Yet another Pitbull attack, this time pregnant woman dies.

[OlafSicky]

Dog and owner should be euthanized

 

[preCRT]

Dangerous dogs should be treated like handguns, owners should be forced to undergo training & licensing prior to ownership. If the gun or dog is used to hurt another being, the owner goes to jail, & the weapon/dog is confiscated.

If the pitbull folks truly believe the animal is innocent and blame bad training by owners, then hold the owners totally responsible. Severe jail time for letting their dog harm another animal or human. License/restrict selling/breeding of the dogs like guns too.

 

[Brigandier]

Dangerous dogs should be treated like handguns, owners should be forced to undergo training & licensing prior to ownership. If the gun or dog is used to hurt another being, the owner goes to jail, & the weapon/dog is confiscated.

If the pitbull folks truly believe the animal is innocent and blame bad training by owners, then hold the owners totally responsible. Severe jail time for letting their dog harm another animal or human. License/restrict selling/breeding of the dogs like guns too.

I completely concur, it'd help a lot of animal issues too. People need to be responsible for their beasts, letting your dog bite another should be a misdemeanor, and scale up from the injuries inflicted. I see it as no different than you dropping a gun in public and it harming another.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Not even close. Comparing a cougar or even a bobcat to a housecat is like comparing coyotes and wolves to normal dogs. Nice try though, what you should have said is "Most folks wouldn't consider keeping an animal, so most people shouldn't keep pets."

Frogs and hamsters exist for those that want pets but wouldn't keep an animal.

Not really, no. A bobcat is a medium cat weighting 30-40 pounds, in some cases 50. You have A LOT LESS chances of dying from a bobcat attacking you than a pitbull. Both can be easily socialized with the right owner or breeder however, especially if taken as a puppy/kitten.

To me it seems like having any of both of these will take commitment and responsibility.

 

[Brigandier]

Not really, no. A bobcat is a medium cat weighting 30-40 pounds, in some cases 50. You have A LOT LESS chances of dying from a bobcat attacking you than a pitbull. Both can be easily socialized with the right owner or breeder however, especially if taken as a puppy/kitten.

To me it seems like having any of both of these will take commitment and responsibility.

So now you're comparing sizes, by that, any dog over 50 lbs should be banned. You may have less a chance of dying, but there is more a chance of attack. I would love for everyone getting bit by a small dog to report it, I bet it will be higher than pit bulls and even house-cats (House-cats only attack you if you annoy the shiz out of them). Before pits there were rottweilers, before rottweilers their were dobermans; I'd say the problem is people owning medium to large dogs that they don't understand how to educate and control.

Guess what, most large dogs are working dogs, meaning, they need a job to be complete. How many people actually give their dogs jobs? Medium to large dogs have been working in America since the Indians; recently, we stop giving them work and they act out...How is that surprising? People that are more afraid of a pit than any other 50 lb+ dog make me lol, if you're going to be afraid of one, be wary of them all.

 

[Tristicus]

The story says that the pitbull who attacked was locked away in a back room. Any dog that you have to lock away is not fit to be kept as a pet. The owner was a fool.

Well agreeing with this guy here, which doesn't happen often.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

So now you're comparing sizes, by that, any dog over 50 lbs should be banned. You may have less a chance of dying, but there is more a chance of attack. I would love for everyone getting bit by a small dog to report it, I bet it will be higher than pit bulls and even house-cats (House-cats only attack you if you annoy the shiz out of them). Before pits there were rottweilers, before rottweilers their were dobermans; I'd say the problem is people owning medium to large dogs that they don't understand how to educate and control.

Guess what, most large dogs are working dogs, meaning, they need a job to be complete. How many people actually give their dogs jobs? Medium to large dogs have been working in America since the Indians; recently, we stop giving them work and they act out...How is that surprising? People that are more afraid of a pit than any other 50 lb+ dog make me lol, if you're going to be afraid of one, be wary of them all.

No. What I'm saying is that pitbulls tend to fall a lot more into their instinctive nature like bobcats unless they have very responsible breeders or owners. Any large dog can attack you, but many recent generations of pitbulls seem to have more problems with acting on their instinctive nature instead of what they're taught.

As for the size comparison, it was used to make the point that in terms of attacks getting attacked by a pitbull is worse than a bobcat, which is true.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The pro-pit bull crowd is circulating a story that the woman fell off a ladder and the nice dog was just trying to wake her up. Talk about grasping at straws.

http://www.examiner.com/american-pit-bull-in-national/pacifica-dog-mauling-what-really-happened-1

I really love the Internet, but giving every idiot a voice to spread their own wacky version of the news is a slight drawback.

