Yet another, "my friend" thread.

[VirtualLarry]

I've built quite a few G4560, and before that, the G3258, rigs. Haven't sold all of them, sent one of them to a lucky AT'er (you know who you are), and I sold one G4560 rig to this friend of mine, that has a semi-ancient Athlon II X4 rig. Granted, it has 16GB of DDR2 (thanks to some 4GB DDR2 modules from a China seller on ebay, cheap), and an SSD (thanks to me), and a dGPU (some entry-level GT6xx series).

Fine for "usual" browsing, not that great for gaming.

I sold him that G4560 rig, on a payment plan, and after the first year, he couldn't continue the payments, so I took it back and gave him a refund.

So, a few months ago, I had some G3258 parts floating around NIB, so I threw together a nice little (ok, ATX mid-tower case, white, looking nice and vaguely a little Star Wars-ish) rig for him, in case his Athlon II gave out. (He was making noises that that might be the case.) I didn't sell it to him, I told him he could have it, but if he got out of debt, and felt like donating $100 to me, to cover some of the costs, feel free. (I think it cost me $250 for parts.)

It's not a bad machine, but not really gaming-worthy, either. He now wants to play Soul Calibur 6 when it comes out.

I'm not giving him a complete gaming rig, if that's what he thinks. There's not even a dGPU in the G3258 rig, it has a mobo with HDMI out.

Basically, I sold him a decent, if entry-level nearly two years ago, gaming rig. He screwed that up, so I don't feel like hooking him up with another one, unless he actually gives me some $$$.

Now, he has paid me for some parts, like his cable modem and router, that I picked up for him, at a discount.

I do have an HP Power Gaming PC, with an i5-7400, GTX 1060 3GB, and 8GB DDR4 (dual-channel). I added a 240GB SSD. Paid $500+tax OTD last BF-ish at Walmart. Still have the box in storage.

If he wants a "real" gaming rig, well, I'd be happy to sell him that one, for $600 (with the 240GB SSD added). I figure that's fair. They're going for $700 on ebay, without an SSD, just a 1TB HDD.

I think that he has yet to actually hook up the G3258 rig and try it.

Which is basically what he did with the G4560 rig, he never used it, for like a year.

I don't get it. I try to help the guy out, he doesn't have much, but I don't have a lot either. I just spend my $$$ on technology. I try to help friends out, but he doesn't seem to care much.

Edit: I mean, he sometimes complains that his main PC is slow, or acting up, or the internet's flaky, like once a week it seems. He's been better lately, but he used to complain often.

I told him that I had a basically-complete but well-used (mining) Ryzen 5 1600 rig, with an RX 470 (that's kind of flaky, it seems, with HDMI 2.0 4K UHD, mines fine otherwise), for $450, but that would cost him actual $$$, so he wasn't interested.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I guess my question / point is, what, if anything, should I do about this friend / his rig? Can I turn a G3258 into a usable SC6 PC machine? What dGPU would you folks recommend? (I've got a spare GTX950 2GB, almost new.)

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=35431&game=SoulCalibur VI

 

[ibex333]

That GTX 950, should be fine, but I think he'd be fine with as little as an RX 460. I wouldn't recommend going below that, although if ok with ultra low everything and lowered resolution, even a GT 1030 can suffice.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I guess that I can hook him up with the GTX950 2GB GDDR5 card. That's actually the SAME card, that was in the G4560 / 16GB / 240GB gaming rig that I sold him. (I think the actual exact card). Either that, or I could take back the G3258 rig, if he hasn't hooked it up and used it, and then give him a Ryzen 3 1200 @ 3.8Ghz rig that I've got in storage, and I think one of them also has a GTX950 2GB card in it. That might be a tad better for gaming than the G3258 @ 4.2Ghz, being a true quad-core. Though the G3258 @ 4.2Ghz would be better for emulators, I think that I told him that, he wanted to set up emulators.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I sold the GTX 950 2GB GDDR5 card to some AT'er (thanks man!), and my friend was telling me on Skype, that he had to disconnect from Skype, otherwise it would mess up his Twitch stream.

