Yes, I agree.

[Gaard]

Oregon Vets Protest Assistant District Attorney's Statement in Ad That Kerry Lies About Record

PORTLAND, Ore. Aug. 24, 2004 ? Several Vietnam veterans are calling for an assistant district attorney to resign after questions were raised about his statement in a recent ad criticizing Democrat John Kerry's military service.

Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In the spot, French says: "I served with John Kerry. ... He is lying about his record."

A group of Vietnam veterans who protested outside the county courthouse Monday said French implied he had firsthand knowledge of Kerry's war actions when in fact he had heard about what Kerry did from friends.

In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monday.


BTW, doesn't this make that guy a liar?

 

[DealMonkey]

District Attorney John Foote released a statement Monday chiding French for bringing unwanted publicity to the suburban county's office, but stood by his employee.

"I do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor," Foote wrote. "However, all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express their opinions on their own time."

Oh man, you just know that if French was in an anti-Bush MoveOn.org ad, his ass would be SO fired.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Oregon Vets Protest Assistant District Attorney's Statement in Ad That Kerry Lies About Record

PORTLAND, Ore. Aug. 24, 2004 ? Several Vietnam veterans are calling for an assistant district attorney to resign after questions were raised about his statement in a recent ad criticizing Democrat John Kerry's military service.

Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In the spot, French says: "I served with John Kerry. ... He is lying about his record."

A group of Vietnam veterans who protested outside the county courthouse Monday said French implied he had firsthand knowledge of Kerry's war actions when in fact he had heard about what Kerry did from friends.

In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monday.


BTW, doesn't this make that guy a liar?

Already brought up in:

This thread

Yes, but probably not in a legally definable way.


Has it occured to you that you are contributing to the narrowing of this election down to two issues?

[*] Kerry lied

[*] Bush lied


hmmmm, the Irony , that...

 

[Gaard]

Where's the irony?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Where's the irony?

:thumbsup:

 

[heartsurgeon]

BTW, doesn't this make that guy a liar?

Your assuming what is said is false....

District Attorney John Foote released a statement Monday chiding French for bringing unwanted publicity to the suburban county's office, but stood by his employee.

"I do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor," Foote wrote. "However, all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express their opinions on their own time

As for his not being an eyewitness, he never claimed he was an eyewitness...his affidavit included the following:

Before recording the ad, French signed an affidavit that said: "I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge and belief."

Move along....nothing to see here.

 

[Gaard]

see where it says 'personal knowledge'?

now combine that with this..."In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monda."

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Gaard
see where it says 'personal knowledge'?

now combine that with this..."In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monda."

Ah yes, the ever changing definition of a "lie". Now a lie is simply any description of an event by someone who did not actually witness the event first hand, regardless of the accuracy of the description. Thanks for clearing that up Gaard. Of course, the actual word that you should be using is "hearsay", not "lie". Of course these ads are not court proceedings, therefore claiming "hearsay" is also meaningless.

I supply the straws, you keep grasping. LOL fellas, good show.

 

[Gaard]

Actually, you're right. He didn't lie, he was just a victim of bad intel. (Neo - "Whoa")

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Gaard
see where it says 'personal knowledge'?

now combine that with this..."In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monda."

Ah yes, the ever changing definition of a "lie". Now a lie is simply any description of an event by someone who did not actually witness the event first hand, regardless of the accuracy of the description. Thanks for clearing that up Gaard. Of course, the actual word that you should be using is "hearsay", not "lie". Of course these ads are not court proceedings, therefore claiming "hearsay" is also meaningless.

I supply the straws, you keep grasping. LOL fellas, good show.

Wow, you're full of nuance today. Claiming you have personal knowledge of an incident when in reality you have hearsay is most certainly a lie. Here's a definition of hearsay:

Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

But please continue as your "argument" is quite amusing.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Gaard
see where it says 'personal knowledge'?

now combine that with this..."In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monda."

Ah yes, the ever changing definition of a "lie". Now a lie is simply any description of an event by someone who did not actually witness the event first hand, regardless of the accuracy of the description. Thanks for clearing that up Gaard. Of course, the actual word that you should be using is "hearsay", not "lie". Of course these ads are not court proceedings, therefore claiming "hearsay" is also meaningless.

