YAPHK (Yet Another Palestinian Honor Killing), teenage girl raped and pregnant by her brothers, killed by her mother

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority.

You are basing this on what?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski
Messed up, certainly, but a glimpse of our own past as well. Civilization is something to be cherished.

Eh, I have a hard time believing that "our past" ever included a generally accepted religious belief that you should kill your own daughter for harming the families honor.

How is that a religious belief? That is more a cultural thing than based in any religious teaching. Where in the Quran or Sharia, does it say you shoudl kill your offspring for supposedly disgracing the familY?

So are honor killings in other populations also due to thier religion? Is thier something in say Hinduism that encourages honor killings?

I'm sure that extremist Hindu's find religious passages to condone it also. But you digress.. I want to see examples of honor killings in "our past"

Salem Witchhunts
Spanish Inquisition
occassional Murder Suicides of broken families

Salem Witchhunts
Honor killing?

Spanish Inquisition
Honor killing?

occassional Murder Suicides of broken families
Certainly far from a generally accepted religious belief.

Nice attempt, but a far cry from 31 times in one year. Heck how many "witches" in Salem were burned? 5? 10? In 200 years?

If it makes you feel better to try and morally equate it to our past, far be it from me to piss in your pudding.

alchemize:

Honor killings are NOT part of an accepted religious belief. Please back up your statements with truthful facts. I dont think ANY religion condones "honor killings". Again please answer the correct question: Where in the Quran or Sharia, does it say you should kill your offspring for supposedly disgracing the familY?

The Quran/Sharia don't explicitly state "kill your wife if she sleeps around". Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so" It's ingrained in the religion and the culture. You can't nicely slice apart culture and religion...


Here is an example of how Sharia is applied leniently:


Text
Islamic courts applying the sharia will accept pleas of extenuating circumstances if the accused is shown to have acted in response to "serious and sudden provocation". A man sentenced to life imprisonment for murdering his daughter and a young man after they had been discovered "in a compromising situation" had his sentence cut to five years by the High Court in Lahore. It ruled that his deed was justified by the behaviour of the victims, which was intolerable in an Islamic state and unbearable for the head of a family. Murderers have even been set free in similar cases. At a recent divorce hearing, women?s rights lawyer Asma Jahangir was rebuked by the judge in terms that illustrate the extent of the problem. "You have no right to be in this court," he told her; "it is you that ought to be in prison."

And how many posts of women being killed/stoned/etc. would you like?



In Iran

In Saudi Arabia

In Palestine

Everywhere

Article 340 of the Penal Code of Jordan used to contain an exemption from penalty if a man killed his wife or female relative after finding her ?committing adultery with another.? This Article has since been repealed, but there are other Articles that allow for a reduced sentence if the men were "provoked" into performing the murder. Article 548 of the Penal Code of Syria also provides an exemption from penalty if a man kills or injures his wife or female after finding her committing adultery or other ?illegitimate sexual acts with another.?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski
Messed up, certainly, but a glimpse of our own past as well. Civilization is something to be cherished.

Eh, I have a hard time believing that "our past" ever included a generally accepted religious belief that you should kill your own daughter for harming the families honor.

How is that a religious belief? That is more a cultural thing than based in any religious teaching. Where in the Quran or Sharia, does it say you shoudl kill your offspring for supposedly disgracing the familY?

So are honor killings in other populations also due to thier religion? Is thier something in say Hinduism that encourages honor killings?

I'm sure that extremist Hindu's find religious passages to condone it also. But you digress.. I want to see examples of honor killings in "our past"

Salem Witchhunts
Spanish Inquisition
occassional Murder Suicides of broken families

Salem Witchhunts
Honor killing?

Spanish Inquisition
Honor killing?

occassional Murder Suicides of broken families
Certainly far from a generally accepted religious belief.

Nice attempt, but a far cry from 31 times in one year. Heck how many "witches" in Salem were burned? 5? 10? In 200 years?

If it makes you feel better to try and morally equate it to our past, far be it from me to piss in your pudding.

Other than the name, what's the difference?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority.

You are basing this on what?

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

Bolded part: Yup, it took us a long time to get there too.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

Bolded part: Yup, it took us a long time to get there too.

So wouldn't it be wonderful if Islam would CATCH UP? It took a schism and a hell of a lot of wars to get us to this point. I really hope the same isn't required to get Islam there

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority.

You are basing this on what?

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

So you believe that the large majority of Muslims believe that:

Believe the jews are the root of all evil.
Believe women are subhuman
And that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die.

