Yard grading/water issues

Jeraden

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,518
1
76
Have a long time issue with my back yard and wondering if anyone might have any advice.

So I'm having some wall issues in my basement and it all boils down to the area in front of the back wall in my back yard. From reading online, you don't want your soil to be above your foundation walls, ideally several inches to a foot below where the brick starts. Unfortunately, the soil in my back yard is a good 1.5 courses up the brick. And on top of that, there is actually a slight slope towards the house, though only slightly. I know ideally I'd grade that area away from the house. And since I'm already 1.5 courses up the brick (that way since I bought the house), building the dirt up higher isn't an option. Unfortunately, removing 2 courses worth of dirt to get it to the proper height against the house and then additionally removing dirt from the back yard to create a slope away also isn't really all that achievable. That's just too much to remove. I already have a low spot in the yard about 15 feet from the wall which has a french drain installed. But it basically gradually goes upwards for about 10 feet, then starts going down the next 5 feet. So having 2 low spots would just be weird in such a short area.

So I'm kind of at a loss on what to do. I was hoping there was some kind of product I could place against the outside brick that would allow me to safely put dirt against it, but I can't find any such item. I don't know if using some brick/drylock/etc water sealant on the outside brick would work so that I can place dirt against it?

I do have gutters and all, so at least rain isn't gathering/pooling against the house, but it's causing soil expansion issues since that area always stays damp.

Any ideas other than paying thousands of dollars to have a ton of dirt removed to create a slope away from the house?
 

JimKiler

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2002
3,561
206
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As i live in the US I am not sure what a course is (i tried looking it up but too generic) but i understand what you are saying.

There is a product you can put on your concrete to waterproof it. However unless you do the whole wall there is a good chance it will not work. My basement was sealed when it was built 5 years ago and we have had very small leaks in the corner of our completely underground basement. The builder had the inside sealed where it was and it still leaked because our slope away from our house was flat or sloped in on the side where the leak occurred. The builder explained how the water can be a few feet away to the side but if the water finds a spot to get in, it will.

We had to fix out slopes which disappeared or sloped toward our house. We resloped it with dirt then laid plastic down and put rock on top so now the dirt below the rock should not even get wet. You really need to get a slope away from your house, everything else is just a band aid.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
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221
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If you feel the problem is the amount of water coming off the roof, you could connect your downspouts to drains that take the water well away from the house. That would allow the yard (by the house) to only need to absorb the natural rainfall and not the additional water from the roof runoff.
It does require digging and sloping the drains to lower lying areas (or perc pipes and popups), so it could be a toss-up compared to regrading.
 
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Gardener

Senior member
Nov 22, 1999
767
549
136
Fix it right, fix it once. Remove the excess soil, and regrade around the perimeter of the house.
 
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Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
You can rent a cat and make short work of regrading your yard.
Old thread I know, but how does someone learn about how to go about doing this kind of thing efficiently and correctly? I have next to zero knowledge of how to do nearly anything landscaping-wise beyond mowing a lawn and digging a hole. I've put in a small cement walkway and used a small rented backhoe for a day or two, and I've got 10-15 minutes in a skid steer. That's about it.

I know there are attachments that can go on a skid steer, and that using one of those things with skill can take a fair bit of practice.

Where I'm at for anything at this point is "I have to hire someone to do this because I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't know where to go to learn." There are lots of things on Youtube sure, but they're mostly short overviews, there are many opinions on how to do a thing, and I have no good way to verify the skill level of the publisher.

I've got roughly 1/10 acre of back yard (60x70 feet) that could still use some regrading to slope it away from the house.
Future plans may include turning the back yard into something more like this with a border of grass, though I say that with very little idea as to what it would cost.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
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Old thread I know, but how does someone learn about how to go about doing this kind of thing efficiently and correctly? I have next to zero knowledge of how to do nearly anything landscaping-wise beyond mowing a lawn and digging a hole. I've put in a small cement walkway and used a small rented backhoe for a day or two, and I've got 10-15 minutes in a skid steer. That's about it.

