Yet another bump in the road for USB 2.0

[NFS4]

Agere ditches USB 2.0, concentrates on Firewire

 

[Adul]

I say death to USB 2.0! Give me my firewire!

 

[bacillus]

oh dear, just as we are about to get competing technologies!

 

[nortexoid]

goodie.

 

[Snooper]

So it's now a good thing when competition dies off??? I don't know how well USB 2.0 will work, but I DO know that USB 1.0 (or whatever version it is at) beats the sh!t out of the other options my computer has for an interface. FireWire may be faster than USB 1.0 (and I don't remember were it sits relative to USB 2.0) and I am all for that. But I really do like the cost of USB 1 for hooking up game pads and scanners and printers and such.

Me? I want to see good, solid competition between USB and FireWire. May the BEST interface win. Of course, now I should define what I mean by "BEST", but I don't feel like it... To each his/her own.

 

[The Sauce]

What's the big deal? Some no-name, garage-based company stops supporting USB 2.0 and this is supposed to raise concern?

 

[SUOrangeman]

You can get a USB2+Firewire card for $100. Why fret?

However, it will be intersting to see which of these two start showing up as an option integrated on motherboards.

-SUO

 

[nortexoid]

it's a good thing if USB goes down so that more manufacturers bring out products sporting firewire interfaces instead of USB 2.0...cuz face it, USB 2.0 gets dominated by firewire.

 

[NFS4]

<< it's a good thing if USB goes down so that more manufacturers bring out products sporting firewire interfaces instead of USB 2.0...cuz face it, USB 2.0 gets dominated by firewire. >>


USB/USB 2.0 is perfect for printers, mice, gamepads, keyboards, PDA's, etc. Firewire for those devices is just plain stupid/overkill/overtly expensive.

USB does have it's place, and USB 2.0 just extends upon that. Firewire should be reserved for extremely demanding peripherals (digital cameras/video editing, external hard drives, etc.). Stuff you don't want your CPU frettin' over.

 

[Vincent]

<< What's the big deal? Some no-name, garage-based company stops supporting USB 2.0 and this is supposed to raise concern? >>



Agere used to be part of Lucent.

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< What's the big deal? Some no-name, garage-based company stops supporting USB 2.0 and this is supposed to raise concern? >>



Agere used to be part of Lucent. >>


LOL, some people just don't know when to keep their mouth shut Agere is a pretty big company that deals with optical networking technologies as well. I believe they also make chipsets for wireless 802.llb products. I'll ask my dad, he used to work for Lucent before he retired with them.

**EDIT** I just asked my dad about Agere and told him what the above-mentioned person said (I won't mention which word he used to describe his comment, but let's just say it wasn't pretty).

Anyway, Agere is not some garage-based company and they deal with all of the stuff Lucent is trying to get out of.

 

[nortexoid]

i don't see a problem w/ using firewire for mice, gamepads, etc....

overpriced? - i don't get what's overpriced about it - or overkill...

 

[oldfart]

Agere is the former Lucent Micro Electronics arm that is getting spun off. Yes, the Orinoco 802.11 wireless lan, modem chipset business and many other not so well known products go with the Agere spin off. The spin off is not complete. They are still (God help them) part of Lucent.

 

[NFS4]

<< i don't see a problem w/ using firewire for mice, gamepads, etc....

overpriced? - i don't get what's overpriced about it - or overkill... >>


Mice, keyboards, gamepads, printers, etc. are all low-speed devices that don't need 400mbps of bandwidth from Firewire. It's OVERKILL. And Firewire is for the most part more expensive than USB. It's like comparing SCSI to IDE.

 

[NFS4]

<< They are still (God help them) part of Lucent. >>


My dad got out good. He went from Western Electric to AT&amp;T to Lucent. 31 years total with the company before retiring. The man is getting a phat $$$$ from Lucent as apart of the retirement package AND he is working for the new company who Lucent outsourced it's work to at the SAME salary he was making at Lucent. Lucky dog!

 

[The Sauce]

<< **EDIT** I just asked my dad about Agere and told him what the above-mentioned person said (I won't mention which word he used to describe his comment, but let's just say it wasn't pretty). >>



Well you just tell your DAD that anyone named Snatchface MUST know what he is talking about, and that he must just be sadly mistaken

But seriously, with USB 2.0 controllers already available this is a very meager impediment to the standard. More likely what will happen is they will jump back on the bandwagon too late after it has caught on.

 

[randomlinh]

i'm w/ nfs here, they each have their own market. now, if firewire suddendly became the same price as usb, for all things concerned, i'd opt for firewire

 

[nortexoid]

i disagree that firewire is more expensive than USB...i've read somewhere where reference is made of per chip cost for firewire and USB and the claim that firewire is costlier is unwarranted.

also, there's no such thing as overkill when prices are the same...of course my mouse doesn't use the bandwidth afforded by firewire, it doesn't for USB either...does that mean USB is overkill and i should be using my serial connector again?...perhaps u suggest something even slower than serial for the mouse since it would suffice (and be cheaper)?

firewire would at least alleviate teh 10-15% cpu overhead that USB burdens my cpu with everytime i quickly move the mouse around...