I supply the straws, you keep grasping. LOL fellas, good show.

Wow, you're full of nuance today. Claiming you have personal knowledge of an incident when in reality you have hearsay is most certainly a lie. Here's a definition of hearsay:

Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

But please continue as your "argument" is quite amusing.

Could you please quote me the passage in the ad where Mr. French stated he had firsthand knowledge of the events?

Oh yes, this argument is most amusing. Anything someone learns, no matter how that information was obtained is personal knowledge. Are you now trying to state that if my wife tells me she bought something at the store that I do not have any knowledge or a personal belief that purchase took place?

[edit, mistook the context of the defintion, now understood that we are referring to a legal definition]

 

[DealMonkey]

Well, if you read Heartsurgeon's post above, you would know that French signed an AFFIDAVIT, which in part reads:

Before recording the ad, French signed an affidavit that said: "I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge and belief."

I rest my case your honor, no further questions.

 

[Corn]

OK, I see where my interpretation of Mr. French's testimony may be read differently than yours', Gaard and DM. I am operating under the assumption that Mr. French did not claim in the ad that he personally witnessed the events of which he opines the validity of Mr Kerry's "record". Please correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption by providing any text that I may be unaware of that relates to any specific event about which he claims to have personally witnessed.

I believe this to be deliberately vague.

Mr. French freely admits this information was gleaned from the testimony of others, and hence while he has no personal knowledge of the actual events of Mr. Kerry's "record" (lo and behold, he doesn't relate any specific event in the ad, do he?), he has personal knowledge of the testimony of others who claimed to have witnessed varios events in Mr. Kerry's "record".

Its week, but Mr. French covers his ass with the "and belief" bit as well. What do you expect? Its a political attack ad. They are selling a point of view and playing it off as a fact. It sucks, but I don't see direct falsehoods.

 

[DealMonkey]

I don't know Corn, French signed an affidavit that swore he had personal knowledge not hearsay, personal knowledge. Big difference in my book.

Here's the sworn affidavit of Alfred J. French III, signed July 21, 2004:

"My name is Alfred J. French III. I am over the age of 21 years, and I am fully competent and able to make this affidavit. I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge or belief.

"I served in Coastal Division 11 with John Kerry during his brief stay in Vietnam. My picture may be found (against my wishes) on John F. Kerry's ("Kerry") website, www.johnkerry.com, under his Lifetime commercial, where John Kerry includes my picture along with 18 other Patrol Craft Fast ("PCF") (also known as Swift boats) commanders in An Thoi along with him during his service there. I am a retired Captain in the United States Navy Reserve and was an Ensign when serving with Kerry.

"Kerry has wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam. By way of example, on two occasions Kerry obtain Purple Hearts under false pretenses from negligently self-inflicted grenade wounds in the absence of hostile fire. His first Purple Heart is the subject of widespread coverage. Thus, for example, his third Purple Heart of March 13, 1969 is attributed in his report of that day to a "hip wound" from an enemy mine while he himself admits on page 313 of Tour of Duty (by Douglas Brinkley; New York: Harper Collins, 2004) that he was wounded supposedly by a grenade placed in a rice bin by friendly troops. Kerry's commercials, for example, portraying him as a soldier with bandolier going through the jungle totally mischaracterizes his actual role in Vietnam.

"Most important to me, Kerry has lied about our record in Vietnam, claiming on a 1971 Meet The Press show that our unit was engaged in "atrocities." This is not true. On the Dick Cavett Show on 1971 (cf. Kranish at 92), he claimed that crews at An Thoi were involved in a mutiny. This was likewise a lie. There are many other lies that Kerry has told about his record and our mutual record in Vietnam.

"Further affiant saith not.

"Alfred J. French III"

Certainly reads like a personal account of someone who was there. Only he wasn't, rather he's relying on hearsay with NO personal knowledge. If he wasn't the one personally observing Kerry's actions from which he received various medals, where are the people who DID? Why aren't we hearing from them? WHO are they exactly.