Yet Another Killer Cop Thread....Phoenix edition

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,650
26,748
136
Fuck you.

What the officer that shot did was completely unjustified. He should be sent to jail for murder on this. I already made a thread on this originally before it was locked since this one came first.

That aside, there are more than a few resident race baiters around here in that have claimed in previous threads that this kind of scenarios don't ever happen to white people. You are a piece of garbage here for even thinking I defend cops just for being cops. I defend lawful actions of whomever is being lawful. Your snide remarks show how much you hate white people and the law though.

As a white man I hate white people. Wtf are you on?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
So in short, you have provided no evidence that the majority (or even ANY) of deaths are due to illegal activity. Other than "death occurred therefore it must have been illegal activity" which is an absolutely fantastic jump to a conclusion.

Also you clearly did not read the link. I promise it's just a list, not a Ph.D thesis.

#8 - steel construction workers.
#7 - agricultural workers
#5 - refuse collectors
#4 - roofers

I said vast majority of PROBLEMS, not deaths, are from illegal activities in those professions. Of which deaths are a problem, but not the only problems with those jobs. Hence why I didn't say deaths or accidents. But go ahead and try to claim I said that. Logging and Fishing professions have lots more illegal activity then many other legal professions due to the nature of those jobs. There are certainly are other jobs out there with just as much illegal activity or more so. Again don't try to strawman what I said.

The reason I said problems, and not deaths, is because as far as I know the counts are counted based on legal or illegal activity for those professions. I can't find a data source specifically. However, if you don't think those doing things illegally are more reckless than those not being illegal I don't know what to tell you.

I also pointed out that comparison isn't apples to apples. Take roofers for example. ALL roofers go on a roof for their jobs at some point. Being on a roof is inherently dangerous. Not all cops go into potentially violent situations. Many cops sit at desks all day and the worst problems they face is a paper cut or a coffee burn. Lumping all cops a profession together and calculating the danger of all 678K cops in America compared to say all roofers is disingenuous at best. The danger of a front-line police officer in high violent crime areas of the country is magnitudes worse than an Andy Griffith in Mayberry sitting at a desk. Of which the later is far greater number than those in dangerous areas. Your point is a stupid statistic that doesn't mean anything when trying to compare the relative danger of cops to roofers. As a whole for each profession they aren't comparable.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
First of all, NOBODY here has EVER claimed unjustified shootings of white never happen, so more lies from you.

Your M.O is when there is an unjustified shooting of a black person you will bend over backwards to claim it was justified. You'll have to answer why you do this in almost every case. Just go back and look at your comments in the Ahmed Arbery case is a classic example.

IMO this cop will be arrested very soon meanwhile Breonna Taylor's killers are still on the loose.

I haven't bent over backwards at all. I've only defended the shootings of Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown once all the evidence was out there. I did say early on in the shooting of Jordan Davis by Michael Dunn with the early evidence it was self defense until evidence came out that he shot after the fleeing vehicle. I also said that currently the evidence for the Ahmed Arbery isn't enough, but what we do know publicly is problematic for the prosecution. I haven't in one way or another with Ahmed Arbery said it was a 100% justified shooting or not. We are still missing too much evidence and I have said as much. Unlike your race baiting ass, I don't jump to conclusion base on race. If the evidence in court shows the shooting was unjustified the McMichaels will end up in jail for it and good riddance. I have stated that emphatically several times. You are on the other hand wish to push out lies and call me the liar when you do. Shame on you.
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Crazy story. Shot a white guy guy in the back who was complying with instructions. Not sure how they wriggle out of this one. Also would be interested to see if the NRA jumps in this one when they have stayed out of all the other cars where people (mostly black people) have been shot at home exercising second amendment rights.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,264
3,840
136
God yes. I can't stand the idolatry of armed forces and police officers. They are jobs and they are voluntary.

And for all the dangers of policing, being a logger or fisherman is a far deadlier occupation in the US.

Kind of like a proctologist coming home and bitching about having to look at assholes all day.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
First of all, NOBODY here has EVER claimed unjustified shootings of white never happen, so more lies from you.

