Yet another new car choice thread

[jjanders]

I'm currently in the process of whittling down my choices for a new car. The only real criteria are:

- FUN (by this I mean mostly handling/corners and torque, not necessarily tons of HP)
- Manual transmission
- $21K - $26K

From my research I've narrowed it down to the following:

- Mazdaspeed 3 (or even just a plain 3s)
- VW GTI
- Subaru WRX

Cars I am NOT considering:

- Mini Cooper
- Civic SI

Any I'm leaving off? I plan to go test drive all three on my list this coming weekend. The WRX is at the top of my budget range (guessing around $25-26K) and the 2009's aren't even out yet so it may be hard to get one. The Mazda and VW are more reasonably priced, I prefer the styling of the GTI but have always heard terrible things about VW reliability....but also heard the MkV GTI is pretty reliable.

Thoughts?

Also please note I am not interested in BMW so no 2002 M3 suggestions, please

 

[ViviTheMage]

audi 2.0T quattro, 6 speed

Love mine

 

[Arkaign]

Saturn Sky Redline (260hp/260tq/RWD/3000lbs/0-60 in 5.5)
Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart Turbo (237hp/226tq/AWD/Dual-Clutch/3450lbs/0-60 in 6.2)

I'd actually suggest the Ralliart, honestly. It's the *same* motor as the full EVO, just detuned a bit with a smaller turbo. All the plumbing and electronics are there, and the genius AWD system in place. Boosting from ~240 to ~315hp or so should be child's play, and well within the limits of the drivetrain as a whole. It's quick to begin with, and a monster in full tuned form.

 

[jjanders]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Saturn Sky Redline (260hp/260tq/RWD/3000lbs/0-60 in 5.5)
Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart Turbo (237hp/226tq/AWD/Dual-Clutch/3450lbs/0-60 in 6.2)

I'd actually suggest the Ralliart, honestly. It's the *same* motor as the full EVO, just detuned a bit with a smaller turbo. All the plumbing and electronics are there, and the genius AWD system in place. Boosting from ~240 to ~315hp or so should be child's play, and well within the limits of the drivetrain as a whole. It's quick to begin with, and a monster in full tuned form.

How does the dual clutch on the Ralliart work? The only reason I didn't look into it is because it has that and not a manual....but I'm not too familiar with how they work.

 

[thedarkwolf]

WRX because it ain't fwd

 

[Arkaign]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox <--- info on Dual-Clutch systems, and here's some more from a recent review :

Mitsubishi only is offering the Evolution MR?s 6-speed TC-SST (Twin Clutch-Sportronic Shift Transmission) automated manual on the Ralliart, with new programming and taller 5th and 6th gear ratios (for better fuel economy) the only differences between the two variants.

Like the Evo, the AWD system is adjustable for tarmac, gravel and snowy conditions, while the TC-SST can be switched between normal and rapid-fire sport modes.

A brief jaunt around the rolling hills here reveals the new Ralliart to be very well rounded. It feels sportier than the WRX but not punishing, and the dual-clutch gearbox is equally adept at performance driving and lazy commuting.

Although scheduling prevented probing the Ralliart?s limits, a few laps in an Evo X around the twisty Waterford Hills racetrack reminds us how nimble and capable Mitsubishi?s AWD tuning can make the Lancer?s chassis feel.

The Ralliart?s interior is nearly identical to other Lancers and is well equipped with a full slate of airbags, keyless entry and Bluetooth connectivity.

 

[DougK62]

Cobalt SS. It's fairly dominant in most performance categories for the cash.

 

[Mursilis]

Mustang GT.

 

[Jumpem]

If you want handling and fun look at a Miata. Not the quickest but very fun to drive.

 

[jjanders]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
If you want handling and fun look at a Miata. Not the quickest but very fun to drive.

Considered it, but I'm pretty tall and didn't fit very well in it.

As to the person suggesting a Mustang, I've never driven one but from what I heard they aren't the best handlers, and I prefer something a bit smaller/lightweight.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: jjanders

Originally posted by: Jumpem
If you want handling and fun look at a Miata. Not the quickest but very fun to drive.

Considered it, but I'm pretty tall and didn't fit very well in it.

As to the person suggesting a Mustang, I've never driven one but from what I heard they aren't the best handlers, and I prefer something a bit smaller/lightweight.

They are heavy but handling is decent for what it is...at least on the latest platform. The older models are not nearly as good.

My biggest gripe with the Mustang is the cheap-assed interior.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jjanders

Originally posted by: Jumpem
If you want handling and fun look at a Miata. Not the quickest but very fun to drive.

Considered it, but I'm pretty tall and didn't fit very well in it.

As to the person suggesting a Mustang, I've never driven one but from what I heard they aren't the best handlers, and I prefer something a bit smaller/lightweight.

cue zenmervolt

 

[PhoKingGuy]

VW GTI +1, I love mine. Zippy as hell around town and 26 MPG. No one I know has had any problems with their MKV GTI.

 

[MiataNC]

Of the cars you listed... MazdaSpeed3

I narrowed my choices down to the 2008.5 MS3 or 2008 RX-8 40th Anniversary Edition. They made me a sweet deal on the RX, so I passed on the MS3. I went with the RX, because I am a huge fan of the rotary engine, and I wanted something more upscale than a hot hatch.