You mean it hasn't really been determined yet that this woman was actually mauled since the autopsy hasn't been performed yet?

lol at people jumping to conclusions based on their biases. It's entirely possible the dog was at fault but I'll wait until all the facts are in. In the event she actually DID fall off of a ladder a few folks in here are going to look like jackasses.

 

[Brigandier]

No. What I'm saying is that pitbulls tend to fall a lot more into their instinctive nature like bobcats unless they have very responsible breeders or owners. Any large dog can attack you, but many recent generations of pitbulls seem to have more problems with acting on their instinctive nature instead of what they're taught.

As for the size comparison, it was used to make the point that in terms of attacks getting attacked by a pitbull is worse than a bobcat, which is true.

I've never met a pit that has tried to fight me, and I've met quite a few pits. Some pits have been threatening at first, but when I ignore them, they calm the fuck down.

Maybe the statistics show pits are more violent, what I submit is that the owners don't know how the fuck to raise a good dog. If they had a small dog, they'd have a yappy shit that bit ankles, because they have a pit, that ankle biting is put to the extreme.

Have you ever felt you could punch a dog in the neck? You should, each dog may need it.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I've never met a pit that has tried to fight me, and I've met quite a few pits. Some pits have been threatening at first, but when I ignore them, they calm the fuck down.

Maybe the statistics show pits are more violent, what I submit is that the owners don't know how the fuck to raise a good dog. If they had a small dog, they'd have a yappy shit that bit ankles, because they have a pit, that ankle biting is put to the extreme.

Have you ever felt you could punch a dog in the neck? You should, each dog may need it.

The problem is that recent generations of pitbulls have been raised more so than in the past for fighting and by irresponsible owners, hence they'll act more on their instinctive nature unless they have great owners. Let me put it to you this way: pitbull X was raised by a great owner who has lots of knowledge of the breed and can easily detect anything wrong with the pet, hence having the ability to act upon it easily. Pitbull Y was raised by a good owner that while spent time with the dog didn't really have knowledge about him. Which one of the owners do you think will have more chance of controlling the dog and preventing disasters like the ones here? Exactly. Many animals have sudden moments where they want to act based on instinct, and you need an owner that can help eliminate that.

A bobcat is fine, too. (As long as you have lots of dedication, knowledge and responsibility, that is).

 

[Brigandier]

The problem is that recent generations of pitbulls have been raised more so than in the past for fighting and by irresponsible owners, hence they'll act more on their instinctive nature unless they have great owners. Let me put it to you this way: pitbull X was raised by a great owner who has lots of knowledge of the breed and can easily detect anything wrong with the pet, hence having the ability to act upon it easily. Pitbull Y was raised by a good owner that while spent time with the dog didn't really have knowledge about him. Which one of the owners do you think will have more chance of controlling the dog and preventing disasters like the ones here? Exactly. Many animals have sudden moments where they want to act based on instinct, and you need an owner that can help eliminate that.

A bobcat is fine, too. (As long as you have lots of dedication, knowledge and responsibility, that is).

All that is true, but a bobcat will never make a good "pet." The instincts you decry the pitbull for are present in all dogs, some breeds less so. How many people do you know with small terriers? Same killing instinct, smaller dog. I wouldn't want anyone raising a medium to large sized dog unless they realized how dogs worked, regardless of breed. Labradors and goldens are good, I mean, it's a retriever for god's sake, it's greatest instinct is to chase things down, but even though they are docile breeds, they can still be vicious. A lot of the new designer breeds of medium-large dogs are guard/ protection ones as well, so don't just fear pits.

Most attacks happen when a dog thinks it's territory is threatened, it's a good training method to the give the dog as small a piece of territory as you can. Sure, you can have a lot, but the dog has to know your territory isn't his, most owners don't do this, and I wouldn't trust their family dogs as far as I could kick them.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

All that is true, but a bobcat will never make a good "pet." The instincts you decry the pitbull for are present in all dogs, some breeds less so. How many people do you know with small terriers? Same killing instinct, smaller dog. I wouldn't want anyone raising a medium to large sized dog unless they realized how dogs worked, regardless of breed. Labradors and goldens are good, I mean, it's a retriever for god's sake, it's greatest instinct is to chase things down, but even though they are docile breeds, they can still be vicious. A lot of the new designer breeds of medium-large dogs are guard/ protection ones as well, so don't just fear pits.

Most attacks happen when a dog thinks it's territory is threatened, it's a good training method to the give the dog as small a piece of territory as you can. Sure, you can have a lot, but the dog has to know your territory isn't his, most owners don't do this, and I wouldn't trust their family dogs as far as I could kick them.