I told him he needs to get a new PC, his isn't powerful enough anymore, if he needs to be shutting stuff down like Skype that's meant to run in the background, while he does other stuff.

Seems crazy to me.

I mentioned hooking up the G3258 @ 4.x Ghz that I GAVE him, he basically said that he couldn't be bothered, unless it's a real gaming PC, can stream (upload) to Twitch, etc.

I was like, dude? I offered him my HP Power Gaming PC for under $600, he was like, "that's not going to happen, need money".

Well, GL getting someone to give it to you.

Granted, I was going to send the HP Gaming PC to someone in Canada, still need to work that out. But a paying customer would come first.

 

[JWade]

I have dealt with a lot of friends like this one of yours with thier computers. I do the same thing often, donate to friends systems. majority of the time when they say thier computers have been slowing down and acting up, I have them bring it over, they tend to have downloaded a lot of malware/spyware/toolbars out the yazoo. I erase and reload, give it back, and its a fast computer again for a month or so, then the cycle starts all over again.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think that perhaps maybe he got some mining malware on there. Or maybe, the Athlon II X4 is old enough, that it doesn't have crypto / AES instructions in the CPU for H/W crypto offload, so the Skype in the background is routing calls, and chewing up his CPU besides. That's the only thing that I can think of.

He called me yesterday afternoon, his internet was "slow". He's on cable, and was only getting 170Mbit/sec speedtests, rather than 200+Mbit/sec speedtests. His PS4 was still showing 220+Mbit/sec down though. So perhaps, something is bogging down his PC?

I know that when I am mining (explicitly, not a malware / trojan), my FIOS connection slows down on my PC, last week, it was dropping down to below 300Mbit/sec, but would register as 940Mbit/sec if I stopped mining. After I upgraded the RAM to 32GB and overclocked to 3.80Ghz, my current rig will give me 500+Mbit/sec down, and 920Mbit/sec up, while mining, which is way better. Still can't do 4K YouTube while mining, though, for some reason.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I've decided, that I'm going to help my friend upgrade, as best that I can, with his existing machine.

Athlon II X4 -> Phenom II X6 off of ebay
GT610 -> EVGA GTX 1050 3GB (new) off of ebay
ThermalTake TR2-430 -> EVGA G1+ 80Plus Gold Modular 750W (new) off of ebay
Crucial M500 128GB SATA -> Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA off of Newegg, or possibly a Gigabyte UD Pro 512GB off of ebay
Windows 7 64-bit -> Windows 10 64-bit (on the new 500GB SSD)

That way, he can leverage his existing AM2 (so old!) mobo, and his 16GB of DDR2 RAM, and then upgrade the CPU, GPU, SSD, and optionally the PSU, and install Windows 10 for gaming.

 

[whm1974]

Well, I've decided, that I'm going to help my friend upgrade, as best that I can, with his existing machine.

Athlon II X4 -> Phenom II X6 off of ebay
GT610 -> EVGA GTX 1050 3GB (new) off of ebay
ThermalTake TR2-430 -> EVGA G1+ 80Plus Gold Modular 750W (new) off of ebay
Crucial M500 128GB SATA -> Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA off of Newegg, or possibly a Gigabyte UD Pro 512GB off of ebay
Windows 7 64-bit -> Windows 10 64-bit (on the new 500GB SSD)

That way, he can leverage his existing AM2 (so old!) mobo, and his 16GB of DDR2 RAM, and then upgrade the CPU, GPU, SSD, and optionally the PSU, and install Windows 10 for gaming.

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on such an old machine. You are not doing this for free are you?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on such an old machine. You are not doing this for free are you?

Well, it would be upgrading everything, except for the mobo, RAM, and case.

Granted, I should just go whole-hog, and put in a 2200G or something, and 16GB of DDR4. But he likes Windows 7, and that case and board.

As far as "free" - I haven't broached the subject of payment yet.

I guess I feel like, "now" is a good time to buy these parts, prices on SSDs are going down, prices on PSU and GPUs are kind of soft right now due to reduced mining demand, and with the specter of tariffs coming up Real Soon Now, it seems like the idea time to buy.

