Yep, the fix is in....

[Russ]

And it's beginning to bear fruit:



<< Broward County has recounted all 588,000 ballots from 609 precincts and 49,718 absentee ballots >>



This yielded a net gain of 118 votes for Albert Jr.



<< The county canvassing board members are reviewing and counting the approximately 2,000 disputed ballots, attempting to determine the intent of the voter on each ballot. >>



Now, after just &quot;beginning&quot; this process, Gore's Goons have &quot;found&quot; 107 more, and the total is suddenly 225 votes. Let's see; over 600,000 ballots produces 118, but 2000 or so that are being evaluated for voter &quot;intent&quot; have yielded nearly as many.

Sniff, sniff.

Oh, and BTW, PBC which produced a net gain for Goreby of 19 votes in the 1% &quot;let's test to make sure a hand count would be legal&quot; is now showing a net gain of 14 for Bush. Tell me THAT wasn't a setup. Wait till they get to their &quot;intent&quot; ballots and watch what happens.

The saddest part is that there are actually still people trying to claim that this process is &quot;fair and accurate&quot;.

Russ, NCNE

 

[XMan]

I can always emigrate to Grand Cayman, I guess.

 

[yakko]

That is not as bad as I expected but I did expect cheating.

 

[Russ]

yakko,

It will get worse. The theft has to appear gradual to avoid arousing too much suspicion.

Russ, NCNE

 

[veryape]

Explain to me how anyone could possibly steal any ballots with so many republicans around. For god sakes,they almost lynched some poor guy for walking out with a ballot clearly marked as a sample ballot,which was quite a nice spin if you ask me,so how do you suppose they steal any ballots as you suggested. All this cheating crap is just to get the country and republicans in an uproar. Its called reteric. Republicans are just trying to get the public to believe that if Al Gore wins,there must have been cheating involved. They are just covering all their bases.

 

[Harvey]

Russ -- <<The saddest part is that there are actually still people trying to claim that this process is &quot;fair and accurate&quot;.>>

No, the saddest part is that there are so many whiners standing in the way of doing a good job, instead of volunteering to make sure it gets done well.

 

[Russ]

<< The saddest part is that there are actually still people trying to claim that this process is &quot;fair and accurate&quot;. >>



See last two posts.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Harvey]

Make that the last three.

 

[ride525]

I don't think there is a &quot;fix&quot; going on here....just a sincere attempt to correctly assertain the correct vote total for the ballots, including the ones that were questionable or that the machine could not read.

Without knowing exactly where the disputed ballots are from in the county, it wouldn't surprise me if the disputed ballots went 60/40 Gore. If all 2,000 disputed are settled, that would be 1200/800, or another 400 for Gore. But it is likely that not all of the disputed ballots will end up undisputed, so the totals would be less.

I would guess the reason the other counts didn't change much was that much of them were already obvious, were counted correctly by the machines, so the totals didn't change much.

I don't know how many disputed ballots that PBC still has to go through, but a 60/40 split of them would not be unreasonable guess either.

When you are counting in couties that went for Gore, it shouldn't surprise you that the disputed ballots go for Gore also.

 

[jacobnero6918]

The Fix is definitly in, you know bugsy daley will &quot;find&quot; the votes needed even if they fall off a truck.


I just hope the US supreme court has the balls to bring this nonsense to an end.

 

[Harvey]

Red -- There you go again, debasing rhetoric. I think the word you're looking for is ... <tries to think of a polite one> ... umm blather. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[SJ]

Actually PBC was doing the contested ballots as the other people in the room were counting. I don't expect Gore to gain to much in PBC, they won't be counting all dimpled or contested ballots, probably not even 1/4. Thats why Gore tried to get the courts to force PBC to count all the dimpled ballots, because they were not counting them all, only ones that showed reasonable intent. Im betting Gore will need 550 after Broward is complete, I doubt he will get that many in PBC. They already know the numbers won't add up, one of the reasons Gores legal team is working on a &quot;contest&quot; to the certification... LOL Gore knows hes lost, the numbers just don't show him getting anywhere near enough votes, he will be atleast 300 short I bet.

