YAWoWT: DPS gear question...

hpkeeper

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
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I have a level 60 shaman, he's my first 60 so I'm headed into a portion of the game that I've never had experience in...

I'm trying to set up 3 sets of armor:

DPS
Healing
Tank

Right now, for PvP purposes I'm going to start upgrading DPS because I can't do much with the stuff I have. So I was wondering... what is more important in my weapon?

example: which is more valuable for DPS?

a dagger for instance that has like a speed of 1.7 but does only 70-90 damage

-or-

a two handed mace that has a speed of 3.8 but does 150-280 damage


*confused*


~ThEkEeP~
 

LeetViet

Platinum Member
Mar 6, 2003
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Top end damage (a.k.a. slow weapon) with Windfury.

I wouldn't bother to try and tank.
 

hpkeeper

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
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a low end damage with a high speed of attack is going to get more hits in than a 2 handed weapon... correct? is two handed w/windfury still better than a low end with high speed?

if you do the math you're going to more frequently have a chance of striking more than once using windfury with a faster weapon than a slower one.
 

Gagabiji

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: hpkeeper
a low end damage with a high speed of attack is going to get more hits in than a 2 handed weapon... correct? is two handed w/windfury still better than a low end with high speed?

if you do the math you're going to more frequently have a chance of striking more than once using windfury with a faster weapon than a slower one.

However, getting the extra strike in with a slower weapon is going to do much more damage. It may not proc as often, however, it will be much more burst damage when it does.
 

Noema

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: hpkeeperif you do the math you're going to more frequently have a chance of striking more than once using windfury with a faster weapon than a slower one.

Both the fast and the slow weapon have a 20% chance of proccing WF.

For Windfury a slow two hander is the best, because weapon speed doesn't really matter since the extra two hits are 'instant' yet still factor in the 3.8 speed. That's why big slow weapons are great for 'free' instant attacks:they are big blows. Even if a fast 1hander and a slow two hander do the same damage over time, the slow one will be better for instants because the slow one does more damage on a hit per hit basis.

That's why you'd see all those Warriors with Arcanite Reapers and slow 3.8 weapons back in the day: Because Mortal Strike is instant, the slower the weapon, the better because you'd get all the damage without having to factor in attack delay.

Some people prefer a faster one hander, but keep in mind that the fast speed will result in smaller individual hits. And in PvP you don't want sustained DPS: you want big, fat burst crits which can kill people fast.

I however suggest going the Elemental route if you are planning on PvPing with a Shaman. Windfury is a roulette of sorts: one time you one shot someone with a triple crit Windfury procs, but the remainder 80% of the time you are just going to be standing there with no procs and hitting people by 200-300. And people will focus fire you and you'll die in seconds. It can get very frustrating.

Another problem with enhancement is the gear you need. You need tons of Strength and Agility gear, but it's hard to find mail that has both. And it's very easy to neglect Stamina and Intellect when hunting for Strength and Agility gear (and you'll have to fight hunters for it, and we know how greedy they can be ;) ), and you end up with 3000HP and 3000 Mana at 60, which means you get two shotted by everyone and have barely enough mana for a couple of shocks.

Back when I was an enhancement shaman, I made a list of the best possible Enhancement gear and, while it would have been great, the amount of work required into getting all that would have been insane. It's just so not worth it.

For 1v1 PvP, Enhancement is okay, but Elemental is better for group PvP: most of the shaman gear is geared for elemental / resto shaman; you'll do more damage and you'll also have more mana for heals. And you have control over your damage, as opposed to relying on the Winfury roulette as I mentioned earlier.

As a Shaman your job in PvP Battlegrounds and the upcoming arenas is support: totems and heals, with shocks used for crowd control: ES for interrupts; FS for snares and Fire Shock to unstealth rogues. A shaman has some of the fastest heals in the game (Lesser Healing wave is 1.5 seconds) and you also have an instant heal with Nature's Swiftness. A shaman who doesn't heal in PvP might as well not exist.

If you just run around with a two hander trying to kill mages, you'll not only look ridiculous. You'll be useless for your team.
 

hpkeeper

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
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I've been split between restoration and enhancement, 26 and 25 respectively. The resto is up to natures swiftness and the enhancement is just benefits I thought would be best for my Shaman.

It seems like Shamans have a rough road, as they don't seem to have a defined role in WoW.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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I answered you in your thread on the WoW forums.

As for spec, do yourself a favor and put 30+ in enhancement, if you're going enhancement. The other 20 (or 21, your choice) can go in elemental for the 'suicide' build, or resto. The cookie cutter builds exist for a reason; they're the best.
 

Noema

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: hpkeeper


It seems like Shamans have a rough road, as they don't seem to have a defined role in WoW.

You are right. Shaman have it rough right now. I'd say they are the worst class in WoW at the moment, unfortunately.

They don't have high DPS. They can do some burst damage but that's it.

They can't really tank, at least not compared to Warriors, Druids or even Paladins.

They are subpar healers, worse than priests, Druids and Paladins. They do have fast heals, but are mana inefficient.

