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Ya'll gettin enough water?

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Feb 4, 2009
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No problem with water here:
Worcester Surpasses Wettest July In Recorded History – CBS Boston (cbslocal.com)
As of Sunday afternoon, Worcester has recorded 12.67 inches of rain for the month. The previous record was 11.24 inches, set back in 1938.

Oh and that article was from the 18th...so wettest month on record when July was barely 1/2 way over. Ended up with just over 35 inches for the month.


View attachment 48155


Over 80 inches for the year so far with some sort of precipitation 42% of the days

View attachment 48156

Our mold has mold.
We are nearly neighbors
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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That's true as well, but a lot of non-transportation things will still be based on oil for the foreseeable future. But getting off oil is politically expedient. The Middle East will have less say, for example.

Plastic furniture, for one. After all, the matter of living frugally means products that help one function at the lowest cost, and plastic drawers win on price.

And Big Pharma is never letting oil go. The gazillions of organic compounds are usually made from hydrocarbons.

And the exhaust of consumers in third world countries is much nastier than what comes out uof cars with catalytic converters.
Oil itself is not the issue, it's the carbon release into the atmosphere. Burning oil is the problem, as I understand it. Other uses for oil, if they don't contribute to carbon release into the atmosphere AFAIK, not the problem.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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Oil does far more than water. There is no rural life in the middle of nowhere without oil. I picked up a magazine for cars and Charles Kettering of GM wrote an article on how the automobile changed how people lived. No longer did people have to be jam packed in cities. Food production and drug production are also based on oil-derived chemicals.
Water helps people live. Oil makes people thrive. Right down to sex itself since oftentimes...people use the synthetic latex when getting down to business.

Giant water distilleries basically need a giant fuel source to separate the salt from the water. Plus, coastal real estate is usually quite valuable....
You can make do without oil. Water, not so much.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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Can someone explain why California hasn’t move to desalination plants. I want to be clear I am no expert in the subject but I do know they are possible. Sort of remember a new type being tested from years ago and California was worried about sucking in too many fish but that can’t be the reason it is holding it up.
It's very expensive.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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Are long term droughts cheaper?
Maybe not. I don't know where this is going, TBH. Depends a lot on the weather, which is unpredictable to a considerable degree. But the experts don't think the tendency of more droughts and more severe droughts is going to abate is what I heard.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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Governments like to spend more money so they can save less. If there is a drought serious enough they'll have the army fly in water bottles for everyone. I bet that will cost more than a desalination plant.
I read a pretty good book on water issues: Water 4.0:

Water 4.0: The Past, Present, and Future of the World's Most Vital Resource


David Sedlak, author of Water 4.0, is a Professor in the Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering at UC Berkeley. He is an authority on the development of new technologies for providing secure sources of water for cities and for employing natural systems to improve water quality. He lives with family in Berkeley, California.

He lives in my town! It's pretty good book. Of course, a desalination plant will have a limited output. To fully supply what California would like in terms of water that rain/snow doesn't would take a lot of plants. We're talking some major projects here!

A more used modern way of handling water shortages is recycling waste water. The book explains that a lot.
 

jmagg

Golden Member
Nov 21, 2001
1,837
238
106
Its been very dry here in upstate ny (in my area) for the last few years. I'm on a well, and while the water is great, there is constant concern and conservation. We've had nearly 14 inches of rain in this July, so life is good.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
9,485
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Can someone explain why California hasn’t move to desalination plants. I want to be clear I am no expert in the subject but I do know they are possible. Sort of remember a new type being tested from years ago and California was worried about sucking in too many fish but that can’t be the reason it is holding it up.
Here's a real quick read: https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-water-scarcity-increases-desalination-plants-are-on-the-rise
Aside from direct damage to aquatic life, there's the issue of very high energy consumption and the environmental impacts of pumping the briny wastewater back into the sea (in very large quantities).
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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www.uovalor.com
Here's a real quick read: https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-water-scarcity-increases-desalination-plants-are-on-the-rise
Aside from direct damage to aquatic life, there's the issue of very high energy consumption and the environmental impacts of pumping the briny wastewater back into the sea (in very large quantities).
Why can't they just use the sun to evaporate the water, no need to use energy to generate heat, when these places already get tons of sun. There is probably a market to use the actual salt too so no need to dump it back in the ocean.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,838
641
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CA would rather steal it from Colorado and other western states because they feel entitled.


it rained a good bit on the 30th here. had not rained since July 27 before that. we will see if the monsoon develops like is predicted.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,034
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117 degrees...no rain + wild fire...(the smoke is wonderful).
or
Flash Floods and Tornadoes!

Seems like no safe place in the US.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,446
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CA would rather steal it from Colorado and other western states because they feel entitled.
The history of water wars in the West is staggering. You'd never believe it. Here's the read:

Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water

 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
6,347
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You can make do without oil. Water, not so much.
1%er countries can make without oil for transportation in the somewhat near future. The less endowed or those subject to political corruption and thus collective theft(like Nigeria) can not afford more expensive renewables and their infrastructure isn’t even ready yet.
Oil is a key component of most food production and shipment for the collective.

Plus, those in third world countries live on crappy grids and often use generator power fueled by gas or diesel.

Pharma makes drug, of which someis for mental health.

In places like the Southwest, properties far in the desert can have water shipped to the location for a fee, and that probably comes in a diesel truck, although maybe in the future, such transportation will be electric.

Oil pumps up the property values of rural land because it facilitates commuting, this allowing cities to pursue revenue and shove people out by gentrification. In the future, the EV may suffice for cheap affordable transport for the low income masses, but oil is what allows this to happen here and now.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
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Thanks, not sure I agree with the summary.
I know water is precious in CA, seems they should start figuring this out imo.
That's just a real quick take. Not really an area I've spent much reading on. Watched a documentary and some YT science videos on it. I think there are currently something like 15K de-sal plants in the world right now (well, that might be 2019 data). Like everything, ramping up in the western world is a bureaucratic nightmare, and securing the funding that will carry this risk isn't easy to find.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
9,485
3,951
136
Why can't they just use the sun to evaporate the water, no need to use energy to generate heat, when these places already get tons of sun. There is probably a market to use the actual salt too so no need to dump it back in the ocean.
I think current development efforts are in the direction of evaporating off the left over brine into salt (+minerals). There are markets, and even if those aren't enough, salt can be buried and stored (so long as it's done right so it won't wind up in fresh water aquifers).
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
85,698
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I think current development efforts are in the direction of evaporating off the left over brine into salt (+minerals). There are markets, and even if those aren't enough, salt can be buried and stored (so long as it's done right so it won't wind up in fresh water aquifers).
People have been collecting salt by dyking sea water and let the water evaporate for millenias. Catch that water vapour with a plastic film and troughs. Done.
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
9,485
3,951
136
People have been collecting salt by dyking sea water and let the water evaporate. Catch that water vapour with a plastic film and troughs. Done.
Can we still use words like 'dyking' anymore? I got in trouble a while back over a pair of pliers.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
85,698
9,723
126
I think current development efforts are in the direction of evaporating off the left over brine into salt (+minerals). There are markets, and even if those aren't enough, salt can be buried and stored (so long as it's done right so it won't wind up in fresh water aquifers).
Or spread it over area of ocean suffering desalination.
 

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