yet another build thread

[m1ldslide1]

So this is for a friend of mine. He has a budget of around $750 max, but hopefully less. He's looking for a fast all-around computer, and wants to eventually put a mid-range GPU like an 8800GT 256 in, but for now will settle for affordable graphics for some light gaming. He has an xbox 360, and that'll hold him off getting a higher end gpu for a while. His old dell won't offer much besides peripherals and an optical drive, and he already has a monitor. I'm building this rig for him, and I'm definitely looking to OC.

Cliffs:
budget: 750, preferably less
existing parts: optical, monitor
purpose: fast all around, GPU comes later
OC: yes


Here's what I have:

CPU
C2D 4500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115031
$125
--or--
e2180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052
$88

I'm looking to OC to 3.0ghz on either one I choose, and after market cooling is a possibility. I've seen some folks saying that stock HSF will get you to 3ghz on both of these chips, and at reasonable temps. I'm also concerned about the difference in cache. Should I wait until the 20th when the penryns come out?


memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231121
1x2GB g.skill ddr2 800
$50
One 2gig stick for now, one to be purchased at a later date. Will this OC well enough for me to get to 3.0ghz?

motherboard
MSI P35 Neo2-FR LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130098
$100 - after rebate
I read the anandtech review of this board and it sounds like it could be a winner.

PSU
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS ATX12V / EPS12V 600W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817341010
$82 - after rebate

hard drive
segate 320gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822148140
$85

vista 64 home premium
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832116204
$112

case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811119129
cooler master mystique
$25 - after rebate

video card
8600gt
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150258
$100

grand total:
$642 with e2180

$679 with 4500

Either one leaves some room for an HSF, extra 2GB memory, or necessary upgrades in any area. But off the top of my head I think this would be a really solid build.
Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[MegaVovaN]

Hold on till Jan 20, E8xxx series CPUs coming out, that may shift prices of lower CPUs down.
Out of these chips get 4500, extra cache for the win. Stock cooler IS good.

$50 for 2gb stick of RAM is expensive...
Get this instead:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T8UB2GC5
$34.51+ship for 2gb stick. Just buy 2 of these and you're set. Dual channel is good!
I got that supertalent stuff (2 sticks) with E6750 and OCed from 2.66 to 3.2 ghz (just upped FSB to 400 from 333) - stock cooling.

Alternative (cheaper) for mobo = Abit IP35-E. Again that's what I use. There is also Gigabyte board in ~$100 range (no rebate) GA-P35-DS3L
Overkill on PSU, you can get 450 watt "Corsair VX450" model for like $60-65. I have it and it's quiet.

For case consider Coolermaster Elite 330
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811119115

I got it for $20 AR from Fry's awhile ago...inexpensive, good case - no cheap flash. Try to find it cheaper than newegg's current price (35+ship)

8600gt....eh. It's not a bad card on it's own, but it is way way slower than 8800GT. There is an inappropriately large bridge in performance between 8600GT and 8800GT. Almost like bang for buck at 8800GT is low. Go for 8800GT or ATI 3850/3870.

With savings I mentioned and your headroom you just might be able to buy it. 8800GT should be $250 or less, everything else is mad overpay.

edit: cheaper version of same mobo?
http://www.clubit.com/product_...4032&CMP=EMC-Mix011008
MSI P35 Neo Combo-F LGA775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard Retail
84.50+3.75 ship
no rebates


also shop around and buy from different web sites - buying everything on newegg is not the best deal, even with combined shipping.
I bought 5 parts for my upgrade from 3 sites:
Newegg: cpu/mobo
ZipZoomFly: Video card and PSU (both were on sale)
eWIz: supertalent RAM


and don't get carried away with rebates. You may never get them. On my $693 upgrade I had only $10 tied in rbeates (PSU rebate)

 

[Doclife]

I would replace the following items from your list:

PSU: Antec earthwatts EA430 ATX12V v2.0 430W Power Supply $30 (after $30 rebate)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371006


My system is running on a 430W Seasonic PSU and have no problems with the 8800GT 512MB superclocked 650Mhz (Gigabyte DS3R mobo, E4500 stock cooler, 4GB memory (1GB x 4), 250GB HD, CD/DVD burner, Floppy). 430W from a quality PSU is plenty of power to run any single video card. Antec rebate is good. I always receive my rebate from Antec.