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is that if a breed of dog passes through several generations been bred more than in the past to fight and be vicious, the newer generations will act more upon that instinct. This hasn't been a problem for other breeds like Labrador Retrievers, hence why you don't hear these horror studies as much.

As far as bobcats go, if they're socialized and are had by a great breeder as kittens they can make good pets. The difference is that they need to be fed different diets like raw foods and are, like newer breeds of pitbulls, more likely to act on their instincts. That's where the part of dedication and knowledge comes in.


Not trying to make a point with this, just found it cute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRsHYEL1mrM

 

[Brigandier]

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is that if a breed of dog passes through several generations been bred more than in the past to fight and be vicious, the newer generations will act more upon that instinct. This hasn't been a problem for other breeds like Labrador Retrievers, hence why you don't hear these horror studies as much.

As far as bobcats go, if they're socialized and are had by a great breeder as kittens they can make good pets. The difference is that they need to be fed different diets like raw foods and are, like newer breeds of pitbulls, more likely to act on their instincts. That's where the part of dedication and knowledge comes in.


Not trying to make a point with this, just found it cute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRsHYEL1mrM

I guess I disagree with that assertion, pits and other larger breed dogs may be more prone to being alpha, but they still don't resort to "animal instincts." The reason you feed the bobcat as you do is because you don't want it getting hungry for something it wants to eat, if it gets hungry, it gets mean. Pit bulls are not at all like that.

When I hear of pit bulls running from their houses to attack someone, I just shake my head, a good dog should realize how big its yard is. I'd say most of the attacks aren't breed, they're upbringing, and I'd even grant pits are a hard breed to raise well, and so people should stay away from them. People think they can have a pit, but they end up with 60lbs of death that's a leash or door break from attacking.

If it was me, I'd feel bad any dog I raised would get to that level, most people, however, believe it's okay when dogs growl or bark at strangers, so they see this behavior in a bit and ignore it. My view is, pit bulls are fine, but humans that try to raise them are not. It takes a good person to raise a good dog, and I've seen it over and over again in my life. It's just that most people that want a dog but cannot raise one, get small dogs.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I guess I disagree with that assertion, pits and other larger breed dogs may be more prone to being alpha, but they still don't resort to "animal instincts." The reason you feed the bobcat as you do is because you don't want it getting hungry for something it wants to eat, if it gets hungry, it gets mean. Pit bulls are not at all like that.

When I hear of pit bulls running from their houses to attack someone, I just shake my head, a good dog should realize how big its yard is. I'd say most of the attacks aren't breed, they're upbringing, and I'd even grant pits are a hard breed to raise well, and so people should stay away from them. People think they can have a pit, but they end up with 60lbs of death that's a leash or door break from attacking.

If it was me, I'd feel bad any dog I raised would get to that level, most people, however, believe it's okay when dogs growl or bark at strangers, so they see this behavior in a bit and ignore it. My view is, pit bulls are fine, but humans that try to raise them are not. It takes a good person to raise a good dog, and I've seen it over and over again in my life. It's just that most people that want a dog but cannot raise one, get small dogs.

*sigh*

All right, whatever. You just don't get it.

As for the rest, I agree with most of it. Like I've said many times the breeder or owner is what makes the biggest difference in animal behavior.

 

[Brigandier]

*sigh*

All right, whatever. You just don't get it.

As for the rest, I agree with most of it. Like I've said many times the breeder or owner is what makes the biggest difference in animal behavior.

I'm trying to think slowly, so I'll get it. You're saying pits have been bred in the last 20 years to be more violent, so a random pit will have a higher chance of attacking than other animals. I can agree with this mathematically, and I would statistically be more afraid of a pit than other dogs.


However, I will not treat any medium to large dog with any more fear than another. Fear helps dogs attack, and if a dog is genetically predisposed to attacks, fearing it will help trigger those attacks.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I'm trying to think slowly, so I'll get it. You're saying pits have been bred in the last 20 years to be more violent, so a random pit will have a higher chance of attacking than other animals. I can agree with this mathematically, and I would statistically be more afraid of a pit than other dogs.


However, I will not treat any medium to large dog with any more fear than another. Fear helps dogs attack, and if a dog is genetically predisposed to attacks, fearing it will help trigger those attacks.

Right, and...?

I don't get how that's wrong; it makes sense.

I was referring in my first sentence in the last post to your first paragraph.

 

[mugs]

I completely concur, it'd help a lot of animal issues too. People need to be responsible for their beasts, letting your dog bite another should be a misdemeanor, and scale up from the injuries inflicted. I see it as no different than you dropping a gun in public and it harming another.