Unfortunately, I need to pay back a relative, basically all of my free money for this month.

 

[whm1974]

Well, it would be upgrading everything, except for the mobo, RAM, and case.

Granted, I should just go whole-hog, and put in a 2200G or something, and 16GB of DDR4. But he likes Windows 7, and that case and board.

As far as "free" - I haven't broached the subject of payment yet.

I guess I feel like, "now" is a good time to buy these parts, prices on SSDs are going down, prices on PSU and GPUs are kind of soft right now due to reduced mining demand, and with the specter of tariffs coming up Real Soon Now, it seems like the idea time to buy.

Unfortunately, I need to pay back a relative, basically all of my free money for this month.

Have your "friend" buy the parts and charge him at least $20 to install them and setup everything.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Have your "friend" buy the parts and charge him at least $20 to install them and setup everything.

His friend is a deadbeat. Have you not read this thread? Let alone other Larry threads talking about the same friend? Cut your losses Larry and stop talking to your free loading friend.

 

[whm1974]

His friend is a deadbeat. Have you not read this thread? Let alone other Larry threads talking about the same friend? Cut your losses Larry and stop talking to your free loading friend.

Which is why the "friend" should buy the parts. But you are right Larry should cut is his losses and quit talking to his friend.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Which is why the "friend" should buy the parts. But you are right Larry should cut is his losses and quit talking to his friend.

Right you are but as I said. Have you not read the "Larry" posts? Go through the archives. He cuts the guy slack, offers interest free loans to his friend. All his friend wants is a five finger discount with white glove delivery by Larry.

 

[whm1974]

Right you are but as I said. Have you not read the "Larry" posts? Go through the archives. He cuts the guy slack, offers interest free loans to his friend. All his friend wants is a five finger discount with white glove delivery by Larry.

I've been reading Larry's posts about his "friend" for about as long as he has been posting them.

 

[VirtualLarry]

His friend is a deadbeat. Have you not read this thread? Let alone other Larry threads talking about the same friend? Cut your losses Larry and stop talking to your free loading friend.

Well, not entirely. My friend with the Athlon II X4, wants free stuff, or otherwise looks a gift horse in the mouth, but he has always paid me back, eventually, for money that I've loaned him or things I've sold him on credit. He's not quite a deadbeat. Not to me at least. To his credit, he was working the last five years too.

I've got a another friend, slightly farther away, that just got a new job, and he used to borrow money from me a lot, back in the day, but generally, never quite paid me back. So, he's more of a deadbeat, or used to be. We'll see if he pays me back for the PC I sold him on credit at the beginning of the year. (Well, I gave him a PC, but he said, it was too slow, so I gave him a better one, and he said he'd pay me the difference between the PCs. So I'll wait for a while, and see if I get anything from it.)

That's kind of why I'm not totally afraid to spend $300-400 to upgrade the Athlon II X4 PC for the first friend, as I figure I will eventually get it back. It might take 2-3 years, at his current rate, but he'll get me back... eventually.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Well, not entirely. My friend with the Athlon II X4, wants free stuff, or otherwise looks a gift horse in the mouth, but he has always paid me back, eventually, for money that I've loaned him or things I've sold him on credit. He's not quite a deadbeat. Not to me at least. To his credit, he was working the last five years too.

I've got a another friend, slightly farther away, that just got a new job, and he used to borrow money from me a lot, back in the day, but generally, never quite paid me back. So, he's more of a deadbeat, or used to be. We'll see if he pays me back for the PC I sold him on credit at the beginning of the year. (Well, I gave him a PC, but he said, it was too slow, so I gave him a better one, and he said he'd pay me the difference between the PCs. So I'll wait for a while, and see if I get anything from it.)

That's kind of why I'm not totally afraid to spend $300-400 to upgrade the Athlon II X4 PC for the first friend, as I figure I will eventually get it back. It might take 2-3 years, at his current rate, but he'll get me back... eventually.

