Yeah, so I'm going to go ahead and stick this in it's (moist) typical environment

Red Squirrel

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LED grow light, fully exposed PCB, not even a conformal coating or anything. I measured the leads, 110vdc. :eek:

Debating on returning this, or doing a tear down to see the rest of it so I can calculate the odds of it setting my house on fire. Though if the PSU checks out I can probably put some kind of clear coating on it.
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
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LOL, you're not going to submerge it are you. It will get plenty hot evaporate any moisture.
 

tynopik

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i would advise against any coating, would probably reduce heat transfer, making it more likely to burn up and set your house on fire
 

Jeff7

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i would advise against any coating, would probably reduce heat transfer, making it more likely to burn up and set your house on fire
And those are already PLCC2 LEDs with tiny dies. I wonder how much current they're driving through those things in order to get the light output up?
What's the power rating on that thing?

This will pump out a lot of light. The emitter die is a lot larger. PLCC2 LEDs always seem to be paired with tiny dies.
Or check out the photos in this PDF: Three dies in the green and four in the red. Want more brightness? Just keep packing more dies in there.



My LED of choice for my plants is the Luxeon Rebel. 350mW drive current:awe:, so I can do 12W per module.
They could handle 1 amp if the board gets strapped to some serious cooling.




Debating on returning this, or doing a tear down to see the rest of it so I can calculate the odds of it setting my house on fire. Though if the PSU checks out I can probably put some kind of clear coating on it.
I vote teardown, just because I want to see what they're doing for thermal management.
Is that an aluminum board?
I'm assuming 53 LEDs per string there, given the two pairs of wires. Red lights? About 106V then to drive each string in that case. :hmm:

Watch the power supply be just a bridge rectifier and a power resistor. o_O
Or maybe a linear constant-current driver. They do make some of those that'll tolerate 220V and push 20mA. Linear is easy, but usually not a very efficient way to regulate power.
 
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Red Squirrel

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i would advise against any coating, would probably reduce heat transfer, making it more likely to burn up and set your house on fire

I was actually thinking that too... anything I put will decrease it's thermal dissipation. I highly doubt they connected the thermal dissipation pad to the ground plane... if there even IS a ground plane.

CSA or cUL/ULC approved?
Nope lol. It just came in a non descript white box with chinese letters on it, like most electrical/electronic things from Ebay/Amazon.



I just tried to take one apart but it looks like it would be hard to do without breaking it, so decided to analyse it from the outside, I can confirm that there is not much as far as a filtering cap:



It's also not an isolated supply, those voltages are tested without scope's ground probe connected, so it's relative to line neutral. I'm guessing it's some kind of centre tapped psu, ch1 is connected to one terminal and ch2 is connected to other terminal. (on same side of bulb, so for one string of leds)

50ish volts from ether terminal to neutral, with one being negative. If I test voltage between both sides of the bulb (one negative and one positive) I get about 86 volts, which is rather interesting. Between two negatives or two positives I get a few hundred miliamp, which I presume is some kind of phantom voltage. So I'm almost thinking there might be two small PSUs instead of one larger one.

Surprisingly the wattage seems about right. I was getting around 0.1 amps from the wall which comes up to 12watts. It's a 10w bulb, so taking conversion losses into account it may very well be 10w of output (light/heat). Though I was using a (true RMS) clamp meter and not an inline meter so not sure how accurate that is for low amperages.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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Darn, no tear-down. :(

Something like that was probably glued together. Screws add cost, especially if something's not meant to be serviceable.

At work, I once took apart a $50 OPEN sign. Fascinating stuff in there:
A vacuum-formed polystyrene body, two hand-placed flexstrips of green LEDs with globs of hot glue holding them in place, hand-soldered wire connections, wires taped down to keep them from causing shadows, the face held on with double-sided tape, and the rear panel had metal foil tape on it with the ground wire foil-taped to that.
Every last fraction of a cent had been forcibly wrung out of that poor thing.