Simple solution - treat everything that the animal does as if it was an intentional act by the owner. How can anyone argue with that? If the animal attacks someone because its owner raised it badly, then of course the owner should be responsible for that. And if the animal attacks someone because it's inherently dangerous, then the owner should assume the risk of punishment because they're imposing the risk of attack on everyone around them. Either way, there's no reason the owner shouldn't be responsible for the actions of their pets.

 

[Brigandier]

Right, and...?

I don't get how that's wrong; it makes sense.

I was referring in my first sentence in the last post to your first paragraph.

Ah, I guess that's it. I don't thing doggits have animal instincts, they have domesticated instincts, some that were bred for their usefulness(such as chasing, attacking, or finding). Animals, like wolves and bobcats, have true animal instincts, they'll shy away or eat you, no real in between. That is probably an erroneous belief, but I cite the evidence that most domesticated animals wouldn't survive without humans. If they had animal instincts, they wouldn't really need us.

A dog acting out of fear, territory is not really being an animal. If he was really being an animal, he'd realize the territory is overrun and he has to go elsewhere for food. Dogs don't kill for food, not usually, so attributing attacks to animal instinct seems incorrect to me. Most dogs attack because they want to protect their and their master's territory, some attack because of the chase before, but I doubt many attack with their animal instincts. Territory could perhaps be attributed to an animal instinct, but I disregard it because a house dog's territory has no prey. A housecat's territory, on the other hand, will have lots of prey. Dogs attack because they think the pack needs it, that's only as animal as A-Type personalities.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Ah, I guess that's it. I don't thing doggits have animal instincts, they have domesticated instincts, some that were bred for their usefulness(such as chasing, attacking, or finding). Animals, like wolves and bobcats, have true animal instincts, they'll shy away or eat you, no real in between. That is probably an erroneous belief, but I cite the evidence that most domesticated animals wouldn't survive without humans. If they had animal instincts, they wouldn't really need us.

A dog acting out of fear, territory is not really being an animal. If he was really being an animal, he'd realize the territory is overrun and he has to go elsewhere for food. Dogs don't kill for food, not usually, so attributing attacks to animal instinct seems incorrect to me. Most dogs attack because they want to protect their and their master's territory, some attack because of the chase before, but I doubt many attack with their animal instincts. Territory could perhaps be attributed to an animal instinct, but I disregard it because a house dog's territory has no prey. A housecat's territory, on the other hand, will have lots of prey. Dogs attack because they think the pack needs it, that's only as animal as A-Type personalities.

LOL at you trying to compare wolves and bobcats. I guess that says everything I need to know.

Goodbye.

 

[Brigandier]

LOL at you trying to compare wolves and bobcats. I guess that says everything I need to know.

Goodbye.

Wolves and bobcats are two predators. They actually live all around me. I've never seen a bobcat, but I've seen tracks. I've seen wolf tracks, it looked like one wolf, because the whole pack walks print in print. Wolves and bobcats have a lot in common, they have more in common than dogs and bobcats.

Wolves and bobcats are both perfect walkers, dogs are not.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Wolves and bobcats are two predators. They actually live all around me. I've never seen a bobcat, but I've seen tracks. I've seen wolf tracks, it looked like one wolf, because the whole pack walks print in print. Wolves and bobcats have a lot in common, they have more in common than dogs and bobcats.

Wolves and bobcats are both perfect walkers, dogs are not.

Right, right, right.

Go troll somewhere else. Your arguments make no sense. Bobcats can be socialized a lot easier than a wolf. As a matter of fact, socializing and wolves are pretty much polar opposites. Wolves are much more vicious by instinct and a lot harder to tame, not to mention A LOT larger and heavier with more 'weapons' to kill, which makes for a deadly combination. Bobcats are medium-sized and range from 20-30 pounds, 40 for the fat ones. They have also been successfully socialized in many cases. You comparing them both is nonsensical.

 

[Brigandier]

Right, right, right.

Go troll somewhere else. Your arguments make no sense. Bobcats can be socialized a lot easier than a wolf. As a matter of fact, socializing and wolves are pretty much polar opposites. Wolves are much more vicious by instinct and a lot harder to tame, not to mention A LOT larger and heavier with more 'weapons' to kill, which makes for a deadly combination. Bobcats are medium-sized and range from 20-30 pounds, 40 for the fat ones. They have also been successfully socialized in many cases. You comparing them both is nonsensical.

May I have a bobcat socialization link? I've heard of people keeping cougars, but not bobcats.

I kinda feel those bobcats are as as socialized as the chimps in captivity. It's one thing having a pet, and having one in captivity. The bobcat won't fuck with you, it's not big enough and it's not stupid enough to get in a fight.