I just want to get that straight. How many Muslim majority nations have you been to exactly? How many Muslims have you spoken to exactly?

I have been to Lebanon, Oman, Egypt, and Israel which has a large muslim population and I have found that the views you attribute to the majority of Muslims are indeed that of a minority of fanatics. Also, 99.99% of muslim familes I have met are extremely loving and close knit even if thier social mores are somewhat different from a liberal Westerners and wouldn't dream of killing thier children.

I think you are making judgments based on flawed interpretations of limited data viewed through an inherenly biased mind (biased for what reason I don't know).and I don't believe that I will be able to convince you otherwise regardless.

And yes, the large majority of people in most Muslim nations are longing for more modernity, more freedom, more openness, more represenation, a justice system and government that works for them and protects them rather than exploiting them. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening or prevalent. Again, I must warn you that it is very dangerous to make judgements such as that on huge groups of people based on such limited and filtered information. Watch Al Jazeera or Al Arabiya sometime and you will see that, if you can get past your initial suspician that it is all biased propoganda.

 

[rufruf44]

Heh, I used to make the argument that Islam today is not much different from Christianity 7-8 centuries ago. It was more of a tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it, it makes sense somewhat. Lets just hope it doesn't take Islam 7 more centuries to evolve, otherwise we'll have much more blood spilled.

 

[Sultan]

alchemize:

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

Beheading is a form of capital punishment. Many Western countries capital punishment. What you call backwards cannot be applied to everyone. Stoning and whipping are (may) be forms of punishment for adultery. I congratulate the Muslims for adhering to their religious beliefs. The West calls if Fundamentalist, I call it following one's faith. Cutting off hands is also part of the Muslim faith. Cutting off clitoris is a weird practice of Northern African countries. I dont support it, nor do I condemn it. There is no punishment in the religion for being born a woman. Stop with your gripe about Women oppression in Islam. Look at the European nations. In Germany and France, there is an active movement by muslim WOMEN for letting them wear the scarf in public.

Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity.

Your opinion. Biased and racist one at that. The Muslim nations of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia may not be the most prosperous countries, but they ARE somewhat successful Third World Nations.

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

I dont even understand how that is related to religious theology Homosexuality is forbidden according to Christianity as far as I know. What a weird argument

The Quran/Sharia don't explicitly state "kill your wife if she sleeps around". Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so" It's ingrained in the religion and the culture. You can't nicely slice apart culture and religion...

From the very article you posted:
"Crimes of honour are a pre-Islamic practice. They have no real basis in religion"

Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so". If that was true, one could say Adultery, Alcohol, Gambling, Prostitution are all part of Christianity. Come on dude, be a little bit logical.

The links you provided unfortunately are true. I have stated before, such incidents do occur. And its shameful. But they are NOT part of the "accepted religious belief". Make a distinction.

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

Yes, reforms are taking place in the Muslim nations of the world, slowly but steadily. Iraq, nor Afghanistan has a secular government. Afghanistan recently drew up the constitution as Sharia being at the forefront of the countries laws. And since you are basing your opinion on the Western media, try opening up your mind a bit and talk to Muslim families and find out what they think.

Read tnitsuj posts. Try not to just attack others but broaden your understanding.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Sultan
alchemize:

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

Beheading is a form of capital punishment. Many Western countries capital punishment. What you call backwards cannot be applied to everyone. Stoning and whipping are (may) be forms of punishment for adultery. I congratulate the Muslims for adhering to their religious beliefs. The West calls if Fundamentalist, I call it following one's faith. Cutting off hands is also part of the Muslim faith. Cutting off clitoris is a weird practice of Northern African countries. I dont support it, nor do I condemn it. There is no punishment in the religion for being born a woman. Stop with your gripe about Women oppression in Islam. Look at the European nations. In Germany and France, there is an active movement by muslim WOMEN for letting them wear the scarf in public.

Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity.

Your opinion. Biased and racist one at that. The Muslim nations of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia may not be the most prosperous countries, but they ARE somewhat successful Third World Nations.

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

I dont even understand how that is related to religious theology Homosexuality is forbidden according to Christianity as far as I know. What a weird argument

The Quran/Sharia don't explicitly state "kill your wife if she sleeps around". Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so" It's ingrained in the religion and the culture. You can't nicely slice apart culture and religion...

From the very article you posted:
"Crimes of honour are a pre-Islamic practice. They have no real basis in religion"

Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so". If that was true, one could say Adultery, Alcohol, Gambling, Prostitution are all part of Christianity. Come on dude, be a little bit logical.

