Yet Another Rant About Video Card Prices

[Boze]

For those that haven't heard, BFG Technologies is making a 512 MB version of their 6800 Ultra OC PCI-Express card.

No doubt, it will be in short supply, high demand, and over-the-top in price; however, there's one thing I'm getting tired of seeing here at AnandTech, and its crap like this:

Originally posted by: MajorPayne
Back on topic, I myself am wondering how much this little mega-memory wonder will cost? With 512 MB of RAM (which is funny considering current tech does not even make sull use of 256 MB!), a bunch of freebies, etc. Also, being an Ultra, this card will likely be in very short supply as well, making it another way to tax our supply of "people who have more money than brains. Of course the most effective form of this tax will be when someone (and there will be someone) gets TWO of these, and puts them in SLI!

Where to begin the dissection, really?

Currenty technology does make use of 512 MB of RAM, notably, Doom 3 and EverQuest II (I'm not saying those are the best games, but both can use ultra-high resolution textures and 512 MB video cards).

Secondly... I'm getting really tired of this "people who have more money than brains" crap. I wish people would reword the comments to what they are really thinking. What's wrong with saying, "People who have more money than me and who can and will buy one or even two of these."

I've seen an awful lot of rants over the years I've been lurking here at AnandTech about higher and higher priced video cards, but the one thing I don't think I've ever seen is someone post suggestions about how these frustrated users can learn to boost their income so they can afford the latest and greatest. I've also never seen anyone post inflation-over-time graphs.

Are highest end video cards really more expensive than they were five or ten years ago if inflation is factored into the equation, or do we simply have too many people whose memories are a little fuzzy on the 'good-ole days' (I for one remember $350 Voodoo2 cards on release and that was years ago)?

This is a plea people... quit posting jealous bullcrap thinly veiled under the premise that people who are willing to pay the most for the best are turning the high-end video card market upside down. We are no different than people who buy Ferraris, Lotuses, and Aston Martins. We want the best and we will pay for it. Period.

For those of you who can't deal with this; increase your income or come to terms with the fact you won't be able to have the best of the best anymore. I for one am sick of the whining about it.

EDITED to correct spelling & punctuation errors.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Decent rant. I agree with most of your points.

Edit: And I fully intend to buy a R520 in a few months' time as well. Am I crazy? Definitely.

 

[rbV5]

Get over it. 110,000 members aren't all going to see things your way. Its hardware for crying out loud, you don't have to protect "its" honor, or justify your purchases to strangers.

The fact is, the latest and greatest isn't worth the money to "most" users, big deal.

 

[crazyeddie]

Just curious, Boze, why you didn't entitle this rant, "I can piss away my disposable income any way I want" ?

Your points are generally valid, but I've known PC gaming enthusiats with wives and children who lived in their in-laws' basement and their wives worked two jobs while grandma babysat the children so the uber elite gamer could piss his part-time income away on $500 video cards.

If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

If you're still renting, have a car payment, or aren't taking care of basic financial planning, you have higher priorities you ought to be taking care of.

 

[alent1234]

I bought a Voodoo2 card the day they came out for $399. I also remember some of the hard core gamers fell for the marketing hype and bought two so they could play in SLI.

Over the years new CPU's have stayed the same or dropped in price and almost every other piece of hardware has dropped in price with each new generation. It seems that only video cards are going up in price with each new generation.

As long as there are people who think they can see a difference between 200fps and 210fps companies will sell them a product to meet their needs.

 

[302efi]

Originally posted by: alent1234

As long as there are people who think they can see a difference between 200fps and 210fps companies will sell them a product to meet their needs.

:thumbsup:

 

[AndyD2k]

Sounds like you're trying to justify something to yourself.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: crazyeddie
Just curious, Boze, why you didn't entitle this rant, "I can piss away my disposable income any way I want" ?

Your points are generally valid, but I've known PC gaming enthusiats with wives and children who lived in their in-laws' basement and their wives worked two jobs while grandma babysat the children so the uber elite gamer could piss his part-time income away on $500 video cards.

