YAMT: Cold tires + cold pavement = the suck

[Schadenfreude]

Well, I thought I'd rant here;

I was leaving to go to a buddy's on my new (used) motorcycle; I make a left turn out of my parking lot, and it being a motorcycle, I lean to the left - usually, one can give throttle in the middle of the turn to give it some grip (as I've been taught) - but not on a cold bike w/ cold tires on cold pavement.

Like I said, I was leaving the parking lot, so I was maybe going 10~15 MPH, but it still doesn't mean that it doesn't suck.

Pretty weak for a rant, I know, but lesson learned. Thankfully, nothing's damaged expect for my ego (all my neighbors were yelling "are you okay?" as I walked it back to the parking lot/out of traffic to check it) and a few cosmetic scratches on the bike . . .. Really, nothing worth taking pics for. Even my bruises are insignificant (I always cover myself head to toe when riding). I tell ya, I'm definitely taking the advanced riders' MSF course, and I'm not going anywhere until I get some crashbars on my bike.

Cliffs note:
- OP is a motorcycle n00b
- OP demonstrated his n00bness to the neighbors by turning too steep on cold pavement cold tires.
- OP is also a lucky SOB as there's nothing pic-worthy as far as damage goes.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Get a bicycle, ZNOOB!!111

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Damn, well, best thing that came of this is that you realized the issue and will be more careful - plenty of idiots out there that just want to... well, be idiots.

 

[mugs]

Be careful next time, kthxbye.

 

[isekii]

No clue where you are but hte weather is way too cold for a bike right now.

The tires must have been solid as rocks.

 

[NanoStuff]

I still don't see what this has to do with monkeys.

 

[I Saw OJ]

Well it was bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[zixxer]

I'm sorry you went down - it sucks - but don't blame it on cold tires. You fscked up, and imo the #1 reason people keep going down is not admitting fault.


Your tires are cold, so be gentle with the throttle. That's not the bike, tire, or pavement's fault.

(what bike do you have?)


Be safe! ATGATT (all the gear, all the time..) I ride year round as well.. (well, here in atlanta it really only gets down to 15-20 on a daily average...)


EDIT:

And the ERC is an awesome course. I've been riding for about 4-5 years, and have put ~40k+ miles on bikes, and learned a LOT from it... far more than the MSF.. although the msf should be required to get a M class license imo

EDIT2:

I'll use this edit to show off my new bike

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=2029697

 

[markgm]

I rode all winter in CT, so it's not that the tires can't grip in the cold. You can't grab either the brakes or the throttle in a turn. Roll on, roll off. One more reason to wear the right gear!

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: zixxer
I'm sorry you went down - it sucks - but don't blame it on cold tires. You fscked up, and imo the #1 reason people keep going down is not admitting fault.


Your tires are cold, so be gentle with the throttle. That's not the bike, tire, or pavement's fault.

(what bike do you have?)


Be safe! ATGATT (all the gear, all the time..) I ride year round as well.. (well, here in atlanta it really only gets down to 15-20 on a daily average...)


EDIT:

And the ERC is an awesome course. I've been riding for about 4-5 years, and have put ~40k+ miles on bikes, and learned a LOT from it... far more than the MSF.. although the msf should be required to get a M class license imo

EDIT2:

I'll use this edit to show off my new bike

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=2029697

Well of course I fvcked up - I didn't adjust the throttle accordingly, and I'd be the first one to admit my n00bishness.

Besides, my SV650 can do no wrong

Yeah, it's warming up outside, but it's not going anywhere until I install some crash bars on it.

 

[Eli]

Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: Eli
Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

Are you kidding?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude

Originally posted by: Eli
Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

Are you kidding?

No.

I'm failing to believe that sticky tires and hot pavement would have kept you from going down. Is it really that big of a deal with motorcycles?

Educate me. I know it does matter for traction, but would the extra friction have really kept you right side up?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude

Originally posted by: Eli
Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

Are you kidding?

No.

I'm failing to believe that sticky tires and hot pavement would have kept you from going down. Is it really that big of a deal with motorcycles?

