YAJT: Let go after four days of the job. Everything seemed fine... What do I ask my boss tomorrow morning? *long*

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Give me your opinions and thoughts on what to ask this asshat tomorrow, when I return the VM he left me tonight laying out my