YAWT: Yet Another Workout Threat...this time it's simple (I hope!)

[scootermaster]

I HATE doing cardio, but I know I need to. It's hard for me to put on weight, but I've been SLOWLY doing so (I don't eat enough usually, and my diet is probably a B-...where A is nothing but steamed veggies and grilled chicken, and F is nothing but McDonalds...I eat what I want by try to be somewhat smart about it).

Anyway, I'm a little over 6'4" and about 205 (I was up to 209, but I got sick for about 2 weeks and couldn't hit the gym, which of course makes me lose weight, not gain). I would guestimate that my bodyfat is somewhere between 13%-18%. I'm muscular, but not "big" by any means..

So, anyway, on to the question...if order to keep building mass, when's the best time to do cardio? I'm not going to do anything crazy...probably just the fat-burn interval training mode on the elliptical...20 minutes, alternates between hilly and flat.

Should I do that on my off days, before my workout or after my workout (or some combination thereof?)

Thanks!

 

[Jahee]

Whats your aim firstly?

If you're doing cardio to loose body fat then i read the best time to do it is early morning, before breakfast, but i only read that somewhere so don't quote me on it, cardio isn't my strong point.

 

[Special K]

You can do it first thing in the morning, but don't do it on an empty stomach. When you first wake up, you haven't eaten in several hours and are already in a catabolic state. Going and immediately doing cardio will put you into an even more catabolic state, which could burn off muscle.

In short, you can do the cardio first thing in the morning, but don't do it on an empty stomach. Even a protein shake would be better than nothing.

 

[RagingBITCH]

I've always done it on a fasted stomach early in the morning. Glycogen stores are empty, burns fast. There's differing opinions on this - as Special K wrote above. It's what's worked for me when cutting.

 

[crt1530]

Off days or after your workout if you must. Never before.

 

[KillerCharlie]

People are going to give you wildly varying advice based on "their experience" or "something they read." I don't believe anything these people say unless it has been published in a well respected medical journal.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
People are going to give you wildly varying advice based on "their experience" or "something they read." I don't believe anything these people say unless it has been published in a well respected medical journal.

I question whether any team of researchers is ever going to conduct a study on such a thing. A lot of workout advice is based on anecdotal evidence. If you want to search Pubmed for a journal article on the best time of day to do cardio, be my guest.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
People are going to give you wildly varying advice based on "their experience" or "something they read." I don't believe anything these people say unless it has been published in a well respected medical journal.

I question whether any team of researchers is ever going to conduct a study on such a thing. A lot of workout advice is based on anecdotal evidence. If you want to search Pubmed for a journal article on the best time of day to do cardio, be my guest.

The funny thing about all this debate is that for 99% of people it doesn't really matter. So, what, you're operating at 94% efficiency instead of 97%? The vast majority of people don't have the genetics, inclination or know how to make any of these slight variations matter. The reality is, they (myself included, of course) just want to have a nice piece of mind when we're working out; know we're not wasting our time. I have to keep telling myself though that it probably doesn't matter much.

At any rate, to answer some above questions, I have a couple of goals which may or may not be going counter to each other. I'm in pretty poor cardiovascular shape, so for just general health reasons, it couldn't hurt to increase that. I would also like to burn a little fat and cut up a bit, but I don't want to lose muscle, which as I said, is hard for me to put on. I know that you can't really do both (cut and bulk) at the same time, so that's not really the issue. I just want to make sure I'm healthy. So if I get a little smaller or whatever, it's not the end of the world. I wouldn't mind being my current weight, but at 10% bodyfat. (My end goal is to be about 215 and 8-10%, but who knows if I'll ever get there. But that, at 6'4", is about the body I'd like).

So it seems like off days and/or after workouts.

Any ideas as to what to do, cardio-wise? Keep in mind, I hate doing it.

 

[vi edit]

The "best" time is one that you can actually manage to make a routine out of. Simply exercising is better than nothing.

If you exercise at an "optimal" time once a week and skip the other three times it's all in vain.

If you can do it most consistently in the morning, then do it in the morning. If you are an afternoon person, then do it in the afternoon.

All the hoopla over "perfect fat burning times" is useless if you can't get your butt out of bed in the mornings.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
People are going to give you wildly varying advice based on "their experience" or "something they read." I don't believe anything these people say unless it has been published in a well respected medical journal.

I question whether any team of researchers is ever going to conduct a study on such a thing. A lot of workout advice is based on anecdotal evidence. If you want to search Pubmed for a journal article on the best time of day to do cardio, be my guest.

The funny thing about all this debate is that for 99% of people it doesn't really matter. So, what, you're operating at 94% efficiency instead of 97%? The vast majority of people don't have the genetics, inclination or know how to make any of these slight variations matter. The reality is, they (myself included, of course) just want to have a nice piece of mind when we're working out; know we're not wasting our time. I have to keep telling myself though that it probably doesn't matter much.

At any rate, to answer some above questions, I have a couple of goals which may or may not be going counter to each other. I'm in pretty poor cardiovascular shape, so for just general health reasons, it couldn't hurt to increase that. I would also like to burn a little fat and cut up a bit, but I don't want to lose muscle, which as I said, is hard for me to put on. I know that you can't really do both (cut and bulk) at the same time, so that's not really the issue. I just want to make sure I'm healthy. So if I get a little smaller or whatever, it's not the end of the world. I wouldn't mind being my current weight, but at 10% bodyfat. (My end goal is to be about 215 and 8-10%, but who knows if I'll ever get there. But that, at 6'4", is about the body I'd like).

So it seems like off days and/or after workouts.

Any ideas as to what to do, cardio-wise? Keep in mind, I hate doing it.