Educate me. I know it does matter for traction, but would the extra friction have really kept you right side up?

Eli, you're right.

Bikes at low speeds have very little gyscopic effect and aren't that stable. In fact, most people will drop a bike more than once in a parking lot while learning how to ride.

Now, if there were a little condensation together with the cold, that certainly might have played into things, but baring some really, really bad tires or a really, really cold day, the temperature and the tires had very little to do with the bike being dropped.

ZV <- Riding since 18.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude

Originally posted by: Eli
Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

Are you kidding?

No.

I'm failing to believe that sticky tires and hot pavement would have kept you from going down. Is it really that big of a deal with motorcycles?

Educate me. I know it does matter for traction, but would the extra friction have really kept you right side up?

Well, honestly, I'm not pro at this but let me go into the situation in better detail;
- First and foremost, yes, it was my fault, not the machine's, for going down. I'm more than willing to say it, because - well, it's true.
- But as far the rest of the details;
Obviously motorcycles run on two wheels - and unlike cars, you lean in to turn, like a bicycle; which means that the tire profile design on a motorcycle is more like an oval than a square; which if you look at a car tire, it resembles a rectangle (the car's tire contact patch is flat on the ground). That would mean that even if you're going straight, you get much, much less contact between the tire and the pavement - in retrospect, when I took the MSF course, they could not stress that enough, and warned against riding on cold tires - but I"m not that experienced enough to explain all the details. I'm sure someone else on ATOT is more than willing to do that.
- I was exiting my parking lot when this happened. There was a bit of warm weather before, and I can definitely tell you that I rode in the same exact fashion when I dropped it as I did when it was warm - so it's not like I was not familiar with the area. I should have adjusted to the situation, but I did not. Simple as that.; but the fact of the matter is, the fact that the tires and pavement is cold is enough of a reason to adjust riding habits, I guess. Lesson learned.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude

Originally posted by: Eli
Cold pavement and cold tires almost certainly had nothing to do with your accident.

Unless it was like 20 below or something maybe.... lol

Are you kidding?

No.

I'm failing to believe that sticky tires and hot pavement would have kept you from going down. Is it really that big of a deal with motorcycles?

Educate me. I know it does matter for traction, but would the extra friction have really kept you right side up?

Well, honestly, I'm not pro at this but let me go into the situation in better detail;
- First and foremost, yes, it was my fault, not the machine's, for going down. I'm more than willing to say it, because - well, it's true.
- But as far the rest of the details;
Obviously motorcycles run on two wheels - and unlike cars, you lean in to turn, like a bicycle; which means that the tire profile design on a motorcycle is more like an oval than a square; which if you look at a car tire, it resembles a rectangle (the car's tire contact patch is flat on the ground). That would mean that even if you're going straight, you get much, much less contact between the tire and the pavement - in retrospect, when I took the MSF course, they could not stress that enough, and warned against riding on cold tires - but I"m not that experienced enough to explain all the details. I'm sure someone else on ATOT is more than willing to do that.
- I was exiting my parking lot when this happened. There was a bit of warm weather before, and I can definitely tell you that I rode in the same exact fashion when I dropped it as I did when it was warm - so it's not like I was not familiar with the area. I should have adjusted to the situation, but I did not. Simple as that.; but the fact of the matter is, the fact that the tires and pavement is cold is enough of a reason to adjust riding habits, I guess. Lesson learned.

Cold road surface and cold rubber does mean less grip -

I had an 03 sv650 for awhile.. I liked it. Get frame sliders. I don't remember the brand I put on mine, but an ex dropped it at least 3-4 times while learning to ride and the sliders really really helped.. nothing got scratched other than the slider and the exhaust (and even then only a *little* bit

 

[dbk]

Read up on all the technicalities of riding a motorbike because obviously it is very unforgiving if you make a mistake.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
...when I took the MSF course, they could not stress that enough, and warned against riding on cold tires - but I"m not that experienced enough to explain all the details. I'm sure someone else on ATOT is more than willing to do that.