I know there are attachments that can go on a skid steer, and that using one of those things with skill can take a fair bit of practice.

Where I'm at for anything at this point is "I have to hire someone to do this because I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't know where to go to learn." There are lots of things on Youtube sure, but they're mostly short overviews, there are many opinions on how to do a thing, and I have no good way to verify the skill level of the publisher.

I've got roughly 1/10 acre of back yard (60x70 feet) that could still use some regrading to slope it away from the house.
Future plans may include turning the back yard into something more like this with a border of grass, though I say that with very little idea as to what it would cost.
The idea is to first get utilities marked before doing any digging. For grading you need a minimum of two stakes, enough string to link them and, a line level. The rule of thumb I use is 1/4" per foot or, 1" every 4 feet. For example, if you level the line at 10 inches above the ground at the side of the house and your yard extends 40 feet, the level of the ground should be 20" below the string at the far end. The secret to using a cat, backhoe, trencher etc. is not to bite off more than you can chew. In other words, skim an inch or two at a time. You'll soon get a feeling for the capabilities of the machine. You want to plan for where you want the water to go as opposed to just dumping it in the neighbors yard or, undercutting a ridge left by the grading.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
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One word of caution, check local codes before regrading.
Where I live and in many other places, you are required to contain all runoff on your own property. In other words when it rains, all the water that falls on your property must stay there, you can't shed it or let it flow onto the neighbors land (as Magnus mentioned), public lands or streets.
My assumption is that this is to prevent flooding and/or pollution and probably doesn't exist in many places.
But just check to make sure, it could save you a lot of time and money redoing things a second time ;)
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
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In other words, skim an inch or two at a time.
Honestly no offense intended, but I've run heavy equipment for 40+ years and I just couldn't stop laughing when I read that, imagining a rookie/newbie on a rented/borrowed machine trying that.

Jeff7-
Again no offense intended, but if you really want to learn how, many of the "heavy equipment" schools now have weekend classes designed for homeowners. They aren't necessarily cheap, but you don't have to rent the equipment, pay to transport the equipment, you aren't responsible for minor damage, you are in a relatively controlled environment where you can't hurt yourself or others or damage property, and all the others taking the class will be more or less of your aptitude/skill level so you won't look so bad in front of the wife or neighbors. :D
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
One word of caution, check local codes before regrading.
Where I live and in many other places, you are required to contain all runoff on your own property. In other words when it rains, all the water that falls on your property must stay there, you can't shed it or let it flow onto the neighbors land (as Magnus mentioned), public lands or streets.
My assumption is that this is to prevent flooding and/or pollution and probably doesn't exist in many places.
But just check to make sure, it could save you a lot of time and money redoing things a second time ;)
I've been spending a fair bit of time doing some really thrilling reading....going over city codes.
Runoff: Well, when I moved in, there are lines piping from the roof and from the back yard out onto the street to go into the storm drains, so....there's that. Hopefully all of that work was done on-the-level, but who knows. And of course I wouldn't want to have anything just dumping into a neighbor's yard. I'm very likely just going to have a landscaper do this one, but I still like to explore options.



Honestly no offense intended, but I've run heavy equipment for 40+ years and I just couldn't stop laughing when I read that, imagining a rookie/newbie on a rented/borrowed machine trying that.
No worries. :)
They had a skid steer at work and I had a very brief shot at running it. It was tricky to get a feel for what the bucket's doing to the ground when you can't see the front of the thing. Is it just brushing the dirt and doing nothing, or is it jamming into the ground with every bump? No good way to tell.
I've also had some time on a small Kubota thing with a front-loader, I think it was one in their BX series, basically a nicely-accessorized lawn tractor. That was pretty easy to use.