You have a very good point - for the vast majority of the genetically-average popluation, worrying about little crap like 6 reps vs. 8, 20g of protein in meal #4 vs 35g, whether or not to group protein and fat in the same meal, etc. is pointless. It simply isn't going to have a measureable effect in the grand scheme of things. For most people, building a better physique comes down to 3 very simple things:

1. Get a routine consisting of basic compound movements (squat, bench, deadlift, dips, rows, chins, overhead press, etc.) that doesn't involve anything too illogical (i.e., training chest directly 4x per week or something)

2. Eat sufficient quantities of healthy food necessary for either growth or dieting, depending on your goals

3. Get plenty of rest and water

Nail those 3 things and you have already accounted for 90% of what is under your control. Note I am speaking from a strictly bodybuilding perspective. Strength and sports-specific training is not my area of interest (at the momemt, anyway).

Anyway, to answer your question, I would rather just refer you to the board in my sig. There are some people there who could give you much better advice than me, especially since I do not make much use of cardio in my routines.

 

[Tencntraze]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
The "best" time is one that you can actually manage to make a routine out of. Simply exercising is better than nothing.

If you exercise at an "optimal" time once a week and skip the other three times it's all in vain.

If you can do it most consistently in the morning, then do it in the morning. If you are an afternoon person, then do it in the afternoon.

All the hoopla over "perfect fat burning times" is useless if you can't get your butt out of bed in the mornings.

Agreed. If there is a difference in doing some amount of cardio in the morning vs doing the same amount later in the day, it's probably not large enough that it would be offset by that one 'cheat' item that you let slip in a meal, or had larger portions of food. If you keep your diet perfect 24/7 and you still need that extra edge, have at it, but I suspect this is a very edge case, so to speak.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: Tencntraze

Originally posted by: vi_edit
The "best" time is one that you can actually manage to make a routine out of. Simply exercising is better than nothing.

If you exercise at an "optimal" time once a week and skip the other three times it's all in vain.

If you can do it most consistently in the morning, then do it in the morning. If you are an afternoon person, then do it in the afternoon.

All the hoopla over "perfect fat burning times" is useless if you can't get your butt out of bed in the mornings.

Agreed. If there is a difference in doing some amount of cardio in the morning vs doing the same amount later in the day, it's probably not large enough that it would be offset by that one 'cheat' item that you let slip in a meal, or had larger portions of food. If you keep your diet perfect 24/7 and you still need that extra edge, have at it, but I suspect this is a very edge case, so to speak.

I think I may have overshot my target here...probably put too much info in there. I just wanted to know if it really mattered when I did my cardio. It's no so much that I care about what is "best" (although I guess it couldn't hurt to know) it's more that if there was some good reason that "if you do cardio before your workout, your weiner shrinks" it would have been good to know. It seems it doesn't matter, so I'll probably do it after I work out or on off days if I can get my ass to motivate to go to the gym extra days.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: Tencntraze

Originally posted by: vi_edit
The "best" time is one that you can actually manage to make a routine out of. Simply exercising is better than nothing.

If you exercise at an "optimal" time once a week and skip the other three times it's all in vain.

If you can do it most consistently in the morning, then do it in the morning. If you are an afternoon person, then do it in the afternoon.

All the hoopla over "perfect fat burning times" is useless if you can't get your butt out of bed in the mornings.

Agreed. If there is a difference in doing some amount of cardio in the morning vs doing the same amount later in the day, it's probably not large enough that it would be offset by that one 'cheat' item that you let slip in a meal, or had larger portions of food. If you keep your diet perfect 24/7 and you still need that extra edge, have at it, but I suspect this is a very edge case, so to speak.

I think I may have overshot my target here...probably put too much info in there. I just wanted to know if it really mattered when I did my cardio. It's no so much that I care about what is "best" (although I guess it couldn't hurt to know) it's more that if there was some good reason that "if you do cardio before your workout, your weiner shrinks" it would have been good to know. It seems it doesn't matter, so I'll probably do it after I work out or on off days if I can get my ass to motivate to go to the gym extra days.

Since you mentioned it in this post, I advise you to avoid doing cardio at all costs before lifting if you want to have a productive time heaving the iron. If you do cardio prior to lifting you likely have burned off all your energy and are flat when it comes to your lifts.

Oddly enough enough, lifting really doesn't seem to impair my cardio that much if I hit the treadmill or bike afterwards. Plus you are good and warmed up from lifting and your body is ready to get the calorie burning.

 

[jiggahertz]

Um, so let me get this straight. You are bulking. You don't put on weight easily. And your question is when you should be doing your cardio? Your time would be better served by getting your diet in check.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: jiggahertz
Um, so let me get this straight. You are bulking. You don't put on weight easily. And your question is when you should be doing your cardio? Your time would be better served by getting your diet in check.

No, I need to do cardio. I don't care if I lose weight because of it. My lack of wind is starting to really effect me in sports and stuff and I'm tired of it. I've probably only been in good cardiovascular shape once or twice in my life (when I ran track). So I want to get back into shape. I was just wondering if there was a time that least impeded my lifts. It seems like there is; any time not right before.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: jiggahertz
Um, so let me get this straight. You are bulking. You don't put on weight easily. And your question is when you should be doing your cardio? Your time would be better served by getting your diet in check.

No, I need to do cardio. I don't care if I lose weight because of it. My lack of wind is starting to really effect me in sports and stuff and I'm tired of it. I've probably only been in good cardiovascular shape once or twice in my life (when I ran track). So I want to get back into shape. I was just wondering if there was a time that least impeded my lifts. It seems like there is; any time not right before.

Ok, sorry. I misunderstood your motivation behind the cardio. Yeah, I prefer to do it right after lifting.