The links you provided unfortunately are true. I have stated before, such incidents do occur. And its shameful. But they are NOT part of the "accepted religious belief". Make a distinction.

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

Yes, reforms are taking place in the Muslim nations of the world, slowly but steadily. Iraq, nor Afghanistan has a secular government. Afghanistan recently drew up the constitution as Sharia being at the forefront of the countries laws. And since you are basing your opinion on the Western media, try opening up your mind a bit and talk to Muslim families and find out what they think.

Read tnitsuj posts. Try not to just attack others but broaden your understanding.

Growing tired of this argument, but YOUR bias comes through nicely. I think on almost every response you've called me biased and racist. It's a standard liberal response when defending atrocities.

Here's your bias:

1) Unwilling to condemn female mutilation. It's bizarre, but far be it from you to condemn it!
2) Support forms of what the western world considers cruel and unusual punishment and are illegal
3) Believe homosexuals are an abomination (and probably #2 applies to them right?)
4) You think fundamentalism is just "following one's faith"


Just another sicko using religion as a justification to control women and people's minds.

 

[tk149]

Evil wins. That is so efffed up.

 

[kage69]

" Leviticus 21:9 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

I don't see how this applies: a woman chooses to become a prostitute - women don't choose to be raped. Also, this seems to only apply to the daughters of priests.
The Old Testament also tells us it's alright to own slaves, just as long as they aren't from neighboring nations. I don't know many Christians applying that to their lives.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: kage69

" Leviticus 21:9 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

I don't see how this applies: a woman chooses to become a prostitute - women don't choose to be raped. Also, this seems to only apply to the daughters of priests.
The Old Testament also tells us it's alright to own slaves, just as long as they aren't from neighboring nations. I don't know many Christians applying that to their lives.

Hello Kage. Please read the context of the quote from the Bible.

As for the second part, I already addressed what Christians do and dont apply to their lives.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan
alchemize:

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

Beheading is a form of capital punishment. Many Western countries capital punishment. What you call backwards cannot be applied to everyone. Stoning and whipping are (may) be forms of punishment for adultery. I congratulate the Muslims for adhering to their religious beliefs. The West calls if Fundamentalist, I call it following one's faith. Cutting off hands is also part of the Muslim faith. Cutting off clitoris is a weird practice of Northern African countries. I dont support it, nor do I condemn it. There is no punishment in the religion for being born a woman. Stop with your gripe about Women oppression in Islam. Look at the European nations. In Germany and France, there is an active movement by muslim WOMEN for letting them wear the scarf in public.

Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity.

Your opinion. Biased and racist one at that. The Muslim nations of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia may not be the most prosperous countries, but they ARE somewhat successful Third World Nations.

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

I dont even understand how that is related to religious theology Homosexuality is forbidden according to Christianity as far as I know. What a weird argument

The Quran/Sharia don't explicitly state "kill your wife if she sleeps around". Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so" It's ingrained in the religion and the culture. You can't nicely slice apart culture and religion...

From the very article you posted:
"Crimes of honour are a pre-Islamic practice. They have no real basis in religion"

Accepted religious belief is not the same thing as "Sharia/Quran told me so". If that was true, one could say Adultery, Alcohol, Gambling, Prostitution are all part of Christianity. Come on dude, be a little bit logical.

The links you provided unfortunately are true. I have stated before, such incidents do occur. And its shameful. But they are NOT part of the "accepted religious belief". Make a distinction.

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

Yes, reforms are taking place in the Muslim nations of the world, slowly but steadily. Iraq, nor Afghanistan has a secular government. Afghanistan recently drew up the constitution as Sharia being at the forefront of the countries laws. And since you are basing your opinion on the Western media, try opening up your mind a bit and talk to Muslim families and find out what they think.

Read tnitsuj posts. Try not to just attack others but broaden your understanding.

Growing tired of this argument, but YOUR bias comes through nicely. I think on almost every response you've called me biased and racist. It's a standard liberal response when defending atrocities.

Here's your bias:

1) Unwilling to condemn female mutilation. It's bizarre, but far be it from you to condemn it!
2) Support forms of what the western world considers cruel and unusual punishment and are illegal
3) Believe homosexuals are an abomination (and probably #2 applies to them right?)
4) You think fundamentalism is just "following one's faith"


Just another sicko using religion as a justification to control women and people's minds.

Yes, I am unwilling to condemn it. I am not the world's moral gaurdian and neither are you, so STFU! At one time, circumcision was termed as mutilation.