MEMORY: HP - Memory - 1 GB - DIMM 240-pin - DDR II - 667 MHz / PC2-5300 $7.50 (after $20 rebate, Free shipping)

http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP/PX976AT/L49299

The C2D Intel CPU is designed to run with dual channel memory. If you have only 1 stick, it will slow down the system considerably or may not even work. Get 4GB memory now while they are cheap or pay a lot more later when you want to upgrade. The HP rebate is good for up to 5 sticks. Thus, if you buy 4 sticks, your cost will be $30 after $80 rebate ($20 x 4). I bought 4 sticks and got my rebate within 3 weeks.

VIDEO CARD: HIS Hightech H385F256NP Radeon HD 3850 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 $160 (after $10 rebate)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814161211

No point of spending $100 on the 8600GT when for $60 more you can get a video card that's much much faster. The HD 3850 is only slightly slower (may be ~10%) than the 8800GT 256MB. Read the comparison of the HD3850 and 8800GT 256MB here

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175&p=6

CPU COOLER: None. If your goal is to OC to 3Ghz, then the stock cooler is more than adequate. Mine is running at 3GHz using stock cooler for the past 5 months without any problems.

SOUND CARD: None, on board audio of current Intel based motherboard are superb. Give it a try with a good pair of speakers for yourself.


Total with E2180 CPU : $630


With this setup, your friend can enjoy the game he likes NOW, without breaking his bank.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: Doclife
With this setup, your friend can enjoy the game he likes NOW, without breaking his bank.

Indeed, if he's just using a 17" TFT (assuming 1280*1024) then that's enough to run Crysis on mid settings and UT3 on high! The 8800GT and its fellow "mid-range" cards are well equipped to run most games quite acceptably on a medium resolution.

Remember when 1280*1024 was a high resolution?

 

[MarcVenice]

Will ddr 2 667mhz do the trick for his oc-ing needs ? We know this is budget, but it really sucks to have to replace components later down the road, like the 8600gt. So you MUST forget about the 8600gt to start with. Some people did good on suggesting a different case or PSU, the Antec Earthwatts 430w is good, especially for 30$, remember though, you might have to wait 2 months for the rebates to come in. Corsair 450vx is also a cheap option, without rebates. This is a really good case as well, for little money: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...811119137&Tpk=cm%2b690 Check the cases and cooling forum if you want to know more about this case.

I would REALLY get a 512mb card btw. I'm pretty darn sure the budget can fit in a HD3870 512mb, or a HD3850 512mb. When he upgrades his monitor, his card will almost instantly become the suck, because of the low amount of vram. I know, coz I'm allready feeling the pain with my 8800gts 320mb. Shop around, look for hot deals, and 750$ will buy him an INSTANT good gaming rig, not a rig with a crappy videocard. Just for fun btw, you could look into getting this PSU: http://www.pcclub.com/product_...ls.cfm?itemno=A6296671 it's $50 AR, and will last him through several upgrades, for at least 5 years.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Will ddr 2 667mhz do the trick for his oc-ing needs ?

It should, just about. If he's using a processor with an '800MHz' FSB like the E4500, then he needs DDR2 that'll run at '400MHz' to match it, which means the 667 will be good for him up until he ups the FSB speed to 333. Unnecessarily complicated but basically it's good for a medium overclock.

Originally posted by: Doclife
The C2D Intel CPU is designed to run with dual channel memory. If you have only 1 stick, it will slow down the system considerably or may not even work.

Hold on now, this is a bit of a stretch. Not running in dual-channel will have a small impact on performance but won't "slow down the system considerably" or stop it working. The latest chipsets (from the 965 I believe) will even be flexible enough to run in what amounts to "one and a half channel" rate if you've got three sticks of RAM in. There's no need to worry about matching and pairing RAM, not since the good old Athlon days.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Hold on now, this is a bit of a stretch. Not running in dual-channel will have a small impact on performance but won't "slow down the system considerably" or stop it working. The latest chipsets (from the 965 I believe) will even be flexible enough to run in what amounts to "one and a half channel" rate if you've got three sticks of RAM in. There's no need to worry about matching and pairing RAM, not since the good old Athlon days.

Thanks for clarifying, that sounded wrong to me when I read it.

If he just wants to get to 3GHz, DDR2-667 is fine. He could get the E4500 to 2.93 GHz on DDR2-533.

I agree about the PSU, no need for 600W, especially when you're on a budget.

One thing I would disagree about is a price drop on existing CPUs with the Wolfdale release. There isn't going to be a low-end 45nm chip that fits in the niche of the E4xxx series for a while, and I don't see the prices on those chips dropping very heavily. There might be a price drop on the E6xxx series, but it wouldn't be earth-shattering I wouldn't think. Intel didn't drop prices on the E6x00 series when it released the E6x50 series, because it didn't want to do anything to cut into the sales of its new chips. I could see them following the same logic here.