If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

If you're still renting, have a car payment, or aren't taking care of basic financial planning, you have higher priorities you ought to be taking care of.

Is there a prize for someone who doesn't qualify for ANY of those qualities?

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: crazyeddie
If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

Shouldn't he also have a good life insurance policy and a burial plot picked out and paid for?

Lighten up

 

[dfedders]

Originally posted by: Boze
Secondly... I'm getting really tired of this "people who have more money than brains" crap. I wish people would reword the comments to what they are really thinking. What's wrong with saying, "People who have more money than me and who can and will buy one or even two of these."...

For those of you who can't deal with this; increase your income or come to terms with the fact you won't be able to have the best of the best anymore. I for one am sick of the whining about it.

Whats with the rich person whining here? STFU and go buy the card and make yourself feel better... or maybe you feel guilty because you have so much, and there are others who don't have enouh money to feed their families. Mabye you'll feel better if you donate some money to charity, and won't feel the need to justify why you want a $1000 video card.

 

[MonkeyWrench4000]

The real truth is tht most anyone could actually come up with the money for the fastest graphics card, say $500.

People who ususally buy the budget graphics card or the good deal medium think that the majority of you who buy the newest video card for $500, every year, and post over and over and over about it on these forums dont know how to spend there money.

I personally agree with them. What a waste of money to buy a top-end "video card". I sometimes even have trouble understanding how someone would be "rich" enough to buy the $150 video card considering its pretty much a waste of money. Yeah it's gonna play your games, but then your going to go buy the latest one anyway because, again, you dont know how to spend your money.

This is just my opinion. There was a time when most all of us didnt know everything about graphics cards, or before we even got into them, and were happy with whatever low-end, mainstream thing came bundled on whatever system we got taken for a ride on at the local pc shop.

I still think mainstream cards are the best idea. Ive had my share of performance video cards and I dont feel I ever got my moneys worth with the latest games Ive played. I get my "performance" video cards by simply waiting until someone has 2, bought a new card instead of RMA-ing it, in that case i simply aquire there broken card and RMA it. I would never buy a high end video card though, so I could simply sit there and feel I have the fastest graphics possible. Next year It wont be the fastest possible, and you had spent a very large ammount of money, on somthing very insigificant.

 

[Amplifier]

I'm sick of you people being jealous of my Voodoo2 rig. It's been 7 years and you still haven't put down the haterade?

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: crazyeddie
Just curious, Boze, why you didn't entitle this rant, "I can piss away my disposable income any way I want" ?

Your points are generally valid, but I've known PC gaming enthusiats with wives and children who lived in their in-laws' basement and their wives worked two jobs while grandma babysat the children so the uber elite gamer could piss his part-time income away on $500 video cards.

If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

If you're still renting, have a car payment, or aren't taking care of basic financial planning, you have higher priorities you ought to be taking care of.

Giving 10% of my income to whom?

 

[imported_tss4]

You people need to get a life. If he wants to buy an expensive video card then more power to him. Its far less wasteful of his money than all the morons paying top dollar for SUV's that cost $60 to fill up every week. Or how about going out to eat constanty, or that new hdtv you bught? Anybody that can blast him for spending his money on something "wasteful" needs to take a cold hard look in the mirror at their own spending habits.

 

[Amplifier]

lol @ the HDTV tss4. -Every- person I've met in foreclosure the past 3 months had a big screen TV.

 

[Boze]

Originally posted by: crazyeddie
Just curious, Boze, why you didn't entitle this rant, "I can piss away my disposable income any way I want" ?

Your points are generally valid, but I've known PC gaming enthusiats with wives and children who lived in their in-laws' basement and their wives worked two jobs while grandma babysat the children so the uber elite gamer could piss his part-time income away on $500 video cards.

If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

If you're still renting, have a car payment, or aren't taking care of basic financial planning, you have higher priorities you ought to be taking care of.