When you drive the Speed3, make sure they have 91 octane in the tank. Otherwise it won't feel as fast as it really is. The MS3 is a beast.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: MiataNC
Of the cars you listed... MazdaSpeed3

I narrowed my choices down to the 2008.5 MS3 or 2008 RX-8 40th Anniversary Edition. They made me a sweet deal on the RX, so I passed on the MS3. I went with the RX, because I am a huge fan of the rotary engine, and I wanted something more upscale than a hot hatch.

When you drive the Speed3, make sure they have 91 octane in the tank. Otherwise it won't feel as fast as it really is. The MS3 is a beast.

RX = RWD
MS3 = high power FWD

I drove a Speed3, and man, you have to be hella careful applying throttle during curves, as it will understeer you like mad. Great powerplant and chassis, just wish the damned thing was AWD or RWD.

Lancer Ralliart + turbo mod = pwn.

 

[theeedude]

MX-5

 

[MBentz]

C5 Z06.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: MBentz
C5 Z06.

If the OP would consider used, then that would be a hands-down winner. Get a C5 Z06 + a Roots or Whipple kit, and with a couple of other mods you can hit 600+hp with ease, outrunning Z06s, and within spitting distance of ZR-1. Not quite as nimble as the C6, but a true American badass nonetheless.

 

[Juddog]

I'm going to suggest the Mazdaspeed 3. Huge user community based around mods, plenty of performance tweaks / parts. With the amount of money you're thinking about it fits perfectly, and if you have extra left over you can buy more parts to tweak it out.

 

[Arkaign]

The Speed3 is a pretty limited platform though. FWD can only be taken so far, and even stock, you have issues putting power down through curves. Either the WRX or Lancer will eat it alive after equal mods.

 

[dotcom173]

so a car has already been purchased, or am i misreading?

if no decision has been made, why not a 2009 wrx...it supposed to be under 25k and will boast 263hp or something like that...then factor in AWD. sure the interior isnt the greatest, but you cant deny the boxer rumble.

P.S. i dont own a subaru, but i wouldnt mind having one, or a mazdaspeed3

or an rx-8 for that matter....basically im saying that im not biased.

EDIT: i guess the person who had made the decision on an rx-8 wasnt the OP, so get a subie!

or even a slightly used 2006 STi owned by a geezer might be an idea.

 

[Xyclone]

If you don't care about rear passenger comfort, consider the MINI. Unless you are abnormally tall (read, taller than 6'6" or so), you should be able to fit comfortably in it. My friend is 6'2" and there is plenty of headroom above his head in his MCS. I am 5'11" or so, and I am very comfortable in my MCS. Plus, are you ready to shell out at the pump for the Mazdaspeed3? The Speed3 gets 18/26, whereas the MCS gets 26/34. It is also much lighter than the Speed3 (kind of fat). Food for thought...

EDIT: I guarantee you the MCS is the most fun out of all the cars you listed. Wheels in the corners, check. ~2600 lb, check. Overboost feature from the factory (stock), bringing the psi from 12 to 15 psi and raising HP to 195, check. Twin-scroll turbo ensuring you have max torque throughout the powerband (max tq at 1500 rpm), check. Test drive it.

 

[zerocool84]

The MS3 needs 93 to get maximum power. In Cali like me, you're f'd but you're not. High powered FWD cars take LOT'S of practice. Trust me. I still can't take off perfect all the time. Also when exiting a turn and hitting the throttle, the torque steer could get you if the wheel hop doesn't. The Ralliart is slower than the base WRX. If you're looking just for speed that's not good but it should handle well cus of the great chassis it's on. RX-8 is a car to get for looks. You can get a car that handles better, is faster, and gets better MPG for less money but it sure does look good. The new WRX is a steal I think. They just updated it massively. It's faster and handles better than last year. The new WRX is great and something that was needed for Subaru with all the new competition. But I still love my car and would never get any of these. I like having a car that I don't see all the time.

 

[dotcom173]

i can somewhat vouch for what Xyclone says. my dad and i test drove a MCS and it was definitely very comfortable, both of us being just over 6 foot. power-wise, it seems really quick, however, i havent driven a speed3, but i have driven a 2006 wrx.

it handles like its on rails and seems very lightweight. however, why would peak torque at 1500rpm be a plus? that sounds almost worse than peak torque at high rpms. that means you'd be making the most power at an rpm you'd rarely be at except in 1st gear for a split second. i guess id have to see the power curve, but from what i remember it did seem pretty torquey.

 

[MiataNC]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
...RX-8 is a car to get for looks. You can get a car that handles better, is faster, and gets better MPG for less money but it sure does look good....

You will be hard pressed to find a car that handles better than the RX-8 off the show room floor at the @34K price point. It dominates in autocross (stock) and is THE car to beat.

Yes there are faster cars out there, but unless you are a street racing idiot, the RX-8 is plenty fast. As a total package it consistently rates higher than "faster" cars when reviewed by professional drivers and publications.

You are 100% correct about the MPG. I average about 13mpg flogging mine in the city. But I don't mind, because I knew that was the price of admission with a rotary engine.