YART : Did Jesus preach Judaism ?

[polm]

Jesus was Jewish.

He lived a Jewish life-style in accordance with the laws of the Torah (Old Testament).

He said that he did not come to change any of the laws.


Why don't christians follow the same Judaic laws that Jesus did ?

 

[Crusty]

 

[bleeb]

He didn't change any of their laws, he just got the interpretations right.

 

[amcdonald]

He made it so people don't have to follow the old testament laws anymore.

 

[Legendary]

Originally posted by: bleeb
He didn't change any of their laws, he just got the interpretations right.

Let the flamefest commence.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: bleeb
He didn't change any of their laws, he just got the interpretations right.

what about the basic rules of Kashrut ? (keeping Kosher).

Some of those are pretty direct in the Bible. Not much room for interperetation.

 

[Amorphus]

We do, but he changed the means to salvation, and abolished the ecclesiastical consequences of sins. It doesn't mean that said sins were now alright.

Christian morality draws largely from the Old testament, except for where Jesus explicitly changed things.

I.e. in OT Judaism, sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Jesus was the sacrifice, thus negating the need for sacrifices - all we have to do is accept Jesus as savior.

*edit*
on the issue of kosher and such
Jesus did say (I'm trying to find the verse ATM) that what you eat is of no consequence - what matters is what comes out of your mouth, not what goes in.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
He made it so people don't have to follow the old testament laws anymore.

How ?

He followed them...why is it good enough for him and every other Jew, but not for his followers ?

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
We do, but he changed the means to salvation, and abolished the ecclesiastical consequences of sins. It doesn't mean that said sins were now alright.

Christian morality draws largely from the Old testament, except for where Jesus explicitly changed things.

I.e. in OT Judaism, sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Jesus was the sacrifice, thus negating the need for sacrifices - all we have to do is accept Jesus as savior.

again...what about the laws of Kashrut ?

 

[crt1530]

He preached Judaism as interpreted by Jesus. When Jesus saved Mary Magdalen, according to Jewish law, he should have stoned her. Not everything Jesus preached meshed with Judaism.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
Christian morality draws largely from the Old testament, except for where Jesus explicitly changed things.

what exactly did he change ? (besides the sacrificial laws...which Jews dont follow anymore because there is no temple)

 

[Electric Amish]

I don't know. I wasn't around then.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: crt1530
He preached Judaism as interpreted by Jesus. When Jesus saved Mary Magdalen, according to Jewish law, he should have stoned her. Not everything Jesus preached meshed with Judaism.

But...am I to assume that those laws that were not CHANGED by Jesus are still to be followed by Christians ?

 

[mandala]

Matthew 5:18 (during Jesus' sermon on the mount) says: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". So, Christians believe that He fulfilled the old (Mosaic) law and brought a new law/testament.

 

[Metalloid]

Hebrews 8:10-13

10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Jesus did make the OT law obsolete, and he said that he will put the new law on the people's hearts and minds. He said that he is the only way to heaven, because he died for us.

Also, the Jews did not believe that Jesus was really God.

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Amorphus
We do, but he changed the means to salvation, and abolished the ecclesiastical consequences of sins. It doesn't mean that said sins were now alright.

Christian morality draws largely from the Old testament, except for where Jesus explicitly changed things.

I.e. in OT Judaism, sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Jesus was the sacrifice, thus negating the need for sacrifices - all we have to do is accept Jesus as savior.

again...what about the laws of Kashrut ?

Found it!

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: crt1530
He preached Judaism as interpreted by Jesus. When Jesus saved Mary Magdalen, according to Jewish law, he should have stoned her. Not everything Jesus preached meshed with Judaism.

But...am I to assume that those laws that were not CHANGED by Jesus are still to be followed by Christians ?

Yes. At least, to the best of my knowledge. They are rules set forth by God, after all. When the means for salvation changed, so did other things, but not all.