It was apt for me to compare bobcats and wolves, they're both perfect walkers, and top level predators.

The difference between a bobcat and a house cat is the same difference between a ferret and a pine marten. Guess what, there's one of each I'd keep in my house, guess which. You're confused, I think, comparing a wild animal with a domesticated maleficent breed. I'd have a pit over a bobcat any day. I'd have a goddamn rescue dog over a bobcat. Oh, and FYI, I live in an area with both bobcats and lynxes, and would take neither as my pet.

 

[Carfax83]

I've noticed that the victims in pitbull attacks tend to be either women or children, and not adult males.

I think some of the anti pitbull crowd here are overestimating how dangerous this dog is. A pitbull is truly no more dangerous than any other medium sized dog (unless you're a woman or a child), and is certainly no man stopper.

An adult man can easily fight off a pitbull if he keeps his wits about him. Even a woman can, but most people are simply too frightened to fight back.

I pity the pitbull that ever tries to attack me, because I will smash his ribs to kindling! :hmm:

Dogs generally speaking though are not efficient killers. Their teeth are relatively small and and their jaws weak from centuries of in breeding compared to their wild cousins. People that die from dog attacks tend to die from repeat biting which leads to blood loss.

Even coyotes have larger and more robust teeth than dogs much larger than them, let alone wolves.

As for bobcats, those damn things are dangerous! Far more so than a pitbull imo. Bobcats may be small, but they pack plenty of power and ferocity, plus they have a wild cat's killer instincts.

Bobcats have been known to take adult whitetail deer much bigger than themselves, and deer are much harder to take down than your average human.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

May I have a bobcat socialization link? I've heard of people keeping cougars, but not bobcats.

I kinda feel those bobcats are as as socialized as the chimps in captivity. It's one thing having a pet, and having one in captivity. The bobcat won't fuck with you, it's not big enough and it's not stupid enough to get in a fight.

It was apt for me to compare bobcats and wolves, they're both perfect walkers, and top level predators.

The difference between a bobcat and a house cat is the same difference between a ferret and a pine marten. Guess what, there's one of each I'd keep in my house, guess which. You're confused, I think, comparing a wild animal with a domesticated maleficent breed. I'd have a pit over a bobcat any day. I'd have a goddamn rescue dog over a bobcat. Oh, and FYI, I live in an area with both bobcats and lynxes, and would take neither as my pet.

Wow, you are clueless. And why the hell would you think that a cougar can be more social when they're used to attacking humans, are a lot more vicious, and live in mountains only when bobcats also live in suburbs and some cities and come close to humans quite a lot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-VgBgE3ThE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNF-kZISaFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyvL9h-JRLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecFukIIXWyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wneeX0-Znug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9W5u11V7LM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNXqrbAB2CQ
Poor bobcat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgDf78c8oWY
The dude and music are kinda weird but you get the point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpqr-dQeKz4

Bobcats can be highly socialized but it takes a lot of effort, like I said before. They've legal to have as well, but require either some permissions and/or a large amount of money to buy. You need to be very committed.

Do you even know what a bobcat is? No, it's not a tiger, and no, it's not a wolf. They're not domestic cats, but many of them live near people and interact with them. Like some dogs there's been incidents of them attacking someone, but I've yet to hear of one killing people. If you have an irrational fear of them that's your problem. They're 30 pound cats. If they fear you they'll probably run off.

 

[Brigandier]

Wow, you are clueless. And why the hell would you think that a cougar can be more social when they're used to attacking humans, are a lot more vicious, and live in mountains only when bobcats also live in suburbs and some cities and come close to humans quite a lot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-VgBgE3ThE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNF-kZISaFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyvL9h-JRLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecFukIIXWyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wneeX0-Znug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9W5u11V7LM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNXqrbAB2CQ
Poor bobcat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgDf78c8oWY
The dude and music are kinda weird but you get the point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpqr-dQeKz4

Bobcats can be highly socialized but it takes a lot of effort, like I said before. They've legal to have as well, but require either some permissions and/or a large amount of money to buy. You need to be very committed.

Do you even know what a bobcat is? No, it's not a tiger, and no, it's not a wolf. They're not domestic cats, but many of them live near people and interact with them. Like some dogs there's been incidents of them attacking someone, but I've yet to hear of one killing people. If you have an irrational fear of them that's your problem. They're 30 pound cats. If they fear you they'll probably run off.

Hey now, I asked for links on bobcat socialization, and you provided them; thank you.

Like I said before, I live in an area with bobcats and lynx, I know what one is. I also know how to tell the difference between a bobcat and lynx.