Jeff7-
Again no offense intended, but if you really want to learn how, many of the "heavy equipment" schools now have weekend classes designed for homeowners. They aren't necessarily cheap, but you don't have to rent the equipment, pay to transport the equipment, you aren't responsible for minor damage, you are in a relatively controlled environment where you can't hurt yourself or others or damage property, and all the others taking the class will be more or less of your aptitude/skill level so you won't look so bad in front of the wife or neighbors. :D
I just had a look online....there actually is a place in town that offers training for equipment, including backhoe/front-loaders and skid steers. Nothing on the website about prices of course. They're talking OSHA this-and-that, and payback times for a 2-day course, so they're targeting businesses.

Most of what I'd be concerned with is rookie mistakes, or yes, code violations, which is what steers me towards hiring someone. But, I don't know either what it takes to acquire at least a basic proficiency, if I'm only doing this for myself and not while on the clock for an employer.
And then I also have part of my mind nagging at me about the other projects I want to do: "But doing it by hand is good exercise, and you need it!" ;)
 

JimKiler

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2002
3,561
206
106
One word of caution, check local codes before regrading.
Where I live and in many other places, you are required to contain all runoff on your own property. In other words when it rains, all the water that falls on your property must stay there, you can't shed it or let it flow onto the neighbors land (as Magnus mentioned), public lands or streets.
My assumption is that this is to prevent flooding and/or pollution and probably doesn't exist in many places.
But just check to make sure, it could save you a lot of time and money redoing things a second time ;)

In my development all the lots slope out and therefore it is shedding off our land but since the neighbors do as well it flows back to the sewer drain on the backyard. But this is how the system is designed to prevent flooding of the houses.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
106
Jeff7 - As to running a machine, book learning for theory, but actual use and experience (along with some inherent skill) is the only way to become reasonably proficient. Hey, I know some 20 year operators that are still not as good as some 2nd years. YMMV, that's why I recommended a class, it will give you proper instruction as well as a chance to find out if DIY is practical for you.

A couple warnings, if you intend to do a major portion of your property or a very noticeable part of your property -
1) Absolutely do check code requirements. Code's can change and what was required when your house was built or when it was bought, may not be what is required now. In that case, generally as long as you don't make any big changes, you're fine, but if you make big changes, you may have to meet current codes, possibly requiring expensive changes, so it's better to find out first.
And what is considered "big" is determined by the permitting agency.
2) Hire a licensed contractor, he will be more likely to know and do the job to meet code requirements (if there are any) IME.
3) Check to see if a permit is needed (for landscaping this varies a lot). As the homeowner YOU are held responsible by the governing authority to see this happens (if required) in almost all jurisdictions.
4) It may sound intimidating, but most of the above can be done with simple phone calls and isn't as hard as it sounds, so don't skip it :D:D It could save you a bunch of money.
5) If you are doing a major portion of your yard and the grass is nice, ask your contractor for both a price to bring in new sod and a price to bring in a sod cutter and save your existing sod. It all depends where you live, as to what will be cheaper.

Some jurisdictions are, shall we say, money grubbing, and require a permit for virtually anything (since in most cases the permit requirement is for anything that changes the value of the property - up or down). I know one home owner here that was nicked for painting his front door, but he had done other things in the past also. Enforcement is not always uniform.
The tax assessor will note the changes and report them to the permitting authority the next time the property is assessed.
As will bad neighbors. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps you :cool:


JimKiler - Just FYI, 99.99% that's a storm water drain, not sewer, and probably goes to a retention/percolation pond area close by.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Honestly no offense intended, but I've run heavy equipment for 40+ years and I just couldn't stop laughing when I read that, imagining a rookie/newbie on a rented/borrowed machine trying that.