 

[Doclife]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Will ddr 2 667mhz do the trick for his oc-ing needs ?

It should, just about. If he's using a processor with an '800MHz' FSB like the E4500, then he needs DDR2 that'll run at '400MHz' to match it, which means the 667 will be good for him up until he ups the FSB speed to 333. Unnecessarily complicated but basically it's good for a medium overclock.

Originally posted by: Doclife
The C2D Intel CPU is designed to run with dual channel memory. If you have only 1 stick, it will slow down the system considerably or may not even work.

Hold on now, this is a bit of a stretch. Not running in dual-channel will have a small impact on performance but won't "slow down the system considerably" or stop it working. The latest chipsets (from the 965 I believe) will even be flexible enough to run in what amounts to "one and a half channel" rate if you've got three sticks of RAM in. There's no need to worry about matching and pairing RAM, not since the good old Athlon days.

Thanks Roguestar for clarifying the dual channel. I've been using AMD since the K6 days and just recently jumbed on the Intel bandwagon.

If the OP goal is to OC to 3Ghz, then DDR2 667MHZ is more than enough for E2180 (x10 multiplier). The HP 1GB 667MHz RAM stick is quite good, I was able to OC it to 720Mhz.

If the OP is willing to spend up to his budget limits ($750), then he would have more than enough to buy the 8800GT 512MB video card ($217 + $14 shipping, after $20 rebate)

http://www.ncixus.com/products...X/Galaxy%20Technology/


Grand total with E2180 and 8800GT 512MB : $704

 

[Roguestar]

Yeah, it's quite a change now, my processor before this was an A64 and it'd cry and throw a fit if you didn't cherry-pick memory for it. It's quite a welcome change to not have to worry so much about it, actually .

I'm surprised that memory has OCing headroom on it at all, for that price. If only we got those kind of offers over here I'd be happier!

I agree with upping the card to a 512MB version, as if he's using anything more than 1280*1024 he'll start to need much bigger chunks of VRAM for the frame buffer. :thumbsup:

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Roguestar
Yeah, it's quite a change now, my processor before this was an A64 and it'd cry and throw a fit if you didn't cherry-pick memory for it. It's quite a welcome change to not have to worry so much about it, actually .

I'm surprised that memory has OCing headroom on it at all, for that price. If only we got those kind of offers over here I'd be happier!

I agree with upping the card to a 512MB version, as if he's using anything more than 1280*1024 he'll start to need much bigger chunks of VRAM for the frame buffer. :thumbsup:

It's not so much that the memory has OCing headroom on it, it's just that to run a stock E4500 or E2180 at 1:1, you only need DDR2-400. Not only are you not overclocking, you're underclocking DDR2-667.

I could run my E4500 at 2.93GHz with DDR2-533.

 

[Roguestar]

^ I mean it in reference to:

Originally posted by: Doclife
The HP 1GB 667MHz RAM stick is quite good, I was able to OC it to 720Mhz.

 

[m1ldslide1]

OK, that's some awesome input from everybody. Here is the revised build:

CPU
C2D 4500 (potentially wait for penryn)
$125

memory
super-talent 1x2GB (other stick probably to be purchased later)
$35

motherboard
Abit IP35-E
$90

PSU
Corsair 450VX
$58 on ClubIT
--- Are y'all sure that this will be enough for a 3850/8800GT + the potential for an OC'd quad-core in the future? I want this PSU to last for a few years. And as for the earthwatts that Doclife has suggested, again, is 430W going to be enough? I have one of those earthwatts in another computer, and I like it, but I wouldn't go sticking an OC'd quad-core C2D + 8800GT in it necessarily.

vista 64
$112

seagate HDD
$85

case (coolermaster of some sort - up to buyer)
$35

Grand total before GPU:
$540

I'm leaning towards the HIS 3850 @ 256, given that I believe he's doing 1280x1024 or less and probably won't buy a monitor for a while. Once he does there's no way it'll be more than 1680x1050.
$160

Grand total with 3850:
$700

Thanks very much for the input!!

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
PSU
Corsair 450VX
$58 on ClubIT
--- Are y'all sure that this will be enough for a 3850/8800GT + the potential for an OC'd quad-core in the future? I want this PSU to last for a few years. And as for the earthwatts that Doclife has suggested, again, is 430W going to be enough? I have one of those earthwatts in another computer, and I like it, but I wouldn't go sticking an OC'd quad-core C2D + 8800GT in it necessarily.

check this link - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=11 in regards to power

the new cpus and gpus are finally moving towards more efficient designs, so 430W will be fine

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
PSU
Corsair 450VX
$58 on ClubIT
--- Are y'all sure that this will be enough for a 3850/8800GT + the potential for an OC'd quad-core in the future? I want this PSU to last for a few years. And as for the earthwatts that Doclife has suggested, again, is 430W going to be enough? I have one of those earthwatts in another computer, and I like it, but I wouldn't go sticking an OC'd quad-core C2D + 8800GT in it necessarily.

check this link - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=11 in regards to power

the new cpus and gpus are finally moving towards more efficient designs, so 430W will be fine

That's a good link - thank you bob. The earthwatts is sounding better all the time..