Larry, why not let your friends buy the parts for you? Then at least you are out only labor for installing the components?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I'm going to talk to him about that, but chances are, he won't have the money this month. Neither do I, but I'm hopeful I might be able to sell something and make a few bucks. I want to get a GTX 1050 3GB, for at least him, and maybe one for me too, though I prefer AMD, and was thinking of a 4GB RX 560 or 570. Or I could just take an 8GB RX 570 out of one of my mining rigs.

Edit: I could maybe give/sell him my RX 470 4GB, it's pretty well-used, from mining, but would probably serve OK in a gaming capacity for a few more years. I also have an MX500 250GB that bought recently for $50, I could sell him that one, although I should charge him $100, because I upgraded him last time from a free 30GB SSD to a free 120GB M500, which has been reliable thus far, but was somewhat filling up.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ok, a recap.

I've got:
Many PCs. Pulled 2x Ryzen 1200 rigs, OCed to 3.80Ghz, with 8GB DDR4-2400, 256GB M.2 NVMe, 1TB 7200 HDD, both with various video cards (one had a GTX950 in it), that I'm in the process of replacing with 3GB GTX1050 cards, to sell as gaming rigs.

Also, have a couple of Ryzen 2200G rigs, 8GB of DDR4, various SSDs and whatnot. Would be GREAT for a web-browser / YT/Twitch machine. (What my friend mostly does right now with his PC.) I tested the one I current have out, and it was watching 4K60 YT (I assume VP9, though I don't remember exactly if it was), and it was smooth as silk with that rig, and my Gigabit wired FIOS connection.

Also pulled a G3258 @ 4.20Ghz / 16GB DDR3-1600 / SSD rig out of my "warehouse". Grabbed it, because the box said GTX950 on it, and I want to see if I have another GTX950 bumping around.

So, my friend, currently has an Athlon II X4 CPU, 16GB of DDR2, 120GB SSD, Win7 64-bit.

I gave my friend a G3258 rig @ 4.20Ghz, but last time I was over there, I hooked it up, and it promptly blue-screened, so I cranked it down to 4.0Ghz at a lower vcore. Should be stable at that setting. Forgot how much RAM it has, but it had an SSD as well, but no dGPU.

So, I pulled a GTX950 2GB out of one of my Ryzen 1200 rigs, and I can sell / give it to my friend. (Would prefer to sell it, as I paid $120 for it originally.)

I have a pair of (old, well-used, but working) AM3/AM3+ rigs, both with Phenom II X6 1045T 95W CPUs, one of which would drop into my friend's AM2+ board.

Debating on whether I should put the spare GTX950 2GB card, into the G3258 rig, or the AM2+ rig, and additionally drop in the X6 1045T, and maybe OC it from 2.7 (base) to 3.0 (turbo, but AMD's original turbo feature only cranked three cores at a time). DRAM issues permitting, of course, since that's not an unlocked CPU, I would have to bus overclock, which would affect the DRAM, and that's a little dicey, being 4x4GB DDR2. Maybe I shouldn't OC.

Goal, would be better video (YT / Twitch) watching, better overall performance, etc.

I hate to waste a working 16GB DDR2 rig, by upgrading the whole platform, but the 2200G seems like it would be perfect for him, and if he needed better graphics performance, if he decided to start playing games on his PC rather than PSx, he could still drop in a dGPU, and a rig that modern could use an NVMe SSD as well, gaining him even more performance.

But I don't think that I should give away one of my 2200G rigs for free. (Although, I did already, to a different friend.)

Ideally, I would build "His and Hers" 2200G rigs, matching (except possibly for a dGPU for him for gaming), for him and his GF, but I would want to be paid at least nominally for that.

I just upgraded her FM1 rig, with a quad-core A6-3600 APU, to be able for him to watch Twitch.tv HD (720P) streams at her place, because it was pausing / freezing doing do with the dual-core APU. Which really tells me that it was using Software decoding, most likely.

A Ryzen 2200G would remove all of those issues. But again, it costs $$$. (Not a lot, though. Possibly, I was considering maybe a couple of Athlon 200GE rigs instead. That might work, should still be worlds better than the FM1 APUs for video-watching online, and enough grunt to play some games with, if need be, at 720P.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

A proposed build, for His and Hers.