Jeff7-
Again no offense intended, but if you really want to learn how, many of the "heavy equipment" schools now have weekend classes designed for homeowners. They aren't necessarily cheap, but you don't have to rent the equipment, pay to transport the equipment, you aren't responsible for minor damage, you are in a relatively controlled environment where you can't hurt yourself or others or damage property, and all the others taking the class will be more or less of your aptitude/skill level so you won't look so bad in front of the wife or neighbors. :D
I don't consider a small skid steer with a blade heavy equipment. I can see calling it a 'cat' may have misled you.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
106
I don't consider a small skid steer with a blade heavy equipment. I can see calling it a 'cat' may have misled you.
I don't consider it heavy either, but it seems all the schools do.
But I do still think it's too much to expect someone that has no or little experience to try and grade an inch or two at a time on a machine they have rented for a weekend. That's a more expensive and frustrating learning curve than spending money on a class. ;)
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
I don't consider it heavy either, but it seems all the schools do.
But I do still think it's too much to expect someone that has no or little experience to try and grade an inch or two at a time on a machine they have rented for a weekend. That's a more expensive and frustrating learning curve than spending money on a class. ;)
It seemed pretty easy to me but, I grew up in a time when familiarity with tools both small and large were commonplace. Everyone was happy to show kids how to use equipment safely and effectively.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
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It seemed pretty easy to me but, I grew up in a time when familiarity with tools both small and large were commonplace. Everyone was happy to show kids how to use equipment safely and effectively.
Me, too :D
But a BobCat is single seat with no way to school, teach or help except remotely. I've seen several upside down or on their sides.
I just try to err on the side of caution.:D
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
I don't consider a small skid steer with a blade heavy equipment. I can see calling it a 'cat' may have misled you.
I don't consider it heavy either, but it seems all the schools do.
But I do still think it's too much to expect someone that has no or little experience to try and grade an inch or two at a time on a machine they have rented for a weekend. That's a more expensive and frustrating learning curve than spending money on a class. ;)
Skid steer with a blade: I wouldn't even know what attachments are available, but I get the idea that there are many, and I know that there are some meant for grading land. That's as much as I know right now. The one I spent several minutes in had a loading bucket. (I don't think the person renting that one knew what to get either, as it was supposedly to be used to fill in dirt and grade it flat. It didn't go so well for grading.)

"Heavy equipment:" The heaviest equipment my dad owned was a basic Craftsman riding mower. The heaviest thing I own is probably a 1200W electric tiller.
Peanuts compared to anything you're looking at. :)

And yes, what I didn't want to do is rent something and spend the rental time just figuring out how to use it, and wrecking up the small patch of "practice" land I've got, whereas a skilled operator could probably do this in under 2 hours. I did take to the small backhoe pretty quickly though...I thought, anyway. Really well-made controls. I'll attribute the proficiency to a lifetime of PC gaming. Let's go with that.



Jeff7 - As to running a machine, book learning for theory, but actual use and experience (along with some inherent skill) is the only way to become reasonably proficient. Hey, I know some 20 year operators that are still not as good as some 2nd years. YMMV, that's why I recommended a class, it will give you proper instruction as well as a chance to find out if DIY is practical for you.
No argument there. Books don't give you the feel for how the thing responds to the controls, or the feel for the machine on the ground.

A couple warnings, if you intend to do a major portion of your property or a very noticeable part of your property -
1) Absolutely do check code requirements. Code's can change and what was required when your house was built or when it was bought, may not be what is required now. In that case, generally as long as you don't make any big changes, you're fine, but if you make big changes, you may have to meet current codes, possibly requiring expensive changes, so it's better to find out first.
And what is considered "big" is determined by the permitting agency.
2) Hire a licensed contractor, he will be more likely to know and do the job to meet code requirements (if there are any) IME.
3) Check to see if a permit is needed (for landscaping this varies a lot). As the homeowner YOU are held responsible by the governing authority to see this happens (if required) in almost all jurisdictions.
4) It may sound intimidating, but most of the above can be done with simple phone calls and isn't as hard as it sounds, so don't skip it :D:D It could save you a bunch of money.
5) If you are doing a major portion of your yard and the grass is nice, ask your contractor for both a price to bring in new sod and a price to bring in a sod cutter and save your existing sod. It all depends where you live, as to what will be cheaper.

Some jurisdictions are, shall we say, money grubbing, and require a permit for virtually anything (since in most cases the permit requirement is for anything that changes the value of the property - up or down). I know one home owner here that was nicked for painting his front door, but he had done other things in the past also. Enforcement is not always uniform.
The tax assessor will note the changes and report them to the permitting authority the next time the property is assessed.
As will bad neighbors. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps you :cool:
...
Yes, thank you.