There is less grip, yes. But at parking lot speeds that's simply not going to come into play. The MSF emphasis against cold tires is warning you not to go diving into that hairpin corner at 45mph on cold tires. At 5-10 mph in a parking lot, even with very, very cold tires you're not going to come close to the limits of adhesion.

You either hit a slick spot on the pavement that wasn't there previously, or simply let the bike lean a couple degrees more than you had the previous time. It's common, it happened to me more than once in my first year or two of riding.

Many riders, at parking lot speeds, will keep their feet off the pegs to catch the bike if something like this happens.

ZV

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: isekii
No clue where you are but hte weather is way too cold for a bike right now.

The tires must have been solid as rocks.

never too cold for a bike.


and burn the tires a bit before ya leave, but more importantly dont lean so far when turning

 

[halik]

So what exactly happened? You cracked the throttle and lost traction on the rear wheel? Even on a cold day with cold tires you have to give it a ton of gas to do that...

<- owns '03 GSXR

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: isekii
No clue where you are but hte weather is way too cold for a bike right now.

The tires must have been solid as rocks.

never too cold for a bike.


and burn the tires a bit before ya leave, but more importantly dont lean so far when turning

should you really burn the tires? thats gonna rub the tires down raw and require new tires, and from what my neighbor said, new tires are expensive.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: halik
So what exactly happened? You cracked the throttle and lost traction on the rear wheel? Even on a cold day with cold tires you have to give it a ton of gas to do that...

<- owns '03 GSXR

mine breaks with barely any throttle... but i have a pretty quick bike. looks like hell, but its pretty quick. if you have any kind of power, you can get it to break by jerking the throttle in a turn, cold or warm. i run pretty soft tires too, so im not too worried about it.


btw OP, if youre using a long life tire like a 80K michelin you may want to look at a softer road tire for it. those tires last forever, but the rubber is pretty tough on them. i miss my pirelli phantoms i used to be able to buy for 35 bucks here, those were sticky tires. on a hot summer day here in arizona you could almost hear them sticking to the road. wouldnt get much more than 10K out of em, but they didnt break unless you really really wanted them to.


(oh, my ride is a 79 honda cb750 with a bunch of mods to it. last dyno had it up at 105HP after i put touring 45 sprocket on it. the jets are back down to 110 instead of the 125 that i used to have too, so its a bit lower now also. havent dyno'd it yet. love that bike.)

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: isekii
No clue where you are but hte weather is way too cold for a bike right now.

The tires must have been solid as rocks.

never too cold for a bike.


and burn the tires a bit before ya leave, but more importantly dont lean so far when turning

should you really burn the tires? thats gonna rub the tires down raw and require new tires, and from what my neighbor said, new tires are expensive.

no, it was a joke. dragging you will burn the tires to heat them up and get some gummies going, but for everyday use you dont wanna do that too much. too much tire wear there.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: halik
So what exactly happened? You cracked the throttle and lost traction on the rear wheel? Even on a cold day with cold tires you have to give it a ton of gas to do that...

<- owns '03 GSXR

mine breaks with barely any throttle... but i have a pretty quick bike. looks like hell, but its pretty quick. if you have any kind of power, you can get it to break by jerking the throttle in a turn, cold or warm. i run pretty soft tires too, so im not too worried about it.


btw OP, if youre using a long life tire like a 80K michelin you may want to look at a softer road tire for it. those tires last forever, but the rubber is pretty tough on them. i miss my pirelli phantoms i used to be able to buy for 35 bucks here, those were sticky tires. on a hot summer day here in arizona you could almost hear them sticking to the road. wouldnt get much more than 10K out of em, but they didnt break unless you really really wanted them to.


(oh, my ride is a 79 honda cb750 with a bunch of mods to it. last dyno had it up at 105HP after i put touring 45 sprocket on it. the jets are back down to 110 instead of the 125 that i used to have too, so its a bit lower now also. havent dyno'd it yet. love that bike.)

I wish I could 10k out of even my front tire... I get about 3-4k out of a rear, 7k or so from a front.