.

I'm not exactly liking jrenz whooping with the ban stick, nor Howard's either.

Fern

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

A fine example of the labeling and name-calling the OP is talking about.

Actually this is a fine example of EXACTLY what I was talking about. Using the term "the hardercore rightwingers" is name calling and insulting? Please tell me what the proper term is then. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

It seems to me the righties haven't been the same since jrenz got banned for calling out a mod, that's when all this complaining bs seemed to start anyway.

The term "conservative" is preferred over "hardcore rightwingers". I use the term liberal or democrat rather than insane lefties, or something like that. Its a lot more respectful...And from what I can tell, we have no hardcore rightwingers here. I dont see anyone praising Hitler or posting videos of cross burnings.

Also as far as jrenz ban goes, the thread I started had nothing to do with that situation even though I have my own opinion on how that went down.

 

[nick1985]

removed for own thread

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


What is it with aso many of the hadrercore rightwingers complaining in here lately anway?

A fine example of the labeling and name-calling the OP is talking about.

Actually this is a fine example of EXACTLY what I was talking about. Using the term "the hardercore rightwingers" is name calling and insulting? Please tell me what the proper term is then. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

It seems to me the righties haven't been the same since jrenz got banned for calling out a mod, that's when all this complaining bs seemed to start anyway.

The term "conservative" is preferred over "hardcore rightwingers". I use the term liberal or democrat rather than insane lefties, or something like that. Its a lot more respectful...And from what I can tell, we have no hardcore rightwingers here. I dont see anyone praising Hitler or posting videos of cross burnings.

Also as far as jrenz ban goes, the thread I started had nothing to do with that situation even though I have my own opinion on how that went down.

I call them the way I see them and I have my own opinions as well. Deal with it.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: nick1985
Text


"What I also don't "gotta love" is a crowing juvenile delinquent trying to shift the blame for this catastrophy away from the criminal administration that's the source of the problem.

If you're such a hotshot heart surgeon, try cutting the heart out of something a little smaller than the entire U.S. Constitution. "

-- Harvey talking to Heartsurgeon



Yet another instance where Harvey makes a blatant personal attack against a member and gets a free pass. Either Harvey gets a free pass everytime he does this because he is a moderator, or its because the moderators are not doing their job. Frankly, I dont know which is worse.

Your just trying to stir the pot now.

Funny you don't put any of HS's quotes in here. ;laugh;

 

[nick1985]

I made a new thread about this issue 1EZduzit, feel free to post his quotes there. If he made personal attacks too, then actions should be taken.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: nick1985
I made a new thread about this issue 1EZduzit, feel free to post his quotes there. If he made personal attacks too, then actions should be taken.

LOL, I'm not a WHINER, but please feel free to stir all you want. I think I made my points.

 

[Red Dawn]

I've found that the best way to avoid being flamed in P&N is to not be antagonistic. I don't think that's possible for 90% of those who post there including the OP.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: nick1985
I made a new thread about this issue 1EZduzit, feel free to post his quotes there. If he made personal attacks too, then actions should be taken.

I see you were given a week off for making that thread. I don't see that you should have.

Everyone should be held to the same accountability for personal attacks on the board.

 

[cliftonite]

I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Fern


A lot of people just follow ,insert name here> around to post nothing other than "I don't you like you" stuff.

that happens a lot on several of the AT forums.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

Howard just got a vacation for persoanl attacks on Dave.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: cliftonite
I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

Howard just got a vacation for persoanl attacks on Dave.

I believe that was for creating a Call Out thread.

Here's a rule of thumb for you. If you have a problem with another member post here, if you have a problem with a Moderator, PM the Anandtech Moderator account, if you have a problem with a Senior Moderator, PM or Email Derek as he's the only one who has authority over a Senior Mod.

 

[shortylickens]

Have to agree with Moshie on this one.
Yes, P&N will have many different opinions and people arguing (sometimes heatedly) their side of the debate.

