YAY, new 46" HDTV!

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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My darling mother-in-law bought us a beautiful new LCD HDTV, the Samsung LN46B540

Right now, it just has cable plugged in, but I want it to play games and show movies, and as a user interface to play audio files.

Since I am broke, I can't do it all at once, but over the next 3 months I may have 500-700 to spend. Can't see how to really do it for the money.

How do I want the system to look when I am done? It's nice to dream:

* 5.1 audio, with at least two good speakers and 10" sub for playing music.
* A budget but quality receiver/amp which powers the speakers and allows for connecting everything else. May have to go refurb.
* A HT/Game PC plugged into either the TV or the receiver.
* Single remote required, wireless KB, mouse, headphones.
* Wife-acceptable == pretty.

Any ways to cut corners or costs?

The TV has many inputs and allows source switching, but do I want to avoid passing audio through it for quality reasons? It has digital in and out..

Non-PC speakers all require some type of amp, and it seems more recommended to use a receiver/amp as the center of connectivity, rather than the PC or TV. That requires that the receiver's remote be used, or purchase of a universal remote?
Would it be reasonable to just use an amp and speakers, plugged into the TV's outputs?

If using the computer as an audio source, it needs a decent sound card?

With this TV, using DVI-to-HDMI or the VGA video inputs both require a separate cable for audio, while that is not indicated for HDMI-HDMI connection. If using a video card with HDMI output or HDTV-out, does that provide good digital audio out?

When are the next price drops coming for video cards, maybe I should wait a bit?

I read a bunch about it but I am just getting more confusted. Pardon me if this should be in general hardware forum.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Forget a PC altogether -- get a PS3. Blu-Ray, streaming anything (with PlayOn), games (of course) and music, all for rather less than a PC that would work. Only issue is the "single remote" angle, I guess, but a PC won't be much easier.

How big is the room?
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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Thanks for the reply s44.

The room itself is 20' x 50', open floor plan, but the living room part of it (the couches, where I really want surround sound) is about 20 x 25'

I had considered a game console, but I so far have only ever played PC games, no joystick skillz :(
That is really interesting about PlayOn.

As far as Blu-Ray, I figured it won't be long before everything is file-based and a quiet dvd player would hold me until then.
I don't buy DVDs, or even keep them if given. I don't watch a movie more than once. I don't ever check out the "extra features' on a disc. Netflix is a possibility I suppose, my gal seems interested in that.

If I had plenty of cash, would it make sense at all to do what I was thinking?
 

sivart

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
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Harmony remotes can be had for under $50 if you shop around enough. Mine works with Vista MC with no issues. You can buy a $20 IR adapter for the PS3 that will do everything but power on the unit. (http://www.schmartstuff.com/sony-ps3-ir-upgrad.html)

TVersity will get you everything streaming through the PS3 less Netflix / Hulu, so that can save you another $40.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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I think the main reason that s44 recommends to forget the PC is cost. You could buy a PS3 for around $300, and it would play every game flawlessly, play BD, and stream anything (even Hulu) with PlayOn. Even if everything goes file-based, you'll still be able to stream the video to your PS3 although you might need a wired network connection to stream HD.

The PC on the other hand is going to eat up your entire $500-700 budget, and that's not even for a high-end PC. Therefore, it may or may not play BD (depending on how much you spend on other components), and it probably won't have the ability to play games as well as the PS3.

I recommend making your wish list a long-term one. Spend about $300 on a PS3 plus $100 a budget receiver and everything else on the best set of bookshelf speakers you can afford. Here's a recommendation that PJABBER posted that might be beneficial to you. In fact, that whole thread would be worth reading. As you save up money over time, you'll be able to add a sub, center, and surround speakers. Eventually you might want to add a gaming PC. However, to buy even a basic gaming PC plus an inexpensive yet halfway-decent-sounding 5.1 setup (I wouldn't consider a $200-$400 HTIB a halfway-decent-sounding setup) would easily cost you $1,500.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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How do you have a 20*50 space with only a $500 HT budget? ;)

Anyway, I agree with kalrith -- one bit at a time. Realize that in that sort of big space you really ought to budget at least $500 *just for the subwoofer*. Also, those tiny speakers that make up a lot of PJABBER's thread won't cut it -- get full-size bookshelves. (Cheap is OK, but you want full-size drivers.)