I did not even touch on the issue of homosexuality you jack@ass. Just like you, putting words into other people's mouth. People like you bring America's name into disrepute.

The Western world's opinions is not shared with every human on the planet.

fundamentalism

n : the interpretation of every word in the Bible as literal truth

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

You are a narrow minded, intolerant @sshole. You believe your opinion and viewpoint MUST be shared with every other person. You have no idea what your own religion states, much less what other religions preach. My "BIAS" is factual. Yours? HA! What a retard. Use iodized salt from now.

 

[kage69]

Hello Kage. Please read the context of the quote from the Bible.

Indulge me then. I'm at work and have no Bible. What context might you be refering to?

As for the second part, I already addressed what Christians do and dont apply to their lives.

Then you shouldn't have a problem pointing to it and explaining it's relevence. Maybe I'm just silly like that, but I can't find anything beyond a Bible quote that we both agree on Muslims don't use against Christians, as, well, we both know Christians just don't do stuff like that.



Uhmmm..
*scratches head*

 

[kage69]

Use iodized salt from now.

LMAO! I'll have to remember that one.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: kage69

Hello Kage. Please read the context of the quote from the Bible.

Indulge me then. I'm at work and have no Bible. What context might you be refering to?

As for the second part, I already addressed what Christians do and dont apply to their lives.

Then you shouldn't have a problem pointing to it and explaining it's relevence. Maybe I'm just silly like that, but I can't find anything beyond a Bible quote that we both agree on Muslims don't use against Christians, as, well, we both know Christians just don't do stuff like that.



Uhmmm..
*scratches head*

The context was that the Bible (as might the Quran) also contains many laws and rulings that some might consider barbaric or out of touch with reality and so on and so forth. Yet, according to Christians, the Bible is word of God. In my opinion, words of God dont go out of style.

Your second half of post referred to exactly what I had said before. Almost all the Christians have moved away from their religion. I dont see many practicing what the Bible teaches. That may be true for Muslims too as I have been saying all along. The practices of Honor Killings and such other vices have no place in Islamic teaching, and that is a fact.

By the way, Muslims believe the Bible to be a Heavenly book, albeit changed/modified by people for their self-interests. Case in example: there are over 24000 versions of the Bible. Moreover, Muslims also believe in Jesus and of his miraculous birth. They dont however believe he was God, but that he was a Prophet. I could go on and on.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Sharia dictates such things as a husbands word is worth 2x that of his wives. 3 witnesses required to overturn the word of the husband. Adultery is a stoneable offense (for women). Not the cause? It's cause they are poor and unedcuated? Oh you say MALE DOMINATED....why are they male dominated? Sharia...


Amazing how a post on this brings out the YAIA's (yet another islam apologist)

If mention facts is akin to being a YAIA, then I suppose thats what I am doing. Your posts show how racist you are against a religion which has around 1/5ths of the World's population.

And by the way, Sharia does NOT dictate a husband's word is worth 2x than that of his wives. 3 witnesses are not required to overturn the word of the husband. If the husband accuses his wife (or vice versa) of infidelity (or any other thing) and she swears by the Quran four times she is innocent, then the matter is laid to rest and the Quran explicitly states that God will be the judge on the case.

And adultery is a stoneable offense for either a man or a woman. However, that is a debatable issue amongst Muslim scholars as the Quran states the adulteror or adulteress will be whipped 100 times if found guilty.

Sir, you are quite ignorant and your posts clearly show how racist and biased your mindset is.

Sorry, I was wrong. Your stoning and whipping laws are applied fairly and equally I'm sure. Thanks for clearing things up.

I'm glad the decision between either stoning or whipping is a hotly contested punishment among Muslim scholars. True enlightenment is nigh.

Pray tell me what religion do you follow. Your racism and religious tolerance leaves much to be desired. Do you see the Muslims criticizing Christian revelations such as (just one example):

Leviticus 21
9 " 'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

Blah blah that's the typical islam defense quote trotted out. Ever notice it was from the Old Testament? It's full of stuff like that.

Ever notice that we don't burn prostitutes at the stake? (Or behead them like in many Islamic countries).

I'll become tolerant of the worlds backward religions when they become tolerant of the rest of the world. Not just islam...

Of course, what do I know. I'm an unbeliever, an infidel, and my life is worth less (if anything).

Yes, I did notice that "we" do not burn prostitutes at the stake. This would mean "we" do not follow what our religion - what God has commanded us to do.

