Yerba Mate

[Entity]

Anybody tried this stuff? I've switched from coffee to it for a week+ now; it works about the same, but it's a smoother buzz (no post-8 cups jitters). Good things: it's non-habituating (its xanthine is mateine, apparently; not caffeine), still wakes you up (researchers are unsure of whether this is because of mateine or its nutritional value), and tastes good (IMHO).

Anyone else tried this as a sub for caffeine/coffee?

Rob

PS - Oh yeah, and it's cheap. A $6 bag lasts me about a month+; I used to go through coffee at around $20/mo, minimum.

 

[Stallion]

I haven't. Can you get it at any Grocery store?

 

[Entity]

No, unfortunately. You can find it at co-ops, probably could find it at Fred Meyer (which is a west-coast thang, I think), or other health-foods type stores. It's being marketed as 'the healthful alternative to coffee,' but I actually like the buzz from it better. Like I said, smoother. If you can find it, give it a try. It's like tea but much better.

I drink it straight, but if you don't like the taste, try it with milk, honey, and cinnamon. That's how I make it for my g/f.

Rob

 

[Stallion]

well since it looks like we both live in the Seattle area I'm sure I could find it somewhere around here. The wife likes these Herbal teas so she might like to try it as well and by the time work is over I usually have a big gut ache from all the coffee I drink.

 

[cxim]

There are no free rides. You have switched to a different group of stimulants. Theophylline is used medically & can have significant side effects. If you are drinking large amounts, you could develop toxic problems.

Why don't you read about theophylline. ##edit## it is usually used to treat asthma ##edit##

>> Xanthine, theophylline and theobromine are three strongly related alkaloids found in Yerba Mat&eacute; and are the most interesting compounds from a therapeutic standpoint. <<

>> Theophylline toxicity appears to occur at lower serum concentrations after chronic
overmedication than after acute overdose.[126] [127] In addition, acute overdose
patients are more likely to exhibit hypotension, hypokalemia, and/or metabolic
acidosis than are patients receiving chronic overmedication.[126] Patients suffering
chronic overmedication can develop seizures and serious arrhythmias with serum
concentrations of 28?70 µg/ml.[126] Cardiac arrhythmias include atrial fibrillation
or atrial flutter, multifocal atrial tachycardia, sinus tachycardia, supraventricular
tachycardia (SVT), premature ventricular contractions (PVCs), and other
ventricular arrhythmias with hemodynamic instability. <<

 

[dude]

damn cxim!

That sounds like good sh!t... I gotta get me some. Cheaper than crack...

 

[Entity]

cxim,

It wasn't a matter of a free ride, but a matter of something that is less potentially damaging than caffeine - which I could point multiple studies of the damages of. Thanks for the info about theophylline; however, the content of theophylline and theobromine in Yerba Mate are significantly lower (if you were to quantify a NOEL, they are around, or slightly above that level). Initial researchers thought that theophylline, theobromine, and caffeine were three of the more prominent xanthine alkaloids found in Yerba mate; newer research has shown that mateine is the main alkaloid in mate. I'll try to find more research about mateine itself.

Have a link to that site?

Rob

 

[Entity]

<< Scientific noun: Ilex paraguensis A. St. Hilaire


Family: Aquifoliaceae.

Habitat: Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay , Bolivia and Chile.

Alkaloids: mateine.

Active parts: The leaves.

Uses :

With the leaves it is done the infusion of the mat&eacute;.

Toxicity: We get the habit of drinking it but it has not got any toxicity.

Effects: Stimulant and stomachic.

>>

 

[Entity]

cxim,

BTW, about the asthma treatment, most xanthine alkaloids, as they are muscle relaxants, could be used for it; since caffeine has severe side effects to the CNS, it is not used, while theophylline is used.

Rob

 

[Entity]

<< In fact, there is only one effect that seems to be shared by all trimethyl xanthines: smooth muscle relaxation. It is this action that makes them with the exception of caffeine, whose smooth muscle relaxant effects are diminished by other side effects, good clinical dilators of the bronchi and hence useful in the treatment of asthma.
>>

 

[Entity]

Ok, I'm done now. Last one, I promise.