Here's the order I'd go:
PS3
cheap AVR + 2 bookshelves
subwoofer
3 additional speakers
AVR upgrade, if you want

With a somewhat higher budget and PS3-phobia, I *still* wouldn't mess around with assembling a HTPC: I'd buy a laptop with HDMI output instead. But that's just me.
 

Chapbass

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
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Originally posted by: sivart
Harmony remotes can be had for under $50 if you shop around enough. Mine works with Vista MC with no issues. You can buy a $20 IR adapter for the PS3 that will do everything but power on the unit. (http://www.schmartstuff.com/sony-ps3-ir-upgrad.html)

TVersity will get you everything streaming through the PS3 less Netflix / Hulu, so that can save you another $40.

If you feel like spending an additional couple bucks, the actual logitech ps3 adapter is flawless, doesn't take up a usb port, and can turn it on and off perfectly (i didn't look very closely at the linked one, and I know there are some that can do the on off stuff, but I set up the logitech one last night, absolutely perfect).

Thatll get rid of the remote issue.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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So to sum up: "I know - It's crazy!"

I hate to give up on PC gaming, but it needs to make sense!

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. For now, I will play only old games and watch only cable.

SUX don't it.. Honestly, I should get a bike before any of this stuff.

PS: That room dimension includes living room, kitchen, bathroom, and stairs.




 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: trexpesto
So to sum up: "I know - It's crazy!"

I hate to give up on PC gaming, but it needs to make sense!

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. For now, I will play only old games and watch only cable.

SUX don't it.. Honestly, I should get a bike before any of this stuff.

PS: That room dimension includes living room, kitchen, bathroom, and stairs.

What is your current PC? If the specs aren't too bad, then you might only need a new video card to play current games and use it as an HTPC. It won't play them with the graphics turned up all the way, but it might suffice for now and allow more of your budget to go toward the audio portion.

s44, I didn't realize that those were small bookshelves. I agree that he'll want full-sized drivers.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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Thanks for the suggestions. I broke my ankle, so haven't been checking AT.
But it has made it more worthwhile to spend cash on the TV setup.

Unfortunately I have an old Socket A Abit NF7 AGP mobo w/ ATI 9800Pro->XT so I'd be in the cart for everything but case, fans and drives.

First, I will get some decent 2.1 speakers and a receiver/amp, keeping an eye out for a good deal on htib with good 2.1 portion.

I am considering waiting until the 35nm CPUs come out to see how much 45nm prices fall, or if one could save on power bills with 35nm.

In the meantime, PS3 sounds like the smart option because of PlayOn, BR, and besides, it may have decent resale value.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: trexpesto
First, I will get some decent 2.1 speakers and a receiver/amp, keeping an eye out for a good deal on htib with good 2.1 portion.

In the opinion of many on this forum, the bolded statement does not exist. First of all, most HTIB are 5.1 to 7.1, so that means a portion of your budget will be going towards the surround speakers instead of focusing on having "two good speakers and 10" sub for playing music." Also, HTIB usually come with really small, cruddy speakers and a passive sub (also crappy).

Anyways, as already mentioned in this thread, I'd just go with a basic receiver and then spend everything you can afford on a good set of bookshelves.
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
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ps3 streams everything? even hd content (like mkv files) or subtitled files? or is the same streaming as the xbox 360?
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: maziwanka
ps3 streams everything? even hd content (like mkv files) or subtitled files? or is the same streaming as the xbox 360?

Not natively, but it can with the PS3 Media Server. I assume that the XBOX360 would be able to do the same with the PS3 Media Server. Here's a quote from the avsforum thread on the PS3 Media Server:

I personnally stream a 720p MKV (h264+DTS+subtitle) in real time using my old Pentium 4 C @ 3Hgz (yes, a 5 year old pentium). 1080p would need a stronger processor, as the author uses a Core2Duo.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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S44, those look like a great deal.
If I can later add more speakers for 5.1, after the sub, what would be a good addition to these? Onkyo or Pioneer receiver would be a good match for them?