I was actually thinking that too... anything I put will decrease it's thermal dissipation. I highly doubt they connected the thermal dissipation pad to the ground plane... if there even IS a ground plane.
Not always a good idea.

Not all LEDs have an electrically isolated thermal pad. Those look like regular 2-pin PLCC2 LEDs, so the only thermal pad they've got is one of the electrical contacts.

Does it look like an aluminum circuitboard, or FR4 or phenolic?

What's the case made of?
 

Red Squirrel

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Not sure what type of circuit board, I don't really know too much about this stuff tbh, but it does look fairly standard, like fibreglass or what not. It is a bit shiny, so it has a solder mask I presume. The case is plastic.

And yeah looking at it closer there probably isin't a thermal pad behind the LED. Typically they would be in paralell and depend on the ground plane but since they're in series they don't have much of a thermal dissipation path. Probably why they did not bother to cover it with anything, they just depend on free air to dissipate the heat.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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It's easy to build something to last, it takes a lot of effort to make something cheap.
I think it only takes a lot of effort to make something cheap if you also care at all about quality. (Having really cheap labor available helps too.)



Not sure what type of circuit board, I don't really know too much about this stuff tbh, but it does look fairly standard, like fibreglass or what not. It is a bit shiny, so it has a solder mask I presume. The case is plastic.

And yeah looking at it closer there probably isin't a thermal pad behind the LED. Typically they would be in paralell and depend on the ground plane but since they're in series they don't have much of a thermal dissipation path. Probably why they did not bother to cover it with anything, they just depend on free air to dissipate the heat.
Got a link to what you bought?

Thermals: Manufacturers of SMT devices that need to dissipate heat often recommend enlarged connection pads, so a part that only takes up 12 square millimeters might have a recommended footprint that is >100 square millimeters in order to try to pull heat away from the device.
 
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kage69

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Jul 17, 2003
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I'm learning from this thread.


I've been charged with replacing an assortment of succulents that did not survive a combination of transplanting and too much bug control. A guy at a store told us being next to a window won't cut it, you need dedicated lights. He recommended marshydro.com for a fixture. Even though those prices look decent for what you get I still think I can make something as good or better for less money.

It's amazing how far this stuff has come in a relatively short amount of time, I decided to hit youtube to check out testimonials not too long ago and the indoor set ups people have now are just unreal. Plasma lights? Holy crap! I'm from the 'get ready for spring with 2 shop lights' school. ;)
 
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Jeff7

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Jan 4, 2001
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I'm learning from this thread.


I've been charged with replacing an assortment of succulents that did not survive a combination of transplanting and too much bug control. A guy at a store told us being next to a window won't cut it, you need dedicated lights. He recommended marshydro.com for a fixture. Even though those prices look decent for what you get I still think I can make something as good or better for less money.
Depends on where you are in the US. I've lived my whole life in the northeast, and several years ago I moved a bit farther north. I still can't quite see Canada from my house, but it's a lot closer. ;)
Most succulent plants won't survive freezing temperatures in the first place, and the ones that do grow are typically small. I was in California for the first time for work and was amazed to see huge succulents all over the place, and huge cacti just growing in yards like normal decorative bushes. Nothing like some extra sunlight and warm weather to help with that.

With inadequate light, growth will be stunted, or else the plant will be long and spindly as it tries to stretch toward the dim light, and the colors will usually be a boring green. Most of these things evolved under constant exposure to very bright light. The leaves on one variety I have are covered with a fuzz that helps reduce the amount of light beating down on the leaves. Others live mostly underground, with only the windowed tips of the leaves showing above ground to let light into the interior of the leaves for photosynthesis.

The red-orange one on the left in this photo was a standard green when I bought it, due to low ambient light in the store.
Everything seems to be doing alright under my lighting array. I still might add a pinch of IR and UV to the mix, but I don't know if they're needed, or exactly what wavelengths to use.