I can't really tell if you're attacking me personally, or if you are referring to the "collective" you, as in, 'These are things everyone should have set aside or handled to be considered fiscally stable', so I don't really know how to respond, other than to say I agree with most of your points about money management.

A person really should have the following to be considered fiscally stable:
*3 months of their gross income in a savings account as an emergency fund
*Less than 40% of their total credit limit charged on credit cards (according to EQUIFAX, this is considered the national average)

As for me personally, I have a constant balance on my frequent flyer miles card (for what should be obvious reasons), I never incurred student loans, I do have an IRA, but use it mainly for tax advantage purposes rather than actual dependency for retirement, I contribute donations each year to (RAINN, mainly because I believe it to be a worthy cause, but it also provides tax advantages (and the 10% contribution to a church or charity you refer to is a Christian value, and if you want to talk Christian values, titheing in its purest form could be a 10% contribution of your time, to help your church in projects or events - many Christians view the tithe in different ways - be careful where you go with this). My truck was paid off in January of this year, I'm not married, not even in a serious relationship, so planning the kid's college expenses is a little moot, although by the time I have kids and they need to go to college, money for that won't likely be a consideration, and as stated above, I use the 3 month/gross income rule for emergency savings.

And by your logic, crazyeddie, one should also have his or her house paid off before considering expenses like this as well, shouldn't they?... I would tend to think so, since you are quite adamant about having all possessions paid for, or at least that's the impression you give me.

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
Sounds like you're trying to justify something to yourself.

No Andy, this thread isn't about justification of the purchase of "the bigger, better, badder card". This thread is about people who feel the need to slander those that can and will (actually, I think in print, its referred to as libel ), for whatever reason, although more and more often it becomes apparent to me its jealousy veiled under assumptions that aren't backed up with facts (if someone can provide facts that directly prove, or provide a reasonable conclusion that highest end card buyers are driving up prices, then I will conceed).

I don't need to justify any purchase to myself, and especially not anyone else. I also don't want, or need one or two of these 512 MB cards. I am perfectly happy with what I have, and I doubt that I will even want the spring refresh cards when they arrive, unless they promise some incredible performance gains (and by incredible, I mean at least 25% greater performance than today's top end).

Originally posted by: dfedders
Whats with the rich person whining here? STFU and go buy the card and make yourself feel better... or maybe you feel guilty because you have so much, and there are others who don't have enouh money to feed their families. Mabye you'll feel better if you donate some money to charity, and won't feel the need to justify why you want a $1000 video card.

Firstly, I'm not rich (at least not, by the definitions I consider as rich). I suppose since my passive income now exceeds my expenses, by some folks' definition of the word 'rich', I qualify, but I consider $1,000,000 a year or greater to be rich, and I am quite a ways off from that..

Second, I am not whining, rather I feel I'm taking a stance against the whiners who accuse those of us who happen to be 'enthusiasts' and want the best performance, of driving up the high end video card market to astronomical prices.

Third, if a person has to buy something to make themselves feel better, then they have self-esteem issues that are beyond the repair of owning the latest, greatest video card. There is no product, service, or possession I can buy that will make me feel better about me. Only I am capable of that.

Fourth, I donated quite a bit of money to charity this year, to the charity I listed above as a matter of fact - and I felt very good about it. Hopefully that money can be used to help someone.

And lastly, as posted above, I am not trying to 'justify' this video card to myself (certainly since I don't intend to purchase one!).

MonkeyWrench4000,

Your post seems to be one of the more thought-out and relatively constructive posts here. I also like what you say about replacement of video cards. Its true there are people here at AnandTech that will purchase the very latest and greatest every time its released and that other card from six months ago will go to the scrap heap; however, for each person like that, there are many more like myself who will sell our former latest-and-greatest to someone else looking to upgrade and take the proceeds combined with a (usually) small additonal amount and purchase the very top end available at the time.

 

[crazyeddie]

Boze, not dissing you in particular at all. Sounds like you have your finances in good order, so congrats.