 

[Russ]

<< I don't think there is a &quot;fix&quot; going on here.... >>



Then explain why they found a net of 19 for Albert Jr. in a 1% sample, but now with a much larger count done, it sits at a net of 14 for Bush. The answer is simple. A manual recount without justification is illegal. So, the democrat lackey election supervisors selected precincts for the test that were MANY times more favorable for Gore then the average.

Without that net gain in the sample, the county would not be even conducting a manual recount. That's rigging, and it's fraud.



<< If all 2,000 disputed are settled, that would be 1200/800, or another 400 for Gore. >>



Then why did this not manifest itself in the first 600,000 ballots? Again, the answer is simple. When objective criteria is used, there is no significant change in the outcome. When the &quot;intent&quot; of the voter is determined by an election process dominated by democrats, the result is suddenly far more favorable for their boy.

As I said, it's sad that some still try to claim this is fair and accurate.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

<< what other proof do you have that these are part of the &quot;fix&quot;? >>



Look at the numbers, Red. Now, I realize that it requires a modicum of analytical ability to comprehend what is happening, so if you need additional help, feel free to ask.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

Red,

Republicans are watching, but democrats are controlling. From Elections Supervisors, to Circuit Judges, through Appeals Judges, all the way to the Florida State Supreme Court, it's all democrat.

Russ, NCNE

 

[PCAddict]

The theft/deception is able to take place because the observers cannot take any real steps to stop it. They are only permitted to watch. They are not permitted to interfere with the process. All they can do is take notes and raise questions after the fact, when of course it will be too late. They cannot dispute a single ballot.

 

[Russ]

<< And because they are Democrats they all must be thieving bastards willing to usurp the will of the Florida Voters right? >>



At last, you have begun to see the light.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Aquaman]

Just a musing, from someone who is interested in politics but is not directly affected by this election, but what if the shoe was on the other foot &amp; Bush was doing all the stuff that Gore is doing? Would you be so quick to jump on the 'corrupt' Republicans that are going to steal or fix the election?

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[ride525]

<< Then explain why they found a net of 19 for Albert Jr. in a 1% sample, but now with a much larger count done, it sits at a net of 14 for Bush. The answer is simple. A manual recount without justification is illegal. So, the democrat lackey election supervisors selected precincts for the test that were MANY times more favorable for Gore then the average. >>


I still don't know about the sample in PBC. I've already stated IF the sample wasn't representative, then it wasn't a &quot;sample&quot;. I don't think you, or we, actually know where the sample was picked at this time. And Russ, shoot, at this rate your boy will pick up some votes in PBC, from what you term an &quot;illegal&quot; hand count.


<< Then why did this not manifest itself in the first 600,000 ballots? Again, the answer is simple. When objective criteria is used, there is no significant change in the outcome. When the &quot;intent&quot; of the voter is determined by an election process dominated by democrats, the result is suddenly far more favorable for their boy >>


It sounds to me that the first 600,000 ballots were not very much in dispute. It was pretty clear cut which way the vote was made, and the voting machines correctly read these ballots, and not very many of these ballots were changed from the way they were originally read. So one would not expect much of a change from these ballots.

Now there are 2,000 ballots that apparently were hard for the machine to read and are in dispute. I'd assume many were machine underreads, ballots that the machine didn't assign for any candidate. If these were a cross section of the county, one would expect those that could be discerned, to go like the county voted (I assumed approximately 60/40). So if all 2,000 could be manually read, 1200 for Gore, 800 for Bush. If only 1,000 of those 2,000 could be discerned, then 600 for Gore, 400 for Bush.

This doesn't sound too bad for Bush right now. But I heard that the other county might have 10,000 disputed ballots. If that is true, and any significant number of them go for Gore 60/40, that is a lot of Gore votes to be added.

 

[Russ]

Hey, Red's words of wisdom are showing up in all kinds of signatures.



<< I've already stated IF the sample wasn't representative, then it wasn't a &quot;sample&quot;. >>



Ride525,

Clearly it was not. That is the ONLY viable explanation for the dramatic discrepancy. Thus, the manual recount is illegal.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< Hey, Red's words of wisdom are showing up in all kinds of signatures. >>

Yeah, the Archie Bunker part made me laugh.....I got permission from the author to post it....

