Yet another MTG Thread -- Crazy Is As Crazy Does

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
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While I continually rail against the tendency I see among liberals to chalk up conservatism to stupidity, this really does sound like a comment that could only be generated by somebody with a low IQ.
Not so sure it's stupidity, it could also be malevolence but I would bet on wilful ignorance. Wilful ignorance is like faith, no matter the evidence to the contrary the ignorance will still prevail even if it forces you to disregard your own senses and indeed reality itself.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Well, seeing as if Greene seems to have the support of her electorate noting that not a peep from them have come out criticizing her silly rabble rousing antics, one can only assume those fools who put her in office are just like her and that cocky intellectually barren attitude she likes to shove in people's faces.

I guess her supporters wanted to send a message to the nation that they're displeased how they're being treated and sending Greene to DC will get their message across....of what, I have no idea.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,687
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Not so sure it's stupidity, it could also be malevolence but I would bet on wilful ignorance. Wilful ignorance is like faith, no matter the evidence to the contrary the ignorance will still prevail even if it forces you to disregard your own senses and indeed reality itself.
Michael, I have spent a lot of time reflecting on what makes people tick, particularly regarding what motivates them to behave as they do, and while I don't doubt it may sound conceited of me to say so, I am way past thinking in the terms you use. In the first place I have a very different , I would say, far more sophisticated sense of what evil really is than, as is what I see as the usual, that people have evil in them they act out. What I mean by this is that I think people assume evil to be real and a force in human nature or even a force that exists in the universe itself in the form of some corrupting malevolent being. Particularly that latter invention, the devil, etc., is a bunch of horse shit to me.

Similarly with willful ignorance. I don't have a problem with the words but I can't stop with that. I want to know why such willfulness exists. Just saying it is there is meaningless to me. So all of the attributes you may want to ascribe to it, while they may be perfectly accurate, only describe the symptoms and not the cause.

Why do people appear to be malevolent or willfully ignorant, Michael, what makes them that way? And in particular, and this is very very important in my opinion, are they to blame for how they are? Could they or should they be different. Why do they not change for the better and could anything make them or help the to change? If we cannot answer the question as to why people differ in their capacity to do good or listen to reason, how will we properly evaluate the human condition.

Like Einsteins incomprehensible insight into the nature of time and space, matter and energy, there is a very simple, in this case equation that throws light on the matter, of course in my opinion.

The answer, I believe is that the reason that people act as we speak about here is that their ignorance is a matter of life and death, that we are psychically dead and do not want to know it. And the reason we are dead is because, once long ago we were told a lie too difficult to live with, that we are worthless as human beings, each worse than everyone else. And the only way to know this is true is to feel it, in other world to relive one's psychic death all over again. Naturally, there are also a million ways those of us with some integrity left, who survive in denial with a breathing tube, find to avoid confrontation with those deeply repressed feelings. The thing that saves, I guess you could say, is that our deepest nature, not what we feel but our true potential, is to be gods, so to speak. We become instead professional egotists, but not knowing the substitute nature of that form of self delusion, we have to constantly be on guard to protect of substitute integrity. Willfully ignorant them might just as well be called willfully conceited.

Unfortunately, while that is easy to see in others, we don't see it in ourselves, generally speaking.

And because we had to become as we are to survive pain no child can consciously bear, no sin can be attributed beyond this original sin. We denied that God is within and all the rest follows out of that.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
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Michael, I have spent a lot of time reflecting on what makes people tick, particularly regarding what motivates them to behave as they do, and while I don't doubt it may sound conceited of me to say so, I am way past thinking in the terms you use. In the first place I have a very different , I would say, far more sophisticated sense of what evil really is than, as is what I see as the usual, that people have evil in them they act out. What I mean by this is that I think people assume evil to be real and a force in human nature or even a force that exists in the universe itself in the form of some corrupting malevolent being. Particularly that latter invention, the devil, etc., is a bunch of horse shit to me.

Similarly with willful ignorance. I don't have a problem with the words but I can't stop with that. I want to know why such willfulness exists. Just saying it is there is meaningless to me. So all of the attributes you may want to ascribe to it, while they may be perfectly accurate, only describe the symptoms and not the cause.

Why do people appear to be malevolent or willfully ignorant, Michael, what makes them that way? And in particular, and this is very very important in my opinion, are they to blame for how they are? Could they or should they be different. Why do they not change for the better and could anything make them or help the to change? If we cannot answer the question as to why people differ in their capacity to do good or listen to reason, how will we properly evaluate the human condition.

Like Einsteins incomprehensible insight into the nature of time and space, matter and energy, there is a very simple, in this case equation that throws light on the matter, of course in my opinion.

