YAPLPCT: First step taken towards reversing Roe v. Wade...

imported_Tomato

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2002
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I am morally and ethically against abortion, but legally, I fully support a woman?s right to choose.

If the claim in this link is true, then it is the first in what will undoubtedly be many steps to completely reverse Roe v. Wade and take away a woman's basic right over her own body.

Several weeks ago, the Senate passed a ban on "partial birth" abortion. Now, members of the House are poised to pass this bill, and the President has vowed that he will sign it into law. The House is expected to take action on this bill the week of March 31st.

Other links on the topic:

CBS News link

Democrats for Life

Link to an ATOT thread on partial birth abortion.

Once again, I disapprove of abortion, but I will defend a woman's right to have it.
 

wnied

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I approve of abortion and womens right to choose. Having said that, I went so far as to join a local chapter of N.A.F and did clinic security work in some of my off-work hours. I believe abortion should be legal, and always be an option to someone without the means to raise children or the desire to do so. I believe the problem with the abortion system lies with those who abuse it by using abortion clinics to regularly erase pregnancies that were easily preventable with birth control and simple sexual responsibility. I also believe records should be kept of people who get abortions more than twice in a year...

...then again that too is only my opinion. But what would I know? I'm only a man.
~wnied~
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
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Roe vs. Wade was the best thing to happen for women ever.

Reversing it would put us back in the days of bathroom stall coathanger abortions...a real tragedy.

I hope the reversal fails miserably.

I support a woman's right to choose. I'm also a Republican...how ironic. :p
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: MichaelD
Roe vs. Wade was the best thing to happen for women ever.

Reversing it would put us back in the days of bathroom stall coathanger abortions...a real tragedy.

I hope the reversal fails miserably.

I support a woman's right to choose. I'm also a Republican...how ironic. :p

Wow, a point I actually don't agree with MichealD on. The problem with this argument is that even with legal abortion we still see coathanger (or more appropriately dumpster) abortions.

With partial birth abortions, I don't like the idea of government being involved in this decision, but I feel it is a tragedy that the death of child is no fault of his own.

And wnied, if you want abortions legal for convenience reasons (not able to afford it) why do you care how many a women has. if they go above 2, does it become illegal? That's kind of a contradiction to your abortion stance, isn't it.

This coming from an Agnostic Republic...not sure about the irony, though. :p
 

juiio

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2000
1,433
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Reversing Roe v Wade wouldn't outlaw abortions. It would just leave the decision up to the states.

Oh, and of course, this decision is nowhere near leading up to a reversal anyways.
 

Spac3d

Banned
Jul 3, 2001
6,651
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This is so stupid, women should have a choice.

I completely support abortion... if you created it, you should be able to destroy it.

I think parents should be able to have complete control over their kids. If you have a retarded kid, you should be able to destroy them. What type of life would they lead? A worthless one because they are useless. There lack of life skills will lead them to rely upon tax dollars just to survive:disgust:
 

KC5AV

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2002
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What that link fails to mention is that partial birth abortions account for less than 1% of all abortions performed nationwide (I believe). Partial birth abortions are performed in the last trimester (that's 24-25 weeks or further into pregnancy). The fetus is pulled from the womb, and a pair of forceps are inserted at the base of the skull. I'll let you figure out the rest.



My opinion:
If you think an abortion is a viable option when the fetus is capable of living outside the womb, you are really messed up.Illustrations.

Edit: nm, already covered by juiio.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
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Originally posted by: juiio
Reversing Roe v Wade wouldn't outlaw abortions. It would just leave the decision up to the states.

Oh, and of course, this decision is nowhere near leading up to a reversal anyways.
Precisely. There is no credible evidence to suggest that any further steps will be taken, let alone passed.

ZV
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
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Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Roe vs. Wade was the best thing to happen for women ever.

Reversing it would put us back in the days of bathroom stall coathanger abortions...a real tragedy.

I hope the reversal fails miserably.

I support a woman's right to choose. I'm also a Republican...how ironic. :p

Wow, a point I actually don't agree with MichealD on. The problem with this argument is that even with legal abortion we still see coathanger (or more appropriately dumpster) abortions.
Right, but if doctor-performed abortion becomes illegal, coathanger and dumpster is all you're going to see. That we see it at all now only sheds light on the shortfalls of proper, frank health education and overall access to health care.

With partial birth abortions, I don't like the idea of government being involved in this decision, but I feel it is a tragedy that the death of child is no fault of his own.
The catch with the partial-birth legislation is that it's purpose is really only that of a foot in the door. This procedure only accounts for (if memory serves) 0.14% of all abortions performed each year and is only performed when and because the mother's life is on the line and/or the fetus is non-viable. BaliBabyDoc explained in great detail in a recent thread why D&X is the way it is, but the bottom line is that the procedure is the least risky for the mother.