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
PSU
Corsair 450VX
$58 on ClubIT
--- Are y'all sure that this will be enough for a 3850/8800GT + the potential for an OC'd quad-core in the future? I want this PSU to last for a few years. And as for the earthwatts that Doclife has suggested, again, is 430W going to be enough? I have one of those earthwatts in another computer, and I like it, but I wouldn't go sticking an OC'd quad-core C2D + 8800GT in it necessarily.

check this link - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=11 in regards to power

the new cpus and gpus are finally moving towards more efficient designs, so 430W will be fine

That's a good link - thank you bob. The earthwatts is sounding better all the time..

plus they seem to always be having a rebate somewhere

 

[MarcVenice]

Please, for the love of god, spend 10-20$ extra to get a 512mb version of the HD3850 or HD3870. Even if he plays at lower resolutions, newer games are also becoming more demanding when it comes to VRAM. You are REALLY crippling the whole build by not spending those extra 10-20$ for more vram and you or he/she will regret it later down the road.

 

[MegaVovaN]

450 is absolutely enough.
I'm running e6750 OCed from 2.66 to 3.2 with 8800GT, DVD drive, 3 fans and 2 HDDs and probably use ~200 watts

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Please, for the love of god, spend 10-20$ extra to get a 512mb version of the HD3850 or HD3870. Even if he plays at lower resolutions, newer games are also becoming more demanding when it comes to VRAM. You are REALLY crippling the whole build by not spending those extra 10-20$ for more vram and you or he/she will regret it later down the road.

word

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Please, for the love of god, spend 10-20$ extra to get a 512mb version of the HD3850 or HD3870. Even if he plays at lower resolutions, newer games are also becoming more demanding when it comes to VRAM. You are REALLY crippling the whole build by not spending those extra 10-20$ for more vram and you or he/she will regret it later down the road.

Link?

 

[Doclife]

DIAMOND Viper 3850PE3512O Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 $190

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814103051

 

[m1ldslide1]

To clarify, by 'link' I meant can somebody supply a link where 256 vs. 512 is benched on some games, proving that there is $30 worth of noticeable difference in the two cards?

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Roguestar
^ I mean it in reference to:

Originally posted by: Doclife
The HP 1GB 667MHz RAM stick is quite good, I was able to OC it to 720Mhz.

Gotcha, I missed that.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
To clarify, by 'link' I meant can somebody supply a link where 256 vs. 512 is benched on some games, proving that there is $30 worth of noticeable difference in the two cards?

Bench addressing exact same question:

http://www.iax-tech.com/video/3850/01.htm

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
To clarify, by 'link' I meant can somebody supply a link where 256 vs. 512 is benched on some games, proving that there is $30 worth of noticeable difference in the two cards?

Bench addressing exact same question:

http://www.iax-tech.com/video/3850/01.htm

I've been through most of this article now, and it appears that it's contrasting the 3850 and 3870, not the 3850 256 vs. 3850 512.

 

[MarcVenice]

Taken directly from an anandtech article: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175&p=5

"What we have here is an 8800 Ultra that's $50 more for not much more gain, and a 256MB 8800 GT that's at least $70 cheaper for a lot less performance. If you plan on keeping this card for any length of time, it looks like 512MB is the way to go. Frame buffer demands of modern games are only going to increase, and it looks like what we're seeing here today is an indication that the transition to 512MB as a minimum for high end gaming performance is officially underway. The 768MB memory sizes of the 8800 GTX are still not totally required, but 512MB looks like the sweet spot."

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Taken directly from an anandtech article: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175&p=5

"What we have here is an 8800 Ultra that's $50 more for not much more gain, and a 256MB 8800 GT that's at least $70 cheaper for a lot less performance. If you plan on keeping this card for any length of time, it looks like 512MB is the way to go. Frame buffer demands of modern games are only going to increase, and it looks like what we're seeing here today is an indication that the transition to 512MB as a minimum for high end gaming performance is officially underway. The 768MB memory sizes of the 8800 GTX are still not totally required, but 512MB looks like the sweet spot."

Well thanks Marc- I'll have to leave it up to the buyer and his budget. But that makes sense.