The answer, I believe is that the reason that people act as we speak about here is that their ignorance is a matter of life and death, that we are psychically dead and do not want to know it. And the reason we are dead is because, once long ago we were told a lie too difficult to live with, that we are worthless as human beings, each worse than everyone else. And the only way to know this is true is to feel it, in other world to relive one's psychic death all over again. Naturally, there are also a million ways those of us with some integrity left, who survive in denial with a breathing tube, find to avoid confrontation with those deeply repressed feelings. The thing that saves, I guess you could say, is that our deepest nature, not what we feel but our true potential, is to be gods, so to speak. We become instead professional egotists, but not knowing the substitute nature of that form of self delusion, we have to constantly be on guard to protect of substitute integrity. Willfully ignorant them might just as well be called willfully conceited.

Unfortunately, while that is easy to see in others, we don't see it in ourselves, generally speaking.

And because we had to become as we are to survive pain no child can consciously bear, no sin can be attributed beyond this original sin. We denied that God is within and all the rest follows out of that.
We agree about the ideas of good and evil. It is an absolute truth as I see it that both exist in all people and that there is choice in how you live your life which excludes any form of higher power existing outside this, very ordered even if we don't always see it that way, universe.

I think you are conflating the terms malevolent and willfully ignorant here, one is the case of knowledge and a choice to hurt others and the other is a case of lack of knowledge held on to through faith where evidence and observable reality does not matter since it is wilful and cannot be changed. I don't think you should conflate the two.

I'm not a philosopher, in fact I consider it a waste of time since any argument can be based on whatever you please and still count as evidence without having presented an iota of evidence but I'll try to answer anyway, bear with me, this is NOT my forte.

Our worth is self determined, our value is to those we help, to those we love and those that love us back. We will all be gone soon enough but if I helped people more than I hurt people I got my way in the end. My hatred for self is contained but present, I am very well aware of it. It's a big part of why I do what I do and try to be as selfless as I can while still fighting that ignorance which is extremely frustrating and will inevitably lead me to lash out, sometimes unnecessarily.

Molecular biologist heal thyself or something like that.

Be well.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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Michael, I have spent a lot of time reflecting on what makes people tick, particularly regarding what motivates them to behave as they do, and while I don't doubt it may sound conceited of me to say so, I am way past thinking in the terms you use. In the first place I have a very different , I would say, far more sophisticated sense of what evil really is than, as is what I see as the usual, that people have evil in them they act out. What I mean by this is that I think people assume evil to be real and a force in human nature or even a force that exists in the universe itself in the form of some corrupting malevolent being. Particularly that latter invention, the devil, etc., is a bunch of horse shit to me.

Similarly with willful ignorance. I don't have a problem with the words but I can't stop with that. I want to know why such willfulness exists. Just saying it is there is meaningless to me. So all of the attributes you may want to ascribe to it, while they may be perfectly accurate, only describe the symptoms and not the cause.

Why do people appear to be malevolent or willfully ignorant, Michael, what makes them that way? And in particular, and this is very very important in my opinion, are they to blame for how they are? Could they or should they be different. Why do they not change for the better and could anything make them or help the to change? If we cannot answer the question as to why people differ in their capacity to do good or listen to reason, how will we properly evaluate the human condition.

Like Einsteins incomprehensible insight into the nature of time and space, matter and energy, there is a very simple, in this case equation that throws light on the matter, of course in my opinion.

The answer, I believe is that the reason that people act as we speak about here is that their ignorance is a matter of life and death, that we are psychically dead and do not want to know it. And the reason we are dead is because, once long ago we were told a lie too difficult to live with, that we are worthless as human beings, each worse than everyone else. And the only way to know this is true is to feel it, in other world to relive one's psychic death all over again. Naturally, there are also a million ways those of us with some integrity left, who survive in denial with a breathing tube, find to avoid confrontation with those deeply repressed feelings. The thing that saves, I guess you could say, is that our deepest nature, not what we feel but our true potential, is to be gods, so to speak. We become instead professional egotists, but not knowing the substitute nature of that form of self delusion, we have to constantly be on guard to protect of substitute integrity. Willfully ignorant them might just as well be called willfully conceited.

Unfortunately, while that is easy to see in others, we don't see it in ourselves, generally speaking.