Maybe not literally, but very close to it, and I've seen statements where you imply no risk (e.g. Daniel Shaver didn't have to worry about orders but black people do?). I remember people here liked the house-on-fire analogy (the house of white people is not for this issue, while the house of black people is a raging inferno). A lot of people agree with Claira Janover’s analogy of stabbing to death vs. papercut. If that isn’t evidence of being dismissive, then I don’t know what is.

“Nice try but 1 case of a white person does not equate 50-100 cases of black people.

White people don't have to worry about being shot and killed just for exercising their constitutional rights to purchase and carry fire arms. You know that 2nd amendment thing people like you think is the most important thing.

White people don't have to worry about being shot by police just for following their orders.”



"The estimated number of killings of young black men means that roughly one in 1,000 black men face fatal police violence — a rate 2.5 times greater than that of white men. "

Lifetime risk is only 2.5x for black people, which doesn’t account for differences other than discrimination from cops i.e. the large violence gap & SES between black vs. white. If white people were more violent and poorer, they would have more interactions with police, too, resulting in more deaths. Again, that's separate from discrimination from cops themselves.

Many cops sit at desks all day and the worst problems they face is a paper cut or a coffee burn. Lumping all cops a profession together and calculating the danger of all 678K cops in America compared to say all roofers is disingenuous at best.

Of which the later is far greater number than those in dangerous areas. Your point is a stupid statistic that doesn't mean anything when trying to compare the relative danger of cops to roofers. As a whole for each profession they aren't comparable.

Half of cop deaths are traffic accidents, so that leaves about 10 per 100000 annually. A lot of private sector jobs that pay shit are already multiples of that. Even considering what you’ve said (and I have brought this up), it’s still not that dangerous insofar that a hypothetical free market would give the oodles of money for it, since plenty of people are open to still do it. And we all know that the danger difference does not get compensated even with the public sector. Some of the best paid cops have the least risk, while other cops least compensated have the worst elements of the job.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Pheonix has such badly trained cops that even 1st amendment auditors don`t go out on the streets alone! Why? Because the cops will say a photographer is creating a nuisance or acting disorderly...they skirt the constitution!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I said vast majority of PROBLEMS, not deaths, are from illegal activities in those professions. Of which deaths are a problem, but not the only problems with those jobs. Hence why I didn't say deaths or accidents. But go ahead and try to claim I said that. Logging and Fishing professions have lots more illegal activity then many other legal professions due to the nature of those jobs. There are certainly are other jobs out there with just as much illegal activity or more so. Again don't try to strawman what I said.

The reason I said problems, and not deaths, is because as far as I know the counts are counted based on legal or illegal activity for those professions. I can't find a data source specifically. However, if you don't think those doing things illegally are more reckless than those not being illegal I don't know what to tell you.

I also pointed out that comparison isn't apples to apples. Take roofers for example. ALL roofers go on a roof for their jobs at some point. Being on a roof is inherently dangerous. Not all cops go into potentially violent situations. Many cops sit at desks all day and the worst problems they face is a paper cut or a coffee burn. Lumping all cops a profession together and calculating the danger of all 678K cops in America compared to say all roofers is disingenuous at best. The danger of a front-line police officer in high violent crime areas of the country is magnitudes worse than an Andy Griffith in Mayberry sitting at a desk. Of which the later is far greater number than those in dangerous areas. Your point is a stupid statistic that doesn't mean anything when trying to compare the relative danger of cops to roofers. As a whole for each profession they aren't comparable.
Keep trying to justify police brutality and Police misconduct!
If there is one bad apple they all know about it and are complicit for looking the other way!
But aren`t you the one who applied that one bad apple to the protesters...claiming they all were looters?
You can`t have it both ways!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
First of all, NOBODY here has EVER claimed unjustified shootings of white never happen, so more lies from you.

Your M.O is when there is an unjustified shooting of a black person you will bend over backwards to claim it was justified. You'll have to answer why you do this in almost every case. Just go back and look at your comments in the Ahmed Arbery case is a classic example.