Athlon 200GE 2C/4T Ryzen APU $60 @ Newegg

ASRock A320M-HDV AM4 micro-ATX mobo $40 @ Newegg (recent sale, now over)
OR
Some other B350 micro-ATX board, for $50-60.
OR
Step up to an MSI B450-A Pro ATX board, pretty deluxe features, VRM heatsinks, but ATX, so would require an ATX case. $80 - $10 MIR + $4 ship.

Rosewill Galaxy-01 and Galaxy-02 ATX cases were recently $20 ea. shipped @ Newegg , but they're both sold out now.

Intel 545s 256GB SATA 2.5" SSD, $52 @ Newegg (recent sale), or a Crucial MX500 250GB SATA (new, off of ebay) for $50.

OR maybe

an Adata SX6000 NVMe SSD, $55 for 256GB, $92 for 512GB, @ Newegg recently. (I don't believe that the A320M board has an M.2 slot, but the B350/B450 boards should.)

Edit: Given the success and longevity of my friend AM2+ board, in terms of lasting this long, and still having upgrade potential, I'm thinking, that perhaps I should consider making these builds ATX, and go with a decent board, a B450/X470, that would leave open future possibilities of using an regular AM4 Ryzen CPU (Zen+, Zen2), in the future, and being able to overclock it safely.

For example, getting the MSI B450-A Pro board for $80, and dropping in a 200GE for NOW, and then in two years, drop in a 2700X when they drop to $100-150 (maybe used?), and a similarly-cheap RX 570 / 580 / 590 / whatever mid-range AMD GPU is out at that time.

 

[BSim500]

Given how many of these "my debt saturated friend doesn't really want a PC and can't pay for it, but I'm determined to build not just one but now two for him anyway and hope he'll eventually use a high-end 2700X even though I had to reclaim even the previous Pentium G4560 because he couldn't afford that..." threads, honestly Larry, just step back, give the guy a little space and put your parts up on EBay instead. I'm absolutely serious.

What does your friend actually want for himself (vs you buying for him as if he were you). Does his GF actually want "matching his & hers" PC's? What does she use them for? Watching Youtube / Twitch or "liking" something on Facebook can be done on an 8-10" Amazon Fire Tablet for a fraction of what you're trying to sell. She may even already own one.

Best advice : You've already reclaimed a G4560 Pentium from him because he couldn't even afford that. A chip that was selling literally for £39 brand new (inc 20% VAT, so that's more like £33 exc Tax) here in the UK not that long ago. And he couldn't afford even that. He's obviously in dire financial trouble, that alone is just humiliating for the guy and he's probably only agreeing to let you help him to save face / be polite. Don't put him through it again (especially in front of his GF). If and when his financial situation changes and he develops a genuine serious interest in PC gaming, then let him come to you. Let Him Come To You.

Right now given the Intel shortage, you are far better off selling unused owned Intel CPU's on Ebay. In the UK, those £39 G4560's a few months back are now priced at +£70 in store and going for £50-£60 on Ebay (with used i5-7500's going for nearer £120-£135...) From what I've seen of the US market, things are just as inflated over there. If I were you, I'd stop "pushing on a piece of string and hoping it'll go in a straight line" with this guy and simply sell what you don't need on Ebay given it's a seller's market right now. Given how long you've been posting about his situation, by the time he does get things sorted financially, it sounds like anything you build him today will be outdated and need upgrading again...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, OK, but he has no problems, arranging for a trip to a video-game tournament out of state, or dropping $200 on a new fight stick.

He's sort-of "debt saturated", but part of that is, his GF wants take-out food like every night. And he gives that to her. (They live near a grocery too, so location / distance isn't an excuse. He actually believes, somehow, that ordering food to be delivered, is cheaper than a grocery store and using his electric stove. So there's that.)

As far as the "His and Hers" goes, that would be based on his most recent complaint, that her PC was slower than his, and not capable of doing what he likes to use his PC for, at her place.

I thought that getting them matching PCs, more or less, would eliminate that complaint.