I believe the problem with the abortion system lies with those who abuse it by using abortion clinics to regularly erase pregnancies that were easily preventable with birth control and simple sexual responsibility. I also believe records should be kept of people who get abortions more than twice in a year...
I don't have hard facts in front of me, but I'd wager that these women you're referring to are vastly in the minority when it comes to abortions performed each year. It's not often you hear someone recount having had this procedure done in a light-hearted tone. The idea that women are running around blithely getting abortions performed willy-nilly in lieu of contraception largely amounts to pro-life propaganda. I'm honestly clueless as to why the pro-life movement aren't the world's biggest proponents of birth control. Don't like abortion? Go right to the source and make an effort to prevent all the ignorance-induced pregnancies occuring every year. You can harp on abstinence until you're blue and you will indeed reach some teens who will wait for marriage. Most, however, will ignore you and go have at it in the back seat of a car somewhere. They're going to have sex, so you might as well prepare them. Providing education and contraception doesn't any more encourage them to have sex than seat belts encourage them to speed. They're teenagers, they do stuff like that. ;)

 

jaeger66

Banned
Jan 1, 2001
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This was beaten to death a few weeks ago in 2 threads. The summary:

This bill serves no purpose. No abortions are performed using the outlawed procedure. As such, it seems like either a way for the politicians to appease the zealots, or a stealth bill to set precedent for the government dicating medical care instead of your doctor.
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: jaeger66
This was beaten to death a few weeks ago in 2 threads. The summary:

This bill serves no purpose. No abortions are performed using the outlawed procedure. As such, it seems like either a way for the politicians to appease the zealots, or a stealth bill to set precedent for the government dicating medical care instead of your doctor.


Yup.

Scary stuff, IMHO!
 

Cfour

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2000
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www.sternie.com
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.
Good then deal with your own and don't force your morals on others.

 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
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i don't understand trying to make abortions illegal.

didn't we learn anything from prohibition? making something illegal, when you KNOW that people will continue to do it and that it will be impossible to enforce is just plain stupid.

besides, i support the legal right to choose, tho i agree with dezign in saying it is morally and ethically wrong.
 

everman

Lifer
Nov 5, 2002
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It really bugs me when someone calls a women's right to an abortion, "A women's right to choose". Choose what, choose toothpaste? gah stupid ambiguous statements bug me. </meaningless rant>
 

DeafeningSilence

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2002
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Originally posted by: LeeTJ
i don't understand trying to make abortions illegal.

didn't we learn anything from prohibition? making something illegal, when you KNOW that people will continue to do it and that it will be impossible to enforce is just plain stupid.

That's silly. Inability to fully enforce a law does not make the law improper.

Murder... rape... robbery... heck, even tax fraud... with any crime, there are criminals who go unpunished. I don't know of laws that have been passed on the basis of some sort of efficiency rating.
 

Cfour

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Jul 6, 2000
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.
Good then deal with your own and don't force your morals on others.

Hey, I'm just offering my views because this is a forum, and we do that here. Welcome to ATOT.
 

palad

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2000
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I would love to see abortion become illegal. I fully support a woman's right to choose -- I just don't support her right to choose the consequences of her actions. The choice needs to happen before the sex, not after. Afterwards, they need to learn to live with their decisions.

It would be ridiculous for me to step off a cliff, and then halfway down change my mind and expect to land back up where I started. So how can we say it's okay to have unprotected sex, and expect to avoid responsibility for the action?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Cfour
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.
Good then deal with your own and don't force your morals on others.

Hey, I'm just offering my views because this is a forum, and we do that here. Welcome to ATOT.
Granted. Sorry for my pointed post.

 

ILikeStuff

Senior member
Jan 7, 2003
476
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Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.

I agree, except w/ the rape and incest bit... why should the child be punished for the wrongdoing of another person?
 

DeafeningSilence

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2002
1,874
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Originally posted by: Spac3d
This is so stupid, women should have a choice.

I completely support abortion... if you created it, you should be able to destroy it.

I think parents should be able to have complete control over their kids. If you have a retarded kid, you should be able to destroy them. What type of life would they lead? A worthless one because they are useless. There lack of life skills will lead them to rely upon tax dollars just to survive:disgust:

This is truly unbelievable, by the way. I hope you were joking, but I'm afraid that's not the case.

Tell me... on what basis should parents be able to decide to "destroy" their kids? IQ? What numeric score on some dumb test renders one "useless"? Can parents evaluate their children based on other criteria as well? What if they view their child as disappointing because he lies, fights, isn't motivated at school, does drugs, announces he's gay, or doesn't excel at sports?

Unbelievable.
 

newbiepcuser

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2001
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This no means the first step, people tend to only remember Roe V. Wade. But PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PA. v. CASEY, 505 U.S. 833 (1992) was important factor on the power of the state to put restrictions on obtaining an abortion.


The most recent case conerning abortion was The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists on the U.S. Supreme Court Abortion CaseStenberg v. Carhart April 21, 2000 discussing partial abortion.

Linky




 

Cfour

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2000
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Originally posted by: ILikeStuff
Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.

I agree, except w/ the rape and incest bit... why should the child be punished for the wrongdoing of another person?

I can see where you're coming from but in the case of rape.. the woman isn't choosing to have sex. And in the case of incest, isn't there some sort of documentation that shows horrible results of inbreeding? I could be wrong here, so if I am, please correct me.
 

ILikeStuff

Senior member
Jan 7, 2003
476
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Originally posted by: Cfour
Originally posted by: ILikeStuff
Originally posted by: Cfour
Adoption is a perfectly acceptable alternative to abortions. There are waiting lists of capable, loving couples to take in a newborn baby. The only time abortion is acceptable is in the event of rape or incest. If you have sex, you have to accept the possible outcomes of it.

In my eyes, abortion = murder.

I agree, except w/ the rape and incest bit... why should the child be punished for the wrongdoing of another person?

I can see where you're coming from but in the case of rape.. the woman isn't choosing to have sex. And in the case of incest, isn't there some sort of documentation that shows horrible results of inbreeding? I could be wrong here, so if I am, please correct me.

yes, inbreeding can lead to certain birth defects, but it is not a certainty. And just because the woman didn't choose to have sex, should not give her the right to murder her child. (but obviously I am working from the POV that human life begins at conception)