IMO this cop will be arrested very soon meanwhile Breonna Taylor's killers are still on the loose.
exactly!!!
As long a cops are allowed to make lethal "mistakes" as they call them, in the performance of their duties, things will never change!!
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
4JPoZ-5kPWdtbq0uW85o81G62FrqnBHQl_uhsCQTbKo.jpg


great read, why aren't police accountable at all
You know what is sad?? What is sad, is that all cops know the crooked ones....
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
I haven't bent over backwards at all. I've only defended the shootings of Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown once all the evidence was out there. I did say early on in the shooting of Jordan Davis by Michael Dunn with the early evidence it was self defense until evidence came out that he shot after the fleeing vehicle. I also said that currently the evidence for the Ahmed Arbery isn't enough, but what we do know publicly is problematic for the prosecution. I haven't in one way or another with Ahmed Arbery said it was a 100% justified shooting or not. We are still missing too much evidence and I have said as much. Unlike your race baiting ass, I don't jump to conclusion base on race. If the evidence in court shows the shooting was unjustified the McMichaels will end up in jail for it and good riddance. I have stated that emphatically several times. You are on the other hand wish to push out lies and call me the liar when you do. Shame on you.
You did LIE. Nobody, I repeat nobody here has EVER made the claim white people are never the victims of unjustified killings.
In the Arbery case you made an accusation he committed a crime when that was not true and no evidence to support it other then the word of those white truck drivers.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Maybe not literally, but very close to it, and I've seen statements where you imply no risk (e.g. Daniel Shaver didn't have to worry about orders but black people do?). I remember people here liked the house-on-fire analogy (the house of white people is not for this issue, while the house of black people is a raging inferno). A lot of people agree with Claira Janover’s analogy of stabbing to death vs. papercut. If that isn’t evidence of being dismissive, then I don’t know what is.

“Nice try but 1 case of a white person does not equate 50-100 cases of black people.

White people don't have to worry about being shot and killed just for exercising their constitutional rights to purchase and carry fire arms. You know that 2nd amendment thing people like you think is the most important thing.

White people don't have to worry about being shot by police just for following their orders.”



"The estimated number of killings of young black men means that roughly one in 1,000 black men face fatal police violence — a rate 2.5 times greater than that of white men. "

Lifetime risk is only 2.5x for black people, which doesn’t account for differences other than discrimination from cops i.e. the large violence gap & SES between black vs. white. If white people were more violent and poorer, they would have more interactions with police, too, resulting in more deaths. Again, that's separate from discrimination from cops themselves.



Half of cop deaths are traffic accidents, so that leaves about 10 per 100000 annually. A lot of private sector jobs that pay shit are already multiples of that. Even considering what you’ve said (and I have brought this up), it’s still not that dangerous insofar that a hypothetical free market would give the oodles of money for it, since plenty of people are open to still do it. And we all know that the danger difference does not get compensated even with the public sector. Some of the best paid cops have the least risk, while other cops least compensated have the worst elements of the job.

Oh he in the past for other threads has made similar statements of, "This doesn't happen to white people." He's a racist race baiter with those comments. He's even asked me before to show him examples of it happening to white people to which I've posted stories like this. Then he dismissed them saying it was a one off event despite what statistics shows. It's funny how anecdote is great when it suits his narrative, but is easily dismissed like the facts when it doesn't. The last time this happened was in that thread I called him Karen for when he was asking to report some people having a party at their house.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
You did LIE. Nobody, I repeat nobody here has EVER made the claim white people are never the victims of unjustified killings.
In the Arbery case you made an accusation he committed a crime when that was not true and no evidence to support it other then the word of those white truck drivers.

I did NOT lie, I said you make race baiter claims that bad stuff doesn't happen to white people like it does for black people in previous threads. I am not talking specific scenarios, but you race bait with that shit all the time.

