YASP "yet another silly poll"

oldman420

Platinum Member
May 22, 2004
2,179
0
0
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

After some thorough analysys I have some questions as well as some observations to ask and make.

1,In the fourth amendment of the Constitution, what is the meaning of "upon probable cause"?
2, Would probable cause be defined as oath or afirmation?

3,What did the founders mean by oath or afirmation?

4, What did the founders mean by secure?

I am fairly sure that Tom Jefferson would not be happy with the current state of affairs, he would see a populace disconnected from their government, and a government that is willing to take advantage of that fact injstead of attempting to re-invigorate the populace through education and involvment.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,960
278
126
One more poll question:

Do you support spell check on pollsters?

[ ]yes
[ ] no

:)
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
does the united states have the resources to fight a two front war?

I voted yes, but I sure don't think we should. I mean, in the same regard, I have the capabilty of setting my apartment on fire, but I sure as heck aint gonna do it. :D

would you support an increased police presence in public venues and transit hubs as a way to combat terrorism?

Can't they do that ( :roll: ), and combat crime as well? If so, then yes.
 

newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
484
0
0
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..."
AFAIK:
1. Probable cause means you have evidence or testimony that would lead a "reasonable person" to believe that a law had been broken and that specific evidence, to be described in the warrant, could be found inside. Reasonable persons need not always agree for this standard to be met. (Perhaps bradruth has a more detailed explanation.)

2. Probable cause is an alleged event which supports suscpicion of guilt. The veracity of the "probable cause" must be verified by oath or affirmation. "I heard the butler did it with the candlestick in the toolshed." would be hearsay, not admissable, and not enough to get a warrant. By contrast: "I, the undersigned, do confirm that I saw the butler do it with the candlestick in the toolshed." would meet the standard.

3. An oath or affirmation is sworn/signed personally identifieable testimony that the evidence used as probable cause is true, under penalty of perjury.

4. Secure: "secure against unreasonable searches and seizures" means that the government does not have the right to search or seize you, your home, your papers, or your effects. They may search if they have presented evidence to a judge and acquired a warrant. The government cannot change this standard without a constitutional amendment.

If they have probable cause and reasonable belief that evidence may be destroyed or people harmed if they wait to get the warrant, then they may get the warrant after the search, but if their "probable cause" doesn't meet the judges standards then anything they find in such a search cannot be used as evidence.

Additional important issues not addressed by poll: Election tampering, electronic vote miscounting (valusia error etc.), the expansive use of prisons as a means of disenfranchising specific demographics, the excessive power of the prison industry in the political process, drug law reform, hemp law reform, energy policy, and how much money is wasted by the US country in its counterproductive and decietful "drug war".
 

makken

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2004
1,476
0
76
made 2 mistakes in voting:
1) Would you support unwarranted surveillance of you email and telephone conversations in order to combat terrorism?
meant to vote 'NO'

2) in the event of a two front war would you support the draft being reinstated?
meant to vote 'NO'

i hate how everything resets after you hit vote =\
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
* No across the board.

* Past activities for a Justice.

* Constitutional issues are our main problem.

Economy? Is the Federal Reserve Bank constitutional? The IRS? Yes, I'm avoiding the education aspect.

Domestic surveillance is obviously not kosher. Oh, wait, the Bill o' Rights...

Crime? Education, here, and the powers in our nation creating criminals.

Drugs? See 'Crime'.

Unemployment? Well, if people would get turned down for loans every now and again...

Middle East? Too late for them.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Our government is getting bigger and bigger and we are at fault. We haven't complained loudly enough to our congressmen or maybe we want our goodies handed down to us. Whatever the case, you know things are bad when the government is wiretapping Americans.

These wars are all political. They are all designed to make the government bigger. Its a cover. The real war on terror should start here and then move over there. We need a person like Thomas Jefferson or George Washington in office. A person who puts America before his party or before his own self interests.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: raildogg
Our government is getting bigger and bigger and we are at fault. We haven't complained loudly enough to our congressmen or maybe we want our goodies handed down to us. Whatever the case, you know things are bad when the government is wiretapping Americans.

These wars are all political. They are all designed to make the government bigger. Its a cover. The real war on terror should start here and then move over there. We need a person like Thomas Jefferson or George Washington in office. A person who puts America before his party or before his own self interests.
As long as the offices pay salaries, that won't happen. Voters are suckers (that our two main parties still exist is proof of that, IMO).
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: raildogg
Our government is getting bigger and bigger and we are at fault. We haven't complained loudly enough to our congressmen or maybe we want our goodies handed down to us. Whatever the case, you know things are bad when the government is wiretapping Americans.

These wars are all political. They are all designed to make the government bigger. Its a cover. The real war on terror should start here and then move over there. We need a person like Thomas Jefferson or George Washington in office. A person who puts America before his party or before his own self interests.
As long as the offices pay salaries, that won't happen. Voters are suckers (that our two main parties still exist is proof of that, IMO).

Most voters are ignorant and don't care for politics. They vote one way or another based on party affiliation. That is true for other countries as well, but since they are more choices than we do and their governments can be kicked our quicker, they're in better shape. Our two party system is slowing destroying this country.

Again, government is getting bigger and bigger and it will lead to something dreadful.
 

oldman420

Platinum Member
May 22, 2004
2,179
0
0
Don't forget that We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

it all started with the people it our fault for allowing this to happen, I think we have lost sight of our founding principals as a society, but there is a movement coming along.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
0
0
Not that I am trying to make excuses for our current leaders, but it's important to remember that the issues that face us today were not the issues that faced the founding fathers. Their pure brilliance was to realize that this would be the case and provide a way for the Constitution and other laws of the land to be changed to compensate for different issues that would one day face our country. Again, I don't agree with all the changes and new laws that have gone into effect since the war in the Middle East, but our leaders need our support and our help. I didn't vote for Bush, and I don't agree with a great many things that he is doing, but he is our President. If we don't approve of what's going on, we need to let him know. If he is unwilling to listen to the voice of those he claims to lead/represent, then he needs to be removed. Same goes for all of our leaders.

I agree with raildogg, we need to find someone who can put America first, and not their party or their own self-interest. Until then though, as Americans, I think we owe the President our support. After all, united we stand, divided we fall. JMO.