 

[shathal]

USB 2 is quite nice for MOBO-makers, as it's a no brainer. It's just as expensive to put USB 2 on it as it is to put USB 1.1 (where we're currently) on the board. The sillicon costs as much.

Firewire is more expensive - also it's not compatible with USB 1.1 - I'm not really one for going out &amp; spending money AGAIN on a joystick &amp; so on, if its not broken ...

So - USB 2.0 is not all bad ...

 

[NFS4]

<< USB 2 is quite nice for MOBO-makers, as it's a no brainer. It's just as expensive to put USB 2 on it as it is to put USB 1.1 (where we're currently) on the board. The sillicon costs as much.

Firewire is more expensive - also it's not compatible with USB 1.1 - I'm not really one for going out &amp; spending money AGAIN on a joystick &amp; so on, if its not broken ...

So - USB 2.0 is not all bad ... >>


EXACTLY, USB 2.0 has price and backwards compatibility going for it. And motherboard manufacturers are NOT going to drop USB 1.1 for Firewire, that's for sure. USB 1.1 will be around for a LONG time.

 

[Zzzt]

Firewire is more expensive. That doesn't mean more expensive to make, just more expensive for us to buy. The firewire patent is owned by Apple, and Apple demands a hefty kickback every time a chip is sold. USB 2.0 is the product of many companies (Compaq, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Lucent Technologies, Microsoft, NEC Technologies, and Philips Electronics) getting together and setting a standard that is free to use.

Firewire is faster now, but when USB 2.0 gets here.... Well, when USB 2.0 gets here, IEEE1394b will be available at 800Mbs.

 

[thorin]

&quot;Mice, keyboards, gamepads, printers, etc. are all low-speed devices that don't need 400mbps of bandwidth from Firewire. It's OVERKILL. And Firewire is for the most part more expensive than USB. It's like comparing SCSI to IDE. &quot;

I agree that those devices don't need/require that much bandwidth however you also don't need those devices using up CPU cycles that you paid dearly for. If USB was implemented in hardware (ie: with it's own controller...like FireWire is) not just drivers (like WinModems) then more people would support it.

Also we should be asking ourselves why we would want to support 2 seperate standards; USB for low bandwidth devices, FireWire for high bandwidth devices. When FireWire can handle all the devices easily on it's own. (And not put any load on the CPU as mentioned above).

Lastly the more companies deicde to use FireWire (for whatever reason) the cheaper it will become (even with Apple's licensing fees).

Thorin

 

[NFS4]

<< I agree that those devices don't need/require that much bandwidth however you also don't need those devices using up CPU cycles that you paid dearly for. If USB was implemented in hardware (ie: with it's own controller...like FireWire is) not just drivers (like WinModems) then more people would support it. >>


When I'm playing games on my 933MHz Duron, I'm not worried about how many cycles my mouse or keyboard is taking up b/c it is a non-factor.


<< Also we should be asking ourselves why we would want to support 2 seperate standards; USB for low bandwidth devices, FireWire for high bandwidth devices. When FireWire can handle all the devices easily on it's own. (And not put any load on the CPU as mentioned above). >>


In that case, it's USB that has the upperhand, NOT Firewire. USB is already integrated into EVERY motherboard sold so USB 2.0 is a natural extension. Firewire is going to be the one that has to fight to get put to use. USB has it easy.

 

[thorin]

&quot;When I'm playing games on my 933MHz Duron, I'm not worried about how many cycles my mouse or keyboard is taking up b/c it is a non-factor. &quot;

I agree it's an exteremely small issue. But the main selling/buying point of a computer is it's speed. I highly doubt that anyone buys a 933 over a 900 just so they can waste some cycles on USB and WinModem crap. I suspect that when you (and most people) buy a system they want the best performance they can get out of it.

&quot;In that case, it's USB that has the upperhand, NOT Firewire. USB is already integrated into EVERY motherboard sold so USB 2.0 is a natural extension. Firewire is going to be the one that has to fight to get put to use. USB has it easy.&quot;

I agree that USB has the upperhand with regards to availability but it isn't capable of doing everything that FireWire is capable of. USB can't handle the higher bandwidth devices while firewire can handle the lower bandwidth ones.

Thorin

 

[NFS4]

<< I agree it's an exteremely small issue. But the main selling/buying point of a computer is it's speed. I highly doubt that anyone buys a 933 over a 900 just so they can waste some cycles on USB and WinModem crap. I suspect that when you (and most people) buy a system they want the best performance they can get out of it. >>


Do you really think that I am upset about losing 1 or 2 FPS b/c of my mouse? I'm not that darn picky and I don't even loose that much. Hell, I use a 56k Winmodem and it works damn well. My Duron can handle it as can just about any processor. And yes, I like to get good performance, but I'm not gonna whine over some petty stuff like a few FPS.

You buy a 1.8GHz Pentium 4 and you tell me that you can't spare .005% of 1.8GHz for a mouse, keyboard, printer, scanner, and gamepad? And wasting cycles doing what? Can you honestly tell me that you notice a difference if you're using a 56k winmodem to surf the web vs a hard modem?? Or even using a USB mouse or keyboard vs a PS/2 version??

I just think that people go overboard when they rag on USB and Winmodems. They are both damn good standards for what they do and don't impeed on everyday activities. Don't make me get Modus in here