As for Ahmed Arbery, HE DID COMMIT A CRIME. Trespass is a crime. He was told not to be there previously when he was caught before and ran. The fact you still don't understand that simple concept proves how much a race hustler you are. Are you sure your name isn't Al Sharpton?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Why do you hate people of color????
I did NOT lie, I said you make race baiter claims that bad stuff doesn't happen to white people like it does for black people in previous threads. I am not talking specific scenarios, but you race bait with that shit all the time.

As for Ahmed Arbery, HE DID COMMIT A CRIME. Trespass is a crime. He was told not to be there previously when he was caught before and ran. The fact you still don't understand that simple concept proves how much a race hustler you are. Are you sure your name isn't Al Sharpton?
You did lie!! Arbery did not trespass! We was never told not to be there! You are lying!
Nowhere in the Police report does it talk about him trespassing! Plus there were no signs posted saying no trespassing! It was a construction site!

https://www.redstate.com/jeffc/2020...-lies-surrounding-the-ahmaud-arbery-shooting/

Next, we have the theory that Arbery entered the construction site on multiple occasions. At first, it was established that the young man went into the site shortly before his confrontation with the McMichaels. But later, it was reported that footage showed him going into the property multiple times in October 2019. The anti-Arbery crowd was using this “fact” to support the theory that the young man was casing the house for a future burglary.

However, ABC News revealed that the man who was entering the construction site in October was not Arbery. According to their report, English informed law enforcement that an “unknown black male” kept trespassing on the site and was captured in the surveillance camera footage. However, the suspect was described as a “lighter skinned black male, slender build” who stood between “5-foot-10 and 6-foot and whose arms may have been covered in tattoos and has 3-inch to 4-inch “twists/dreads hairstyle.”

However, Arbery does not match this description. He was 6 feet tall with a dark complexion and a low-faded haircut. Even a cursory examination of the video shows that Arbery’s build is distinctly different from the man who entered the property in October. The victim’s mother affirms that it was Arbery who went into the site on Feb. 23, the day of the shooting, but stated that the person who did the same in October was not her son. Neither of the men in question stole anything from the site.

Finally, we have the citizen’s arrest issue. Many on the right have defended the McMichael’s decision to pursue Arbery after they saw him running by their house, claiming that they were exercising their right to citizen’s arrest.

Indeed, George Barnhill, the second district attorney to handle the case, wrote a memo in which he justified the two men’s actions by claiming that they were trying to make a citizen’s arrest on a “burglary suspect.” He was later compelled to recuse himself from the case after Arbery’s mother pointed out that his son worked in the same office as the elder McMichael, who was a retired police officer and investigator. It was clear that Barnhill had no intention of investigating or seeking an arrest of the two men.

But, Georgia law indicates that a citizen’s arrest can only be made under narrow circumstances. The law reads:

“A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”
At most, Arbery’s presence in the construction site constitutes trespassing, which is considered a misdemeanor, not a felony under Georgia law. Robert Patillo, a Georgia-based criminal law attorney, points out that the state’s statutes did not give the McMichaels the right to pursue Arbery. He also addresses another argument being made by those who wish to place blame on the young man.

The anti-Arbery crowd claims that Travis McMichael was justified in shooting the young man because he grabbed McMichael’s shotgun. They argue that Travis’ actions constituted self-defense even though the two men admitted that they were attempting to corner Arbery while carrying guns.