Beheading has nothing to do with this post. However, that is not practiced in many Islamic countries. And I fail to see the difference between beheading, hanging or death by lethal injection.

On the contrary, why dont you start being tolerant towards what you call "backward religions"? Maybe then they'll look at you as a role model and follow your example. The opinion of over 1 billion people on issues you state against your opinion... hmm...

Beheading has everything to do with this post. So does stoning, and whipping. And cutting off hands. And cutting off a clitoris. Crimes that justify these punishments? Adultery. Prostitution. Stealing. Homosexuality. Being born a woman. Fail to see the difference in that, and executing a mass murderer after a trial and appeal process?*

The Islamic world doesn't need a western role model. It needs a revolution along the lines of Luther. A schism. A Ghandi. Someone to drag them out of the dark ages and into an age of reason and secularity. We already know money won't fix it. Violence won't either. I have serious doubts about democracy. I'm quite tolerant of those who practice Islam in a manner that doesn't involve the aforementioned. That don't believe the jews are the root of all evil. That don't believe women are subhuman, and that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die. The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority. You might even be in that minority, but instead of speaking out against the atrocities, the infestation of fundamentalism and corruption, the rights of women, instead you'd rather argue about how "not every country does it".

As you mentioned, while Islamic scholars are discussing whether or not someone should be stoned or whipped according to Sharia, Christian and (non-christian) scholars are discussing whether gay priests should be allowed, or gay marriages. Quite a bit at the other end of the spectrum, don't you think?

*For the record, I don't support capital punishment.

The problem with Islam is that these people are in the silent minority.

You are basing this on what?

Are you trying to tell me that there is a large majority of Islam crying out for the reforms I just outlined? You are basing this on what?

I'm basing it on Western media I suppose. And the fact that there are no reforms happening. And Polls I see. And that there are no secular governments with large islamic populations, and save Iraq and Afghanistan (probably won't happen there either), none leaning that way.

So you believe that the large majority of Muslims believe that:

Believe the jews are the root of all evil.
Believe women are subhuman
And that those who don't believe in islam must be subjugated or die.

I just want to get that straight. How many Muslim majority nations have you been to exactly? How many Muslims have you spoken to exactly?

I have been to Lebanon, Oman, Egypt, and Israel which has a large muslim population and I have found that the views you attribute to the majority of Muslims are indeed that of a minority of fanatics. Also, 99.99% of muslim familes I have met are extremely loving and close knit even if thier social mores are somewhat different from a liberal Westerners and wouldn't dream of killing thier children.

I think you are making judgments based on flawed interpretations of limited data viewed through an inherenly biased mind (biased for what reason I don't know).and I don't believe that I will be able to convince you otherwise regardless.

And yes, the large majority of people in most Muslim nations are longing for more modernity, more freedom, more openness, more represenation, a justice system and government that works for them and protects them rather than exploiting them. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening or prevalent. Again, I must warn you that it is very dangerous to make judgements such as that on huge groups of people based on such limited and filtered information. Watch Al Jazeera or Al Arabiya sometime and you will see that, if you can get past your initial suspician that it is all biased propoganda.

Obviously alchemize has not been to any Muslim country or met many, if any, Muslim people. I have lived in Malaysia, been to Indonesia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates and I can tell you, people who think all Muslims are just a bunch of barberous backwoods fanatics have just been watching FOX News too long. Kuala Lumpur and Dubai are two of the most amazing, ultra modern and easy going cities I have ever been to and I travel a lot. There are amazing clubs and bars and no woman has to cover up if they don't want to. Same with Turkey. I have been to India which has a huge Muslim population and all the Muslims I met were far from radical. Hell, many of my friends right here in the US are Muslim and they make me look conservative. The only Muslim country I have been to that I found oppresivly conservative is Saudi Arabia . However, that does not reflect the will of the majority either, just the Wahabi beleif system of the royal family who most average people despise and who remain in power thanks to the US. I love it how people generalize while having absolutely no clue. It's so the American way. It's not that the Muslim world has a moderate silent minority, it is just that it has a very vocal radical minority and any fvcked up thing they do gets tones of press.