And because we had to become as we are to survive pain no child can consciously bear, no sin can be attributed beyond this original sin. We denied that God is within and all the rest follows out of that.
Does there have to be a deeper level to malevolence? What if it's as simple as someone believes there is no god and we get one life so we'd be fools not to fuck over everyone we can if it means anything positive for us? What if there is a god and he actually rewards selfish malevolence as "smart, intelligent behavior"? As unlikely as we may believe one or both of those scenarios are, we can't for sure rule them out and I'm sure at least some people subscribe to one or the other. It seems likely to me that lots of people subscribe to the first. Does such a belief system have to trace back to childhood or could it be as simple as brain chemistry?

All that said, I have trouble believing her statement is the result of anything other than pure, unadulterated stupidity.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,687
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126
Does there have to be a deeper level to malevolence? What if it's as simple as someone believes there is no god and we get one life so we'd be fools not to fuck over everyone we can if it means anything positive for us? What if there is a god and he actually rewards selfish malevolence as "smart, intelligent behavior"? As unlikely as we may believe one or both of those scenarios are, we can't for sure rule them out and I'm sure at least some people subscribe to one or the other. It seems likely to me that lots of people subscribe to the first. Does such a belief system have to trace back to childhood or could it be as simple as brain chemistry?

All that said, I have trouble believing her statement is the result of anything other than pure, unadulterated stupidity.
There is a Bedouin saying, there are two things in life, dates and experience. A Bedouin traveling to the city came upon something, perhaps Baklava and exclaimed, so this is experience. I distinctly remember, (though not the particulars), becoming aware at a different level, of what experience is, having always assumed before that that I already knew. I was listening in on the conversation of some people younger than I, I was possibly late teens or early 20s, and I suddenly realized they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. And I knew this as sure as the sun comes up because I had experience they did not.

You can talk till you are blue in the face that we have self hate deeply repressed within us, but if in a therapeutic process you actually relive something of it your whole understanding will change. And you will know too that anybody who has goon deeper than you and understood more as to the lies we were sold, you will also know they know more, or have unlearned, more than you.

Like the taste of wine, those who taste know.

If you can put a child down and make him hate himself, and if the pain of those feelings are too painful to consciously live with, and if we can repress memory and thus have feelings, bad feeligs about ourselves we are unconscious of and thus be unconsciously motivated not to get near anything that might awaken them, then we can go in two directions at least, one to try to recover and repair our self respect without becoming conscious it has been damaged, or go for bore getting even with the source of the insult. We can strive to go up or surrender to the darkness. Who does what and why, I do not know but I would say it might depend on the nature and malevolence of how and how badly we were put down as well as counteracting conditions in the environment like loving but ignorant parents, etc. Differences in brain chemistry could well be involved, but i think it is the put downs that get the ball rolling and I don't think are the main component. Just my opinion from the solid sense of the rest of it being true. I also think it could be set off at any time a person experiences something that triggers that self hate to the point where a person says fuck it, I will be what I feel. Without the right kind of real self love we are powder kegs.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
31,969
20,243
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There is a Bedouin saying, there are two things in life, dates and experience. A Bedouin traveling to the city came upon something, perhaps Baklava and exclaimed, so this is experience. I distinctly remember, (though not the particulars), becoming aware at a different level, of what experience is, having always assumed before that that I already knew. I was listening in on the conversation of some people younger than I, I was possibly late teens or early 20s, and I suddenly realized they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. And I knew this as sure as the sun comes up because I had experience they did not.

You can talk till you are blue in the face that we have self hate deeply repressed within us, but if in a therapeutic process you actually relive something of it your whole understanding will change. And you will know too that anybody who has goon deeper than you and understood more as to the lies we were sold, you will also know they know more, or have unlearned, more than you.

Like the taste of wine, those who taste know.

If you can put a child down and make him hate himself, and if the pain of those feelings are too painful to consciously live with, and if we can repress memory and thus have feelings, bad feeligs about ourselves we are unconscious of and thus be unconsciously motivated not to get near anything that might awaken them, then we can go in two directions at least, one to try to recover and repair our self respect without becoming conscious it has been damaged, or go for bore getting even with the source of the insult. We can strive to go up or surrender to the darkness. Who does what and why, I do not know but I would say it might depend on the nature and malevolence of how and how badly we were put down as well as counteracting conditions in the environment like loving but ignorant parents, etc. Differences in brain chemistry could well be involved, but i think it is the put downs that get the ball rolling and I don't think are the main component. Just my opinion from the solid sense of the rest of it being true. I also think it could be set off at any time a person experiences something that triggers that self hate to the point where a person says fuck it, I will be what I feel. Without the right kind of real self love we are powder kegs.
You know me well enough by now to know that I think what you describe above is the norm for most people. I just don't feel confident it's a factor for all people. I think it's highly likely that even if we could magically eliminate all psychological damage to children from external sources that some portion of humanity would still end up malevolent.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
68,687
4,602
126
You know me well enough by now to know that I think what you describe above is the norm for most people. I just don't feel confident it's a factor for all people. I think it's highly likely that even if we could magically eliminate all psychological damage to children from external sources that some portion of humanity would still end up malevolent.
You are probably right. I believe that children become violent because they see violence everywhere and have it done to them, but I forgot that the reason that the idea that infects us, the belief that evil is real is caused by our ability to use language which in turn gives rise to our ability to think abstractly. So as long as children are told they are worthless before they can stand against intimidation and realize that the ideas transmitted in word can be about things that have no existence the awareness that we and the universe are one and the same will be shattered by duality.