In the video, Patillo notes that, “You cannot create the situation and bring a gun into the situation and then claim self-defense when you have a posse of three people with you in pickup trucks to stop an individual.” According to the police report and the McMichaels’ statements, they clearly initiated the incident that led to Arbery’s death.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I haven't bent over backwards at all. I've only defended the shootings of Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown once all the evidence was out there. I did say early on in the shooting of Jordan Davis by Michael Dunn with the early evidence it was self defense until evidence came out that he shot after the fleeing vehicle. I also said that currently the evidence for the Ahmed Arbery isn't enough, but what we do know publicly is problematic for the prosecution. I haven't in one way or another with Ahmed Arbery said it was a 100% justified shooting or not. We are still missing too much evidence and I have said as much. Unlike your race baiting ass, I don't jump to conclusion base on race. If the evidence in court shows the shooting was unjustified the McMichaels will end up in jail for it and good riddance. I have stated that emphatically several times. You are on the other hand wish to push out lies and call me the liar when you do. Shame on you.
r Your take is totally wrong! Your KKK hood is showing....
However, ABC News revealed that the man who was entering the construction site in October was not Arbery. According to their report, English informed law enforcement that an “unknown black male” kept trespassing on the site and was captured in the surveillance camera footage. However, the suspect was described as a “lighter skinned black male, slender build” who stood between “5-foot-10 and 6-foot and whose arms may have been covered in tattoos and has 3-inch to 4-inch “twists/dreads hairstyle.”

However, Arbery does not match this description. He was 6 feet tall with a dark complexion and a low-faded haircut. Even a cursory examination of the video shows that Arbery’s build is distinctly different from the man who entered the property in October. The victim’s mother affirms that it was Arbery who went into the site on Feb. 23, the day of the shooting, but stated that the person who did the same in October was not her son. Neither of the men in question stole anything from the site.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,650
26,748
136
r Your take is totally wrong! Your KKK hood is showing....
However, ABC News revealed that the man who was entering the construction site in October was not Arbery. According to their report, English informed law enforcement that an “unknown black male” kept trespassing on the site and was captured in the surveillance camera footage. However, the suspect was described as a “lighter skinned black male, slender build” who stood between “5-foot-10 and 6-foot and whose arms may have been covered in tattoos and has 3-inch to 4-inch “twists/dreads hairstyle.”

However, Arbery does not match this description. He was 6 feet tall with a dark complexion and a low-faded haircut. Even a cursory examination of the video shows that Arbery’s build is distinctly different from the man who entered the property in October. The victim’s mother affirms that it was Arbery who went into the site on Feb. 23, the day of the shooting, but stated that the person who did the same in October was not her son. Neither of the men in question stole anything from the site.
Dude they all look alike. /s
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
3,130
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I did NOT lie, I said you make race baiter claims that bad stuff doesn't happen to white people like it does for black people in previous threads. I am not talking specific scenarios, but you race bait with that shit all the time.

As for Ahmed Arbery, HE DID COMMIT A CRIME. Trespass is a crime. He was told not to be there previously when he was caught before and ran. The fact you still don't understand that simple concept proves how much a race hustler you are. Are you sure your name isn't Al Sharpton?

you do realize that quite a few people had been caught on the same surveillance cameras also trespassing right? i don't recall any of them being POC and all of them are all still alive.

we have a policing problem and we have an institutional racism problem in the US. sometimes they occur simultaneously, sometimes they don't.

you come across as a racist on this forum quite frequently and a lot of posters have noted that repeatedly. only you can fix that, i suggest laying off the white oppression ALM BS.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
you do realize that quite a few people had been caught on the same surveillance cameras also trespassing right? i don't recall any of them being POC and all of them are all still alive.

we have a policing problem and we have an institutional racism problem in the US. sometimes they occur simultaneously, sometimes they don't.

you come across as a racist on this forum quite frequently and a lot of posters have noted that repeatedly. only you can fix that, i suggest laying off the white oppression ALM BS.

I don't care that others were on the camera. Those are irrelevant facts. The fact is that Ahmed was trespassing and committing a crime. Plain and simple. We'll find out the rest in court, but according to public statements by the defense, Ahmed had been approached before by the McMichaels and knew he wasn't suppose to be there. It wasn't just the McMichaels with that statement but Deigo as well.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I don't care that others were on the camera. Those are irrelevant facts. The fact is that Ahmed was trespassing and committing a crime. Plain and simple. We'll find out the rest in court, but according to public statements by the defense, Ahmed had been approached before by the McMichaels and knew he wasn't suppose to be there. It wasn't just the McMichaels with that statement but Deigo as well.
You do not know what you are talking about!
So let us be blunt you are probably a White Supremacist!
Arbery committed no crime! ArBery was never told to leave the property and there were no signs saying No Trespassing! What crime did ArBery commit that required his death?