I'm not in California, and there's no homeowner's association, so that probably helps. A bit. ;)
It's a smallish city, assuming it even counts as a "city" anymore since the population has been shrinking lately, so if I do need live help from a permitting department I might actually have a decent shot at getting it.

Grass: 1) I'm thinking of replacing a good portion of the lawn with something a bit rockier, with some flowerbeds and paver stones, with a border of grass.
2) The grass I've got is the thickest I've had to work on, probably owing to the constant availability of water due to the grading.



It seemed pretty easy to me but, I grew up in a time when familiarity with tools both small and large were commonplace. Everyone was happy to show kids how to use equipment safely and effectively.
I don't think I even know anyone who owns or has easy access to anything more substantial than a riding mower or ATV. I think someone at work might have a tractor?
And anyone who does would probably be worried about insurance claims or legal action in the event that anything went wrong while letting someone else learn on their equipment.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,391
1,780
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I have the same problem and can't do anything except french drain it. The problem is the surrounding grade is just too high.

If you can remove the excess soil and regrade it, you'll be better off. Otherwise, find a place to put a gravel pit and run a french drain to there. I'm going to go that route as soon as I can get the time to dig it (by hand). I have about a 30 foot trench + depth and width of the pit... Then I get to shovel gravel into it. I can't wait.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,343
221
106
The one I spent several minutes in had a loading bucket. (I don't think the person renting that one knew what to get either, as it was supposedly to be used to fill in dirt and grade it flat. It didn't go so well for grading.)
That's what is normally used for grading and as you figured out, it is an acquired skill, not something you just do. I've actually never seen a blade on skid-steer, but I know they are available. No one really uses them because they are a "one trick pony", while a flat bottom loader bucket has many uses.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,391
1,780
126
That's what is normally used for grading and as you figured out, it is an acquired skill, not something you just do. I've actually never seen a blade on skid-steer, but I know they are available. No one really uses them because they are a "one trick pony", while a flat bottom loader bucket has many uses.
Here's a hint. Most of the grading work people do with that equipment is done in reverse. They'll use a skid-steer with a forked bucket to dig or doze dirt up....then they drag the forks or flatten the buck an inch off the topsoil and drive backwards to spread the dirt.

I've done it a few times, but I do better working a mini-excavator with a blade. I feel like the weight distribution on those machines is better for grading and you can really tear into the side of a hill if you're trying to drop the grade. My yard was a hill with a high side and a low side. I was able to drop the grade about 5 feet on one end and spread that 5'X25' hill out behind me. Basically, I made the yard useable in 30 minutes and still had proper slope for drainage. Mini-excavators are great for removing fence posts too if you have a logging chain. It was proabably the best $300 I ever spent on rental equipment/delivery.


My french drain project needs to start up pretty soon. I've got to get a 55 gallon drum for a well and start digging....probably 5+ feet deep off the back corner of my house away from the foundation, gas line (3 feet down), and sewer line (4 feet down)... My biggest fear is that I'm going to hit lots of roots because it's pretty close to an oak tree I had cut down in 2012. A lot of it has rotted near the surface....and I had the stump ground back then....I just won't know how bad it is until I get 3 feet down in that area....the sewer line I ran a few years back had minimal roots, but I was also using a mini-excavator and can't use one for this project because of location. :(
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Often in the back of the house there are sewer lines. So be careful. Sometimes in an area next to the house in a heavy rain the down spouts can not handle the the water or become clogged and the water just starts to pour off the roof. If you have windows which all basements are usually required (by code) to let light in, then it may come in around the window at times and come down the wall.

If too much water builds up in the soil, the water pressure will find a way to get through. Some people use sub pumps to pump out excess water or install a french drain. If you live in an area with hard steady rainfalls, nothing will prevent all flooding.

It is best to try to get rain to flow down the downspout and out into the lower yard.