P.S. many here love talking about how Islam subjugates women. Pakistan and Indonesia both have or have had female heads of State. Many women hold high positions in gov. in Muslim countries. Also many of the prominent scientists, doctors etc are women. When do you think America will have a female head of state? Furthermore, most Muslim countries do not oppress people of other religions. Malaysia, for example, has a huge Christian, Buddhist and Hindu population, same as Indonesia. Even Iraq and Palestine have/had many Christians in prominent positions in gov and society. Turkey has been protecting Jews for hundreds of years while Chrisitans were massacreing them during both the Inquisition and the Holaucaust.
Most people do not understand that Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan do not comprise the Muslim world. There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, that is more than 1 in 6 of the global population. Millions of Muslims are fellow AMERICANS, many born and bred. It has the highest voluntary conversion rate of any religion. If the people here who love to trash Islam actually had a clue, they would not be here posting generalizations. There are bad apples everywhere, try to open your minds and keep it in perspective.

 

[alchemize]

Yah Pakistan has a great record with women's rights.

They're a loving bunch over there.

?Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn?t look for a nation to be in better condition than another nation. Islam doesn?t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power in this world that tries to get in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy.? - Mawlana Abul Ala Mawdudi, founder of Pakistan?s fundamentalist movement.

And Indonesia is just a peaceful tranquil utopia

DEADLY BOMBINGS IN INDONESIA SINCE 1999

Aug. 5, 2003: Marriott Bomb in central Jakarta, kills 13, wounds 149
July 14, 2003: Bomb attack on Indonesia's Parliament.
April, 28, 2003: A pipe bomb kills 11 at Jakarta airport.
Oct. 12, 2002: Bomb attacks on Bali kill 202.
July 1, 2002: Supermarket bomb kills one.
Jan.1, 2002: Grenade attack kills one.
Dec. 24, 2000: Bombings at churches in 10 cities kill 16.
Sept. 13, 2000: Jakarta Stock Exchange bombing kills 10.
Aug. 1, 2000: Bombing kills two.

The Women's Crisis Center based in Penang is an umbrella organization representing many lobby groups and is a staunch opponent of hudud and Shariah.

"Under this Bill, a woman who reports she has been raped will be charged for qazaf (slanderous accusation) and flogged 80 lashes if she is unable to prove the rape. A woman cannot be a witness ... and must have no less than four male witnesses if she is to prove she was raped," the group's website proclaims.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Yah Pakistan has a great record with women's rights.

They're a loving bunch over there.

?Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. Islam doesn?t look for a nation to be in better condition than another nation. Islam doesn?t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power in this world that tries to get in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy.? - Mawlana Abul Ala Mawdudi, founder of Pakistan?s fundamentalist movement.

And Indonesia is just a peaceful tranquil utopia

DEADLY BOMBINGS IN INDONESIA SINCE 1999

Aug. 5, 2003: Marriott Bomb in central Jakarta, kills 13, wounds 149
July 14, 2003: Bomb attack on Indonesia's Parliament.
April, 28, 2003: A pipe bomb kills 11 at Jakarta airport.
Oct. 12, 2002: Bomb attacks on Bali kill 202.
July 1, 2002: Supermarket bomb kills one.
Jan.1, 2002: Grenade attack kills one.
Dec. 24, 2000: Bombings at churches in 10 cities kill 16.
Sept. 13, 2000: Jakarta Stock Exchange bombing kills 10.
Aug. 1, 2000: Bombing kills two.

The Women's Crisis Center based in Penang is an umbrella organization representing many lobby groups and is a staunch opponent of hudud and Shariah.

"Under this Bill, a woman who reports she has been raped will be charged for qazaf (slanderous accusation) and flogged 80 lashes if she is unable to prove the rape. A woman cannot be a witness ... and must have no less than four male witnesses if she is to prove she was raped," the group's website proclaims.

Nice try alchemize. You put a quote from the founder of Pakistan?s fundamentalist movement. Is he in power? NO. Is some BS he says universal truth? NO. Yes there is violence in Indonesia, has the gov. caved in to terrorists? NO. Are they are fighting back against terror, just like we claim we are? YES. Is Megawati still president? YES. There are incidents of women being abused in many Muslim countries, but how many women are raped and abused right here in the US?
Once again, instead of just watching TV, I encourage you to make a Muslim friend or visit a Muslim country and really get a clue about what you are talking about. And once again I urge you to try and understand the concept of "the actions of a few don't represent the actions of all". Even if you combed the web and found every claim of violence perpetrated by a Muslim in the last 10 years, they still wouldn't add up to a number that represents a fraction of the 1.3 bil. Muslims in the world today. I don't think you understand, 1.3 billion is ONE THOSAND THREE HUNDRED MILLION and for you to pretend like you can possibly understand or know what even the majority of those people think is beyond ridiculous, its plain retarded.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I love it how alchemize magically dissapears from threads just as they get interesting.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

still waiting...