HOWEVER,
AT forums is not the place to personally insult each other (or so the mods keep telling me through PM). There is no forum for that on AT.
You wanna do that you leave your computer and go outside to start a pissing contest. Its not allowed here.
P&N was created so people could share opinions and theories intelligently.
Granted that doesnt happen much anymore, but we have to try to raise the level of debate. So the forum has rules and the mods enforce them (when possible).

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

I've noticed the same thing. There are several threads here started by people on the (nominal) right seeking moderator intervention on their behalf, essentially seeking to control others' postings. I haven't noticed any threads like that from someone on the (nominal) left, at least not recently. Is this a characteristic of conservatism, the need for an authority/paternal figure to protect and control, or is it simply a coincidence due to the specific people involved? Any thoughts?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Have to agree with Moshie on this one.
Yes, P&N will have many different opinions and people arguing (sometimes heatedly) their side of the debate.

HOWEVER,
AT forums is not the place to personally insult each other (or so the mods keep telling me through PM). There is no forum for that on AT.
You wanna do that you leave your computer and go outside to start a pissing contest. Its not allowed here.
P&N was created so people could share opinions and theories intelligently.
Granted that doesnt happen much anymore, but we have to try to raise the level of debate. So the forum has rules and the mods enforce them (when possible).

I've also bemoaned the lack of thoughtful discussion in P&N, but there simply doesn't seem to be much interest in it. If one posts a thorough, thoughtful post with appropriate citations, it is generally ignored. If it garners any responses at all, it's from someone who will pick one or two minor bits to attack, often twisting them out of context, while ignoring the main points raised and documentation presented. There are certain people who, in my opinion, engage in this behavior regularly, leading to some of the same "personal attacks" people are complaining about in this thread.

To take just one example from the OP, PJ presents the following as a "personal attack":

As usual, cherry picking responses rather than making an attempt to reply to any of the issues brought up.

Let the disinformation continue to flow, PJ.

I would contend this is not a personal attack, but a complaint about behavior. The tone is certainly somewhat hostile, but that's a predictable human response to repeated frustration. (And no, that's not my quote. I did not post in that thread.)

In short, while two wrongs don't make a right, I think people who complain about personal attacks and insults should start by considering their own behavior to see if they are doing anything to incite such responses. I know I do at times, which is why I've never sought moderator intervention on any of the many attacks aimed at me or for any of the behaviors I see negatively affecting P&N. I'm a big boy, and I figure the mods have better things to do than babysit us.

My $0.02.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cliftonite
I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

I've noticed the same thing. There are several threads here started by people on the (nominal) right seeking moderator intervention on their behalf, essentially seeking to control others' postings. I haven't noticed any threads like that from someone on the (nominal) left, at least not recently. Is this a characteristic of conservatism, the need for an authority/paternal figure to protect and control, or is it simply a coincidence due to the specific people involved? Any thoughts?

Actually I think the it is because the members of left are intellectually bankrupt and therefore must rely on personal attacks to distract people from the issues at hand?

 

[bsobel]

Actually I think the it is because the members of left are intellectually bankrupt and therefore must rely on personal attacks to distract people from the issues at hand?

So insulting roughly 50% of the user base in one stupid statement is better than someone directly calling another user intellectually bankrupt?

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cliftonite
I see people like dmcowen674, techs, etc. being called names all the time, yet no one comes in here crying about that do they?

I've noticed the same thing. There are several threads here started by people on the (nominal) right seeking moderator intervention on their behalf, essentially seeking to control others' postings. I haven't noticed any threads like that from someone on the (nominal) left, at least not recently. Is this a characteristic of conservatism, the need for an authority/paternal figure to protect and control, or is it simply a coincidence due to the specific people involved? Any thoughts?

Actually I think the it is because the members of left are intellectually bankrupt and therefore must rely on personal attacks to distract people from the issues at hand?

I think you have shown your hand on that last remark.