YARSRT: Yet Another Racial School Related Thread

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: classy
No where in that article does it state that admission is based solely on a test. No where in that article does it state the tests were too hard for "certain people". As a matter of fact the article states the exact opposite. It even quotes the school board as stating the data presented was very good. So if it was just based intelligence why would the school board say the data presented was disturbing? There is only one reason for a comment like that, the scores of some of the minority students warranted them being accepted and they weren't. Now thats me reading between the lines and speculating. But if it was just passing a test then there would no need for the school board comments. Further the schools were urged to model the program to reflect the student population. Which clearly puts forth the notion that this is not just based on scores of a test.

well, i read the article again, recommendation letters from middle school teachers are also "considered." maybe that's the breaking point, who knows... can't really argue this anymore since i dont know the whole testing process.

 

[91TTZ]

This is a common trend throughout the country.

In programs or fields that require strong problem solving and reasoning skills, the breakdown of the participants that pass those tests strongly mirror the IQ scores for their demographic groups.

It's not a white conspiracy to keep everyone else out, because Asians have a higher admittance rate than whites. I think this data shows causation- that programs like this simply mirror the average intelligence levels of the groups participating.

Look at the results for extremely cognitive tests/fields, such as:

IQ tests
SAT scores
Employees at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Doctors

The breakdown of those who pass these hard tests will not mirror the demographic breakdown of the general population. This is because not every group has the same intelligence quotient. It's a very popular "PC" thing to think, but the statistics do not agree with this, and they don't lie.

The best way to sample a large group to find out capabilities/limitations is to test them. Math sees no color. The math/logic test questions themselves aren't racist. Be prepared to accept the results in a scientific manner, and don't try to claim that a math test was racist just because you don't agree with the outcome. Don't run the results through the court of popular opinion because people may not be willing to accept the truth and will demand different results. Unfortunately the world does not work that way- you devise a fair test that you know will produce an accurate result, and accept the results. You don't devise the result first, and then try to formulate a test that produces those results (like making a test that shows that smoking is good for you). That's just junk science.

If a test uncovers differences between races, this does not mean that the test (or those who wrote it) is racist. It just means that it produced accurate results and the results weren't what people were expecting or weren't willing to accept- it reared a common truth, but a truth that is a point of contention- that through evolution, different groups have different capabilities in different areas. It doesn't mean that one group is "better", just "different".

The result may not be what you were expecting, and it may not be "politically correct" according to modern social norms. But it is the truth nonetheless.

 

[GRIFFIN1]

The magnet schools here in Shreveport, LA have been in the news lately. For about 20 years, the school supposed to be 50% white and 50% black within a range of +-15%. This ment that every year, the school was 65% white and 35% black.

All the students have to take a test to see if they can get into the school. One year, a white parent found out that her son scored a 140 on the test and didn't make it into the 6th grade magnet school. Black students scoring as low as 117 were allowed in so the school could get it's 35%. The parent of the white student took the school to court and finally won after something like 3 years.

If they start to only use test scores, then I bet the school is going to be over 90% white. It will not take long before they are back in court to reinstate the quota system or they will just close down the magnet schools.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: GRIFFIN1
The magnet schools here in Shreveport, LA have been in the news lately. For about 20 years, the school supposed to be 50% white and 50% black within a range of +-15%. This ment that every year, the school was 65% white and 35% black.

All the students have to take a test to see if they can get into the school. One year, a white parent found out that her son scored a 140 on the test and didn't make it into the 6th grade magnet school. Black students scoring as low as 117 were allowed in so the school could get it's 35%. The parent of the white student took the school to court and finally won after something like 3 years.

If they start to only use test scores, then I bet the school is going to be over 90% white. It will not take long before they are back in court to reinstate the quota system or they will just close down the magnet schools.

Yea ok :roll:

 

[classy]

What state is this in?

 

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: classy
What state is this in?

Originally posted by: GRIFFIN1
The magnet schools here in Shreveport, LA have been in the news lately. For about 20 years, the school supposed to be 50% white and 50% black within a range of +-15%. This ment that every year, the school was 65% white and 35% black.

All the students have to take a test to see if they can get into the school. One year, a white parent found out that her son scored a 140 on the test and didn't make it into the 6th grade magnet school. Black students scoring as low as 117 were allowed in so the school could get it's 35%. The parent of the white student took the school to court and finally won after something like 3 years.

If they start to only use test scores, then I bet the school is going to be over 90% white. It will not take long before they are back in court to reinstate the quota system or they will just close down the magnet schools.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: vood0g

Originally posted by: classy
What state is this in?

Originally posted by: GRIFFIN1
The magnet schools here in Shreveport, LA have been in the news lately. For about 20 years, the school supposed to be 50% white and 50% black within a range of +-15%. This ment that every year, the school was 65% white and 35% black.

All the students have to take a test to see if they can get into the school. One year, a white parent found out that her son scored a 140 on the test and didn't make it into the 6th grade magnet school. Black students scoring as low as 117 were allowed in so the school could get it's 35%. The parent of the white student took the school to court and finally won after something like 3 years.