<< In addition to the regular nutrients, Mate contains a substance belonging to a specialized class of chemical compounds called xanthines. Though only small amounts of these substances occur in Mate, their presence has generated a huge amount of attention. The primary xanthine in Yerba Mate is called Mateine. The substance probably contributes little, if anything, to the overall activity of the plant, but has drawn a disproportionate share of speculation. Some xanthines are obviously less desirable, such as caffeine. Others, such as theophylline and theobromine, have specialized action and a characteristic set of side effects. Although the xanthines have similar chemistries, each has a unique set of properties. Researchers at the Free Hygienic Institute of Hamburg, Germany, concluded that even if there were caffeine in Mate, the amount would be so tiny that it would take 100 tea bags of Mate in a 6-ounce cup of water to equal the caffeine in a 6-ounce serving of regular coffee. Consequently, the active principle in Yerba Mate is not caffeine!

There is only one effect that seems to be shared by all xanthines: smooth muscle relaxation. It is this action that makes them (with the exception of caffeine, in which smooth muscle relaxant effects are diminished by other side effects) good clinical dilators of the bronchi and hence useful in the treatment of asthma. Mateine appears, then, to possess the best combination of xanthine properties possible. For example, like other xanthines, it stimulates the central nervous system; but unlike most, it is not habituating or addicting. Likewise, unlike caffeine, it induces better, not worse, attributes of sleep. It is a mild, not a strong, diuretic, as are many xanthines. It relaxes peripheral blood vessels, thereby reducing blood pressure, without the strong effects on the medulla oblongata (end part of the brain connecting to the spine) and heart exhibited by some xanthines. We also know that it improves psychomotor performance without the typical xanthine-induced depressant after effects. Dr. Jose Martin, Director of the National Institute of Technology in Paraguay, writes, &quot;New research and better technology have shown that while Mateine has a chemical constituency similar to caffeine, the molecular binding is different. Mateine has none of the ill effects of caffeine.&quot; And Horacio Conesa, professor at the University of Buenos Aires Medical School, states, &quot;There is not a single medical contraindication&quot; for ingesting Mate. Clinical studies show, in fact, that even individuals with caffeine sensitivities can ingest Mate without adverse reactions.
>>



It's not a miracle, but it's better than coffee, and I like it. That's all that counts.

Rob

 

[Entity]

Stallion,

Where do you live? I'm in the U-district.

Try: Whole Foods (Roosevelt &amp; 63rd), City Market - I think that's the Name (Aurora &amp; 155th, right by Sears)

Those are the only places I know of so far. Some of the PCC's, I think, have them.

Rob

 

[cxim]

here is the pharmacology site. you have to sign up but it is free.

pharmacology

this was the Yerba Mate site I looked at.

Yerba site

My point is that methylxanthenes in small doses are OK.. They have been used for years to treat asthma &amp; the toxic side effects are recognized &amp; well known.

It ( theophylline ) has a serum half life of 8 to 10 hrs &amp; you build up serum levels over time.

I suggest caution as you are talking about many cups of this tea per day.

 

[Entity]

cxim,

I'm actually only using one or, at most, two tea-bags; I'm not sure what the overall quantity would be when drinking three cups, from one tea-bag. Do you know?

Rob

 

[Entity]

Also - and this is kind of a side consideration. This has been a popular drink (considered the national drink) in South America for hundreds of years; do you know of any case studies (probably not) done on people down there, as a result of mate consumption?

I'm never one to intentionally do bad things to myself; if the half life of theophylline is as long as 8 or 10 hours, then tolerance would be a concern, if I drank a lot. However, it doesn't appear that theophylline is considerably prevalent in mate. I'd like to find out exactly how concentrated it is...hmm...

Rob

 

[cxim]

serum halflife is 8 to 10 HOURS.

The pharmacology site has the info you are looking for, metabolic pathways, serum protein binding, etc. It is a very good site for medicine /drug info. It is not as extensive as a Pharm text book but about like a PDR.

In general all chemicals of the same class are metabolized the same way with minor variations ( methylxanthenes ).

The amount you are talking about now is reasonable. I thought you were intending to drink it all day like some coffee drinkers do. I don't think a few cups a day would be a big deal, at all.

I don't know of anything published directly about mate &amp; its effects in South America. There are probably published studies in Portugese or Spanish.

 

[Stallion]

Entity, I live in Auburn. How close to lake union are you? My sister-in-law lives on boylston(sp?) right above the water there in east lake. Do you go to School at the U?