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: amcdonald
He made it so people don't have to follow the old testament laws anymore.

How ?

He followed them...why is it good enough for him and every other Jew, but not for his followers ?

There were times when he broke the laws of the sabbath to make an example.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: polm
Jesus was Jewish.

He lived a Jewish life-style in accordance with the laws of the Torah (Old Testament).

He said that he did not come to change any of the laws.


Why don't christians follow the same Judaic laws that Jesus did ?

I've been saying this for quite some time now. Glad to see I'm not the only one that noticed these things
Christians don't follow the Mosaic Law because they have been mislead by the church and its leaders.
That's just my take on things, of course.

 

[Electric Amish]

Also, the Jews did not believe that Jesus was really God.

He wasn't... He was (allegedly) God's son.

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: Metalloid
Hebrews 8:10-13

10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Jesus did make the OT law obsolete, and he said that he will put the new law on the people's hearts and minds. He said that he is the only way to heaven, because he died for us.

Also, the Jews did not believe that Jesus was really God.

Neener neener

But no, the Jews (by religion) did not, and do not, believe that Y'shua (Jesus) is their promised Messiah (regardless that he fulfills all of over 400 prophecies concerning the Messiah...). No joke. Didn't miss a single one.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Yay flame war!

 

[Amorphus]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Also, the Jews did not believe that Jesus was really God.

He wasn't... He was (allegedly) God's son.

Wrong *edit* Well, technically correct, but the refuting of "Jesus is God" was wrong.

Read the last sentence, notably. He states, explicitly, that He is God, just as his father. Thus the Trinity Christians are always talking about.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Amorphus
We do, but he changed the means to salvation, and abolished the ecclesiastical consequences of sins. It doesn't mean that said sins were now alright.

Christian morality draws largely from the Old testament, except for where Jesus explicitly changed things.

I.e. in OT Judaism, sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Jesus was the sacrifice, thus negating the need for sacrifices - all we have to do is accept Jesus as savior.

*edit*
on the issue of kosher and such
Jesus did say (I'm trying to find the verse ATM) that what you eat is of no consequence - what matters is what comes out of your mouth, not what goes in.

You're right on one thing (that being that Jesus is the sin sacrifice) but I disagree with your interpretation that the laws were done away with. I must, once again, refer to Matthew 5:17-18 "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
RE: keeping kosher and your "quote": one has to take that quote in context to truly understand it. Jesus was simply saying that man should be more concerned with what fruit he bears, than what fruit he eats. This ties into the parable of cutting off one's hand if it causes him to sin.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Metalloid
Hebrews 8:10-13

10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Jesus did make the OT law obsolete, and he said that he will put the new law on the people's hearts and minds. He said that he is the only way to heaven, because he died for us.

Also, the Jews did not believe that Jesus was really God.

Nice try, but you misinterpret the term "covenant". A covenant is nothing more than an agreement between man and G-d.
What, then, is the Old Covenant?
The Old Covenant is the agreement between man and G-d that man shall follow the Mosaic Law to receive salvation.
What, then, is the New Covenant?
The New Covenant is the agreement between man and G-d that man shall accept Yeshua as the sin sacrifice to wash away all sins.
The New Covenant does not do away with the Mosaic Law, it simply provides man the only means to salvation.
G-d's original plan for man was to live in the Garden of Eden free of sin. Once man began to sin, G-d needed to offer man a means to atone for his sins. That means was the Mosaic Law. Man tried out the Law for a couple thousand years and G-d saw that man simply could not follow the Law perfectly, as He intended. Therefore, G-d had to provide a means to salvation which did not depend on the perfection of man, but rather on the perfection of G-d and His perfect son Yeshua.

The end.

 

[mandala]

So, you can interpret Matthew 5:18 as meaning that the law would only only pass away once it was fulfilled (nothing will take away from the law until it is completely fulfilled), which Christians believe Jesus did.