He semi-regularly complains to me that his PC is too slow. So that's why I gave him the overclocked G3258. It wasn't hugely expensive, and it was, according to CPU-Z's benchmark, faster than his current Athlon X4.

He makes overtures about wanting to do PC Gaming, but has told me that my G4560 / 16GB DDR4 / GTX950 2GB GDDR5 / 240GB SSD rig, that I was selling him before, for $25/mo, basically, "wasn't 'pro' enough for his skillz". (Even though, he's not a mouse/keyboard gamer anyways.) He wants to do "Game Streaming", and be "a big name", basically.

But he doesn't want to pay me for that hypothetical 'Pro' rig.

So yeah, he WANTS something like a 2700X rig, eventually, but doesn't have the means, nor desire, to actually save anything to pay for it.

I was trying to make it easy for him, to pay for the G4560 rig, over two years, but he couldn't even do that.

 

[BSim500]

He's sort-of "debt saturated", but part of that is, his GF wants take-out food like every night. And he gives that to her. He actually believes, somehow, that ordering food to be delivered, is cheaper than a grocery store and using his electric stove.

Can you not upgrade both him and his GF? Maybe replace their 2x IQ80 chips with 2x IQ120's?

He makes overtures about wanting to do PC Gaming, but has told me that my G4560 / 16GB DDR4 / GTX950 2GB GDDR5 / 240GB SSD rig, that I was selling him before, for $25/mo, basically, "wasn't 'pro' enough for his skillz". (Even though, he's not a mouse/keyboard gamer anyways.) He wants to do "Game Streaming", and be "a big name", basically. But he doesn't want to pay me for that hypothetical 'Pro' rig. So yeah, he WANTS something like a 2700X rig, eventually, but doesn't have the means, nor desire, to actually save anything to pay for it.

I think... I know the type... Honestly it sounds like he just needs to just buy a console and be repeatedly told how badass and 'leet' he is. Yeah, I'd definitely start backing away from offering "help" at that point... You seem like a good guy Larry, but there are some battles you just cant win...

 

[VirtualLarry]

oes his GF actually want "matching his & hers" PC's? What does she use them for? Watching Youtube / Twitch or "liking" something on Facebook can be done on an 8-10" Amazon Fire Tablet for a fraction of what you're trying to sell. She may even already own one.

Just a note here, too. Both my friend and his GF prefer PCs, it seems. Although, I gave both of them matching His and Hers Android tablets, a few years back. Don't think that he's ever opened his (battery's probably shot by now), but she was using hers occasionally.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Goal, would be better video (YT / Twitch) watching, better overall performance, etc.

I think that I am going to in fact propose a solution for both of them, that basically includes adding a Radeon RX 550 or 560 (probably 2GB), or if those would give me issues with "legacy BIOS" (2010-2011 era hardware), then maybe a GT1030. (EVGA had a DDR4 model for $59.99 on their site before, I don't know if it's still on there.)

Edit: After reviewing several potential issues with their monitors, specifically because her monitor is currently connected via VGA, and I don't know if it supports DVI or HDMI at all (it was a hand-me-down), I've decided to go with a pair of GT 730 cards. I found some GDDR5 2GB models for $54.99 from Newegg. They're refurb, but OC models. Hopefully, they work out alright.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-GeForc...B-64-Bit-GDDR5-PCI-Express-2-0-x/302923033495

I was reading WikiPedia's page on NV VPU generations, and apparently, they pre-date support for VP9 hardware decode, which is used heavily on YouTube. It also doesn't support (full hardware decode of) HEVC / H.265, apparently. In fact, it's hardly better than the FM1 APU, I think, although it will decode 4K H.264, supposedly, and supports 4K60 output over HDMI. So that's a benefit.

Hopefully, I didn't make a mistake. I would have picked up another pair of REFURB RX 560 2GB Sapphire cards, if they were available. They've popped up at least twice so far, for $69.99 @ Newegg. I snagged one for my own rig recently.

Edit: Of course, then she would have had to upgrade / replace her monitor, if it didn't support DVI in addition to VGA.