Their buffs are also inferior to those of Paladins. Whereas the Paladin actually buffs people, Shaman rely on totems, which while powerful, are stationary and thus impractical.

And if you are planning on raiding, you are expected to do nothing but heal. Which is fine, because not everyone can heal, but again, Shaman are quite inferior to the other healing classes.

This will probably change by the expansion, but as of know, Shaman are the main reason Horde is so far back behind the alliance in both PvE and PvP.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: Noema
Originally posted by: hpkeeper


It seems like Shamans have a rough road, as they don't seem to have a defined role in WoW.

You are right. Shaman have it rough right now. I'd say they are the worst class in WoW at the moment, unfortunately.

They don't have high DPS. They can do some burst damage but that's it.

They can't really tank, at least not compared to Warriors, Druids or even Paladins.

They are subpar healers, worse than priests, Druids and Paladins. They do have fast heals, but are mana inefficient.

Their buffs are also inferior to those of Paladins. Whereas the Paladin actually buffs people, Shaman rely on totems, which while powerful, are stationary and thus impractical.

And if you are planning on raiding, you are expected to do nothing but heal. Which is fine, because not everyone can heal, but again, Shaman are quite inferior to the other healing classes.

This will probably change by the expansion, but as of know, Shaman are the main reason Horde is so far back behind the alliance in both PvE and PvP.

Disagree, mostly.

The alliance is ahead in PvE, yes. Not because of paladins though, because of numbers. Due to their large numbers, they have a large number of guilds. If one isn't a perfect fit, you can apply to others until you find one which is. Hordeside, the options tend to be far more limited, with guilds thrown together by circumstance rather than choice. When half your guild is casual and thinks raiding is too hard, and the other half wants to push ahead and into new content, things aren't looking up. And you can't split, because there are no other freaking guilds to absorb people. My server has one horde guild doing aq40+ content. We have only two in BWL, my own and an Aussie guild which raids in the morning hours for myself and most of my guild, so isn't an option anyway.

As for healing though, shamans aren't quite up there with priests and druids, but they're hardly weak healers. It's more about the gear and mentality than the class' ability; priests level up pretty much knowing what their role will be in raiding, and spend dkp on healing gear. Many shamans level up thinking they'll do their leet windfury dps on raid bosses though, and spend their dkp on gear designed for hunters...

A nice bonus for the class is actually our weak restoration talent tree; it sucks so much, we can heal very well in raids without it, enabling raiding shamans to be specced for PvP. We can have our cake and eat it too. +healing / int / mana/5 gear is the order of the day, not resto spec or a "healing" class.

The alliance is ahead in PvP because... wait a minute, they're not :p Never have been ^_^ Dunno where you got this from, the horde owns in PvP. I'd put enhancement shamans at the #2 spot in PvP power right behind warlocks - but elemental shamans (the rarer of the two specs) are definitely #1; we worry about nothing other than soul link warlocks.

Overall I'm very happy with the shaman class as it currently stands. Unfortunately the expansion is looking like a nerf-fest for us. With warlocks looking as strong as ever, I might be rerolling.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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First off, I'm loving the amount of WoW threads. Keep posting 'em! :D

Okay, now onto the topic:

Enhancement is something you "grow up" with as a Shaman, mainly because you can be that spec, not have great gear, and still do decently, which is not the case with elemental. Elemental can be very very powerful, but only with the gear. This is the same with the warrior's fury build, it can also be insanely powerful, but you won't see this without the proper gear (lots of +str/AP and +hit). You will want to spec a little bit into resto if you want to PVP. I don't think I've seen a single decent PVP shaman without Nature's Swiftness as this is great in helping yourself or a teammate out of a pinch.

You'll want to use a nice hefty 2H, probably your best bet is to just farm AV rep and get a TUF (The Unstoppable Force) as it's a fairly easily attainable weapon and decent for DPS. Also, since shamans lack a specialization for specific weapon types, 2-H Maces are much nicer for them than warriors (Mace spec is just garbage :p).

Also, I'd like to correct a previous poster. Not all instant attacks need slow weapons. The only case where you need a slower (i.e. higher damage range) weapon is when it is based off of your "weapon damage" as Blizzard calls it. The one attack that doesn't rely on weapon damage and is instant that comes to mind is Bloodthirst. Most other attacks do rely on weapon damage to define their damage range, but not all.

I don't think Shamans hold Horde back in PVE or PVP at all. On Lightning's Blade, the guild furthest along for us is Horde. The top PVE guilds that I've seen are mostly Horde; albeit there are some Alliance (such as Risen). In fact, I'll say that Alliance may have Paladins to help or Dwarven Priest with Fear Ward, but we get the worst thing in WoW: little kiddies playing pretty Alliance characters. Although playing both Horde and Alliance on the same server, I know that there you get the same on both sides, these horrible players seem to never get anywhere with the Horde, but on the Alliance you hear of them messing with people and guilds constantly.

What truly holds people back in PVE and PVP: people.