As for the PBC sample, well I'd agree with you at this point, well it sure looks unrepresentative. But I just can't imagine some Republicans screaming &quot;foul&quot; about it if the sample wasn't &quot;representative&quot; in the first place.

I just think it would be STUPID of PBC to pick a non-representative sample. It's too easy for the Republicans to have done the analysis and complained about it's randomness or being representative.

One other (although extremely remote) reason was that the sample actually &quot;looked&quot; representative (like 60/40 Gore), but after looking at the other 99%, it turned out to not actually be representative.

I don't know on this one. The sample doesn't look very representative at this point. But, if it wasn't so representative in the first place, where were the Republicans? There has been so much retoric on both sides, that I can't imagine the Republicans passing this up. They would have screamed both in public, and at the State and Federal Court appearances. And they would have a right to, if the sample wasn't representative. Darn, I wish we could find out which areas of PBC were picked for the sample.

 

[veryape]

Russ said,


<< TextThen why did this not manifest itself in the first 600,000 ballots? Again, the answer is simple. When objective criteria is used, there is no significant change in the outcome. When the &quot;intent&quot; of the voter is determined by an election process dominated by democrats, the result is suddenly far more favorable for their boy. >>



The answer to that question is very apparent to me. ALL of the 600k were not contested. If you will note,Gore won PBC by quite a large margin. So in keeping with that trend,I would assume he will get at least 60% of the contested ballots. Am I not right about this? Please let me know if you know something I don't.[edit]oops,I didn't realize you already answered that question Red.[edit]

Also,your republican observer cronies are stopping ballots which,if observed by someone with an objective opinion would no doubt go for Gore. But they are not letting thast happen,because if its fair they will lose.

 

[Michael]

Russ - PBC's policy is to exclude ballots that are just dimpled. The Democrats are going to try and force the issue on the Canvassing Board at a meeting tomorrow. Judge Barton was in court arguing against counting dimpled ballots as it is very hard to make a reasonable determination of voter intent. They're taking the position that no punch but a dimple for Presiden coupled with punchs for other races means no vote.

Broward County is counting any dimples they can find (from what I can tell). From waht I saw of them counting on TV, they're twisting the ballots in the light to see if there is any sort of mark at all.

Bush has the right to contest any count he wants to after the numbers are certified. There are Republican judges in PBC and Broward County. There is a chance that one of them will be selected by lot to review the ballots.

Determining voter intent has always been the rule for manual counts. If the Florida Supreme Court ruling holds up, then the manual counts will be the official part of the Florida results.

If outright fraud is not proven, then I don't see what the issue is other than the suspicion that the canvassing boards are not being fair. Since humans are never &quot;fair&quot; and since manual counts are always subjective, I do not know what else can be done.

I think the the Florida Supreme Court overstepped their bounds and that the counts has been problematic. Bush can contest them all and I know that the Rebuplican observers have been keeping detailed notes of what the problem is.

ride235 - Gore will get more than 60/40 of the votes from the manual counts. PBC and Broaward have thousand more to go.

Michael

 

[Russ]

<< They would have screamed both in public, and at the State and Federal Court appearances. >>



ride525,

Maybe they have, and we haven't heard of it. Or, maybe they haven't. But a lack of protestation is actually irrelevant to the issue.

In the absence of a viable explanation to the contrary - which, thus far has not been forthcoming from anyone - the discrepancy is conclusive evidence in and of itself. The precincts were clearly picked because of the skewed picture it would provide of the accuracy of the machine count.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< The counties were clearly picked because of the skewed picture it would provide of the accuracy of the machine count. >>



Well, I'd like to see which parts of the county were picked before I made a sure statement.

It doesn't look good at this time. But, again I can't imagine the Republicans not seeing this, if so. We certainly have been discussing this for a few days. They certainly have had the same opportunity to notice. I'd be hard pressed to think that there weren't a few sharp Republicans looking at the appropriateness of the sample.

Hopefully, we will hear more, or can figure out what parts of Palm Beach County were actually picked. It would be easy to stack the sample up against the Palm Beach vote, which is available and see.