Also, thinking of a receiver that can take hdmi video in for when I get a new computer and vid card. HD audio from computer adds to my confusion.
What is a desirable set of inputs for future compatibility?
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Originally posted by: trexpesto
S44, those look like a great deal.
If I can later add more speakers for 5.1, after the sub, what would be a good addition to these?
More Betas, if you have the space. ;)

You can actually find them at decent prices on eBay. They used to have Beta 50 towers directly from Harman for a song, but those seem mostly gone now.

Otherwise, get another Beta (a third 20 or the C250/C360 dedicated center) for the center and whatever you like for the sides.

Onkyo or Pioneer receiver would be a good match for them?

Also, thinking of a receiver that can take hdmi video in for when I get a new computer and vid card. HD audio from computer adds to my confusion.
What is a desirable set of inputs for future compatibility?
What you need depends on room size. For a small room any current-year Pioneer (I think all have HDMI this year) or Onkyo over 507 (or the oddly named HC-RC160 Newegg has a nice price on) would do, because the Betas are pretty efficient. But you have a big room, so if you have any interest in listening to movies at reference volume ( :D ) I'd suggest something like this Marantz ($350, free shipping with code) with lots of power and pre-outs... If you had that budget.

As it is, I half think you should skip HDMI altogether and just get a $100 AVR for now. However, the low-end Pioneer is a pretty good deal for $188 shipped -- not a ton of power, but real HDMI and should be fine with the Betas.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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There is an Infinity Beta 50 tower in black at ishopit for $325, if anyone is looking. That is not an endorsement of their site, just saw it.

S44, I couldn't find a reference to that HC-RC160 that you mentioned. Not HT-RC160?
I appreciate your suggestions.

 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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Yes, you're right, sorry for the typo.

Again, I suspect it's not worth it for you to spend more than the cost of the Pioneer 519 at this point. Or maybe one of the refurb H/Ks on eBay.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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OK, looking at the two cheapest models of Pioneers, the 519 and the newer 819 for half-again as much cost.
819 says it has Dolby TrueHD and ETS decoders. How do I figure out if those are, or will be, needed now or in the next few years?
I am guessing this is nothing you can firmware upgrade. The tale of the tape reveals that the 819 uses the 32-bit Aureus by Texas Instruments audio chip and has USB for ipod as a source drive, an extra hdmi in, record outs, a remote.

519 Decoders: PCM via HDMI, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Pro-Logic II, DTS 96/24, DTS 5.1

819 Decoders: PCM via HDMI, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS-ES, DTS-Express, DTS 96/24, DTS NEO:6, DTS 5.1

Is the pace of change in audio standards always like this and I never noticed? Or will it stabilize for a period? I'd rather get something that will work for a while because obviously I am not good at shopping for this gear. Even though this is just 5.1 and not 7.1.

If the 819 was going for under 250, I'd get it right now. As is, still looking around.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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S44,
The tower speakers mostly all say they take more wattage, so could 100 watts a channel run them well enough to sound good, even if not being able to reach max volume?

Should I get two pairs of the betas 20s or would they not make good rear-side speakers?


 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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The HD codecs (TrueHD, DTS-MA) are for Blu-Ray, but all modern players (including the PS3) can decode them on-board to PCM before sending them out to the AVR. So the real dividing line is whether a receiver can handle PCM over HDMI or not. Those other formats on the 819 are ways of matrixing two-channel to 5.1 or 5.1 to 7.1. Don't worry about that stuff.

You don't need the max watts to run any speakers. But I thought you were in a seriously compressed budget? Get one pair of Betas and see if you like them...
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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Wow I hadn't noticed the shipping for TD's Infinity's is 66 dollars for "ground" - still sounds like a good deal because the cheapest elsewhere was like 120 each speaker

What is required to get surround sound from a PS3 or PC to work correctly through a receiver?
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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You're right, I hadn't noticed that. The manufacturer has started offering them again on ebay though -- $110 FS.

All you need is the right receiver and HDMI cable. (Or optical/coax, for non-lossless surround.)