If they start to only use test scores, then I bet the school is going to be over 90% white. It will not take long before they are back in court to reinstate the quota system or they will just close down the magnet schools.

OOPs But wait is this the state the original article was written for?

 

[alexeikgb]

Originally the article is for Maryland schools.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: alexeikgb
Originally the article is for Maryland schools.

Cool, maybe I'll try some google to find out more about the program.

 

[speed01]

What are the selection criteria?

Selection is based on a student's achievement record in mathematics, science, and English, demonstrated interest in mathematics, science, and computer science, teacher recommendations, and the student's ability to think critically and reason logically. Applicants take a series of mathematical and verbal aptitude, achievement, and critical thinking tests in January. More information about the tests can be found here. Applicants can also download a booklet about preparing for the tests.

From the MCPS Magnet School program application.

Speed

 

[speed01]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: alexeikgb
Originally the article is for Maryland schools.

Cool, maybe I'll try some google to find out more about the program.

Here is a good place to start..

Speed

 

[91TTZ]

Average SAT scores in 2003

Black: 860
White: 1,058
Asian: 1,072
Ashkenazi (ethnic Jewish)- 1160

This isn't really surprising, it just mirrors what people have known for years. My race/ethnic group is not on the top, it's not even second. But I'm not afraid to admit it. These are just averages. Individuals can deviate from the norm, and you could be one of them. But when parents complain based on the averages that they're seeing, their anger is misguided.

For any demanding test or occupation the average usually work out this way, also. Look at the world's best physicists and you'll find the same thing, with ethnic Jewish people (from Easter Europe) consistently scoring far beyond everyone else. Eistein, Teller, Oppenheimer, etc, belong to this group. Look at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Many Asians there, in fact it was co-founded by an Asian man.

The IQ/SAT/ACT/Gifted program admission/JPL requirements/BAR exam tests aren't creating the controversial results, they are merely reporting it.

 

[lukatmyshu]

Myself and my cousins went to two magnet schools (different ones, although both in the Greater LA area). Probably about half white/half asian in my school ... my cousin's school was 70% asian I believe. The test scores don't like ... if african americans as a group are not performing well on the tests it means that other racial groups are doing a better job preparing their children for the test. I completely disagree with the notion that a certain ethnic group has a lower intelligence potential than another ... taking a large sampling of each ethnic group and subject them all to the same child-rearing tactics and I am sure that they would have equivalent distributions.
Look at how hard most asian parents push their kids ... if your kids as a racial group are not doing well in school ... then as a group your community needs to figure out a way to ensure that their kids are starting to learn at a much younger age. As someone whose mother constantly played word-games, read to me, and the like (from a very early age), the importance of early education is definitely seen.

Classy: I think that the school board found the data 'disturbing' because there was a huge disparity in the numbers (meaning you would hope that each group would demographically be represented within the school). As an individual who has taken and passed the magnet test ... they were hard (as a 8th grader) but they were fair. Aside from the voluntary box indicating your ethnic group ... no one knew who I was. How could they discrimate based on race if they dont know your race (you can always leave the box unchecked. I did because I wasn't sure where Indian went at the time )

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: lukatmyshu
I completely disagree with the notion that a certain ethnic group has a lower intelligence potential than another ... taking a large sampling of each ethnic group and subject them all to the same child-rearing tactics and I am sure that they would have equivalent distributions.

Statistical data gathered over the last century disagrees with this though. If your sample base is only a few individuals, or a small group, or even a town, I can see the data being skewed. But when you compare a sample pool that is nation and country wide, the averages will tend to be pretty close to reality.

Again, these are only averages. This doesn't stop an individual from that group from being a deviation from the norm. It only means that the deviation cannot be the norm.

And always remember that seeing differences in tests is no reason to hate or look down on someone else. You might have an advantage over them at one task, but they may have the advantage over you at something else. If everyone was the same, the world would be a bland place. We're all specialized for different things, and more progress can be made that way than if we all had the same boring capabilities. We should focus on helping people out doing what we do best.

 

[Brutuskend]

How about, well I don't know, HELPING YOUR KIDS LEARN BY TEACHING THEM A FEW THINGS AT HOME! :roll:

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
How about, well I don't know, HELPING YOUR KIDS LEARN BY TEACHING THEM A FEW THINGS AT HOME! :roll:

heh tell em bout it. i was in disgrace as i heard this on the radio this morning on the way to work. it was one of the news headlines on the little 2 minute news clip that the guy talks abouut on WPGC between like 8:58 - 9:00.

WPGC if you didn't know is a station that is prodominantly for black entertainment, as it is mainly hip hop, rap, reggae, and r&b music.

 

[thirdlegstump]

I'm not a racist or anything but if you're stupid, you're stupid and shouldn't be unfairly inserted into a school of higher educational level.

 

[glenn beck]

what's with the small percentage of Asians 14%, that's the real racism there...