But then also it is because humanity is asleep in the world of duality that we infect our children with put downs.

In this regard I find the story of Hellenic Keller to be interesting. She would not have learned that she was a worthless child but also suffered the chaos of not having learned to think.
Anyway, I am just a dummy. I think I get why we sleep but I don’t know what it is to be fully awake or awake without falling asleep again. I have not seen all the lies I believe are false. If I miss the toilet I really get pissed.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
126
And this is your daily reminder Republicans are the party that routinely shoot down any sort of health care reform every time it comes up.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
126
Does there have to be a deeper level to malevolence? What if it's as simple as someone believes there is no god and we get one life so we'd be fools not to fuck over everyone we can if it means anything positive for us? What if there is a god and he actually rewards selfish malevolence as "smart, intelligent behavior"? As unlikely as we may believe one or both of those scenarios are, we can't for sure rule them out and I'm sure at least some people subscribe to one or the other. It seems likely to me that lots of people subscribe to the first. Does such a belief system have to trace back to childhood or could it be as simple as brain chemistry?

All that said, I have trouble believing her statement is the result of anything other than pure, unadulterated stupidity.
Stop calling them Stupid.
THEY ARENT FUCKING STUPID!

Republicans are brilliant. Like Adolph Hitler was brilliant. Or Hannibal Lecter.

Everything they do is geared towards getting reelected. And of course, members of congress get the very best socialized health care in America. In case anyone forgot that.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
6,291
1,232
126
Stop calling them Stupid.
THEY ARENT FUCKING STUPID!

Republicans are brilliant. Like Adolph Hitler was brilliant. Or Hannibal Lecter.

Everything they do is geared towards getting reelected. And of course, members of congress get the very best socialized health care in America. In case anyone forgot that.
Well the MTG and Gaetz are stupid. The brilliant and cunning are the McConnell and Cruz
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,806
6,089
136
Well the MTG and Gaetz are stupid. The brilliant and cunning are the McConnell and Cruz
That's the problem when intelligent-but-evil people prey on the gullible and stupid; do it for long enough and they get gullible, stupid people in office. Greene and Gaetz are very much the products of a Republican party that demonizes intelligence and believes truth is secondary to scoring political points.
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,399
496
126
Yes cancer has infested a large portion of the country. Most of the Republican Party has this affliction, which until now, I never knew was contagious. I'm certainly looking forward to the eradication of this cancer starting with the orange turd at the top.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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Do you think she knows Cancer isn't contagious?

---------
Marjorie Taylor Greene Blasts COVID Rules, Says 'Not a Single School Has Closed' Due to Cancer

In a message on Twitter, the Georgia Republican wrote that the U.S. has never "shut down" due to cancer-related deaths.


--------
Well, actually there is a disease that is sometimes a precursor for cancer. Of course, conservatives are fighting this prevention with every fiber of their being also. It called HPV and there's a vaccine for it that all adolescents should have.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
8,806
6,089
136
Only takes more than a year of spewing dangerous bullshit.

Fucking section 230 needs a massive overhaul.
If it's going to be overhauled, it needs a very careful one. Remember, Trump and Republicans were jonesing for Section 230 reform so they could force Facebook and Twitter to carry misinformation and hate speech. I wouldn't mind keeping Section 230 as-is if it meant preventing the GOP from enthusiastically violating free speech rights.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,685
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If it's going to be overhauled, it needs a very careful one. Remember, Trump and Republicans were jonesing for Section 230 reform so they could force Facebook and Twitter to carry misinformation and hate speech. I wouldn't mind keeping Section 230 as-is if it meant preventing the GOP from enthusiastically violating free speech rights.
Well we are fucked as a country if nothing is done to reign in the constant bullshit online.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
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Well we are fucked as a country if nothing is done to reign in the constant bullshit online.
All we need to do is start prosecuting politicians for deliberately spreading dangerous misinformation. And we know the GOP is scared of being prosecuted because for years they and their corporate sponsors have been whining about their right to spread lies, calling it Free Speech.
 

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