I was merely mentioning that I'd seen guys buying high end hardware who didn't have any business doing so.

Money is a tool that is too often abused, and most folks just don't learn how to financial plan for their life.

I laughed when I read about the life insurance and burial plot. These are only important at certain life stages and depending on one's individual wishes and beliefs. If you're single and simply wish to be creamated, you can skip these.

As for paying off your home, mortgages provide certain tax benefits and some financial planners will tell you to not pay off your house depending on your particular financial position. Reverse mortgages are becoming quite popular for retirement planning, also.

Somebody made a comment about my "give 10% of your income to your church or charities" criteria. Highly successful people almost universly stress the importance of "giving back" and helping those in need. Folks who don't contribute time or money to non-profit causes (be they charitable, political, or religious) generally fail to do so because they lack the resources, not because they can't think of anything they wouldn't like to contribute toward.

$1300 on video cards, like $60,000 for a car or $2.4 million for a house, is a lot of money to spend on something. I'm merely suggesting that it would benefit most of us to consider other priorities before committing financial resources to such luxury purchases. If everything else is in order, then enjoy the $6,000 PC.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: crazyeddie

I laughed when I read about the life insurance and burial plot.

I'm glad you did, for it was intended as a joke.

I too thought your values were a bit extreme. I am the single most financially stable person my age that I know, and only qualify for 5 of your 8 points (5 of 7 if you ignore the kids/college thing since I don't have kids.)

 

[rise]

why anyone would let this bother them i'll never know. of course, i don't understand why people criticize how others spend their own money either.

 

[Vernor]

The people who shell out a grand on video cards subsidize R&D for the rest of us.

It's like progressive taxation.

 

[doublejbass]

No, they subsidize profit margins.

Stupid people talking economics is funny.

And just because some idiot can justify it doesn't make it not a foolish waste of money. Jealousy, no. Recognition of stupidity? Yup.

 

[Boze]

Explain please how it is a foolish waste of money, please doublejbass. I hear a lot of users saying this, but I don't ever see facts or graphs or charts or any information to back up their so-called 'facts'. Most of the time we here in the Video forums want to deal with cold, hard facts - so let's don't limit that to video card performance. Prove to me that it is a foolish waste of money.

 

[The Green Bean]

OP: How much do you earn a year? Maybe in Kuwaiti Dinars?

 

[vinayb]

I think this is a crap thread. Boze is right to a certain extent. Bottom line is that whatever a person buys, is upto him. Who is another person to question the way HE uses HIS money huh? Is he stealing your money and buying a top h/w??
I just want to ask ONE QUESTION>> IF THE GUYS (WHO WHINE ABOUT THE ''RICH'' GUYS BUYING ''USELESS'' TOP-END PRODUCT) HAD THE EXTRA MONEY, WOULDNT THEY BUY THE BEST OF THE BEST? COZ IF THEY ARENT, THEN IM SORRY I DONT KNOW WHY THEY EARN THAT EXTRA MONEY FOR. I think people only want to earn more, do so to live their lives better.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: crazyeddie
Just curious, Boze, why you didn't entitle this rant, "I can piss away my disposable income any way I want" ?

Your points are generally valid, but I've known PC gaming enthusiats with wives and children who lived in their in-laws' basement and their wives worked two jobs while grandma babysat the children so the uber elite gamer could piss his part-time income away on $500 video cards.

If you:
-aren't carrying credit card debt for more than 30 days
-have your student loans paid off
-are kicking 12% of your gross incoming into a 401(k) or IRA account
-have 6 months net income in your savings account
-have your car paid off
-have your children's college savings planned out
-are contributing 10% of your income to your church or charities
-aren't carrying a second mortgage

...and after all of that is taken care of, if you still want to spend $1300 on a pair of 512Mb 6800 Ultra OCs, then go for it.

If you're still renting, have a car payment, or aren't taking care of basic financial planning, you have higher priorities you ought to be taking care of.

Giving 10% of my income to whom?

The NVIDIA for me foundation?