The two men accused of fatally shotgunning unarmed jogger Ahmaud Arbery told police they believed he was a suspect in a recent string of break-ins — but no such crimes were reported to cops in the weeks leading up to the fatal shooting.


]
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
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I don't care that others were on the camera. Those are irrelevant facts. The fact is that Ahmed was trespassing and committing a crime. Plain and simple. We'll find out the rest in court, but according to public statements by the defense, Ahmed had been approached before by the McMichaels and knew he wasn't suppose to be there. It wasn't just the McMichaels with that statement but Deigo as well.

if your point is that looking around a construction site is illegal, then you have to recognize that many people, including families with children looked around that construction site and they are all alive. the simple fact is that Ahmaud is dead because he was murdered by racists.

hell, i was looking around a similar construction site earlier this year, if it's a crime, it's akin to speeding or jaywalking.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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if your point is that looking around a construction site is illegal, then you have to recognize that many people, including families with children looked around that construction site and they are all alive. the simple fact is that Ahmaud is dead because he was murdered by racists.

hell, i was looking around a similar construction site earlier this year, if it's a crime, it's akin to speeding or jaywalking.
oh but a racist would say looking around a construction site was a crime punishable by death, if you were a black man!!
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I don't care that others were on the camera. Those are irrelevant facts. The fact is that Ahmed was trespassing and committing a crime. Plain and simple. We'll find out the rest in court, but according to public statements by the defense, Ahmed had been approached before by the McMichaels and knew he wasn't suppose to be there. It wasn't just the McMichaels with that statement but Deigo as well.

Didn't the actual owner of the property end up saying that it was fine he was there? I can't remember, but even if he trespassed, which would probably require a warning or a sign, it would have been just a misdemeanor. That wouldn't give them the license to go after him like that. He would have had to stolen something for them to have something to latch to, but that appears to have not happened.

My speculation that Arbery got angry (supported more so by while being harassed, got hit by them aggressively maneuvering the trucks) when he was behind the truck may have been correct. Arbery had to have known why they were following from the descriptions I've read, and the fact that it lasted as long as it did indicated they weren't out to just kill him. Travis admitted when he was at the right side of the truck, he ordered Arbery to get on the ground while pointing the shotgun. I believe Arbery was angry and thought he could surprise Travis by turning at the other side of the truck with the small difference of distance between them (basically he would think Travis wouldn't realize this until very close proximity). Travis screwed up by not keep enough distance and making an ill-advised (and not legally defensible) order which turned into a shit outcome for everyone. He thought no one would be dumb enough to rush a guy with a shotgun, but someone angry with a path to surprise just might do it. Basically it seems like a case of two assholes colliding.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,695
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Didn't the actual owner of the property end up saying that it was fine he was there? I can't remember, but even if he trespassed, which would probably require a warning or a sign, it would have been just a misdemeanor. That wouldn't give them the license to go after him like that. He would have had to stolen something for them to have something to latch to, but that appears to have not happened.

My speculation that Arbery got angry (supported more so by while being harassed, got hit by them aggressively maneuvering the trucks) when he was behind the truck may have been correct. Arbery had to have known why they were following from the descriptions I've read, and the fact that it lasted as long as it did indicated they weren't out to just kill him. Travis admitted when he was at the right side of the truck, he ordered Arbery to get on the ground while pointing the shotgun. I believe Arbery was angry and thought he could surprise Travis by turning at the other side of the truck with the small difference of distance between them (basically he would think Travis wouldn't realize this until very close proximity). Travis screwed up by not keep enough distance and making an ill-advised (and not legally defensible) order which turned into a shit outcome for everyone. He thought no one would be dumb enough to rush a guy with a shotgun, but someone angry with a path to surprise just might do it. Basically it seems like a case of two assholes colliding.
One asshole: out for a jog.
One asshole: armed with a shotgun out to dominate.

Both Sides Do It!