It's amazing how far this stuff has come in a relatively short amount of time, I decided to hit youtube to check out testimonials not too long ago and the indoor set ups people have now are just unreal. Plasma lights? Holy crap! I'm from the 'get ready for spring with 2 shop lights' school. ;)
With all the R&D money getting pumped into LED lighting, there's sure to be some spillover into related markets like this one.



You can buy 100 watt LED emitters for less than $10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M
That's for a white-light flashlight using a CoB (chip-on-board) emitter module.
OP's light emits (so say the specs;)) a mixture of blue and red light. The idea behind growlights like this is energy savings: Only emit the colors colors that will be used for photosynthesis. White LEDs put out a narrow band of blue directly from the emitter die, along with a wideband emission of roughly yellowish light that comes from the yellow phosphor. Your eye interprets the mess as white light. The phosphor can be altered to change the color temperature of the light emitted. Cheap white LEDs tend to be very cool in color. Walmart uses them in their frozen foods section, and unfortunately, this is what people think LED lighting "should" look like.

At work, I made a lightbox that approximated a halogen bulb as the light source, even though it was good quality LED emitters.
"Ew, that looks old. It's too yellow. LEDs are more blue than that."
-"But those are LEDs in there."
"Doesn't matter, white LEDs should look blue. Build another one."

The first white LEDs were on the blue side, and the reason that cheap ones are often very blue is that the phosphor is cheaper and there's less of it needed. Since less is absorbed and lost in the thinner phosphor, you can put a higher lumen rating on the package, and bigger numbers sell more product.
So you can have white LEDs that emit 2700K or 3000K, just like an incandescent or halogen light bulb, but a lot of the public thinks that LEDs "shouldn't" look that way, or they don't want to bother with LEDs because most of what they see are the blue-tinted cool whites beyond 6000K.
 
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Red Squirrel

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You can buy 100 watt LED emitters for less than $10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

While those MIGHT work for growing, the idea behind the ones with red/blue is that they are special LED modules that are putting off very specific wave lenghts for plants, as with any white light most of it is wasted. You can use CFLs for grow lights as well, but a lot of that light does go to waste.

I will also have incandescents in my setup, though those will be only for heat. Basically they'll only go on as required. I believe to germinate stuff you need a decent amount of heat... at least that's my guess because I've been trying to germinate a spruce tree for months and nothing. My cardboard box setup is not really insulated though, it was just something I threw together quickly. Mostly doing this for fun and experimental sake at this point.

As for growing in window, the problem with that is there is only like 8 hours of light (less at any specific window) for a good chunk of the year. When it's summer then you get like 16 hours, but that's a very short time of the year, maybe a few months.
 

Red Squirrel

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Tear down pics! :D

I decided to try a bit harder to see if I could pop the board out, and to my surprise, it literally, popped out!





The board indeed has some kind of aluminium backing.

I'm not sure what those red things are, some kind of capacitor? Says 474j 250v on it. Those electrolytics are in fact filter caps, but obviously arn't big enough considering the wave form. They're 4.7 uf, rated at 400v. I'd be tempted to look to see if I can find some higher rating ones and swap them out.
 
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kage69

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Jul 17, 2003
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I can make Montreal in about an hour and a half, so pretty close here too. Not as close as the family farm in Maine (screw border front, it's border on! The property line is the St. Croix river for about half a mile).

In VT now though.


I kind of like the sound of those induction lights, and not just because I dig Tesla. Full spectrum, low heat, crazy long lifespan like LEDs. Sounds like super charged CFLs.
Just read about California Lightworks products, holy crap. Mind = blown
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,201
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I'm not sure what those red things are, some kind of capacitor? Says 474j 250v on it. Those electrolytics are in fact filter caps, but obviously arn't big enough considering the wave form. They're 4.7 uf, rated at 400v. I'd be tempted to look to see if I can find some higher rating ones and swap them out.

I think the greens are CCB caps and the greens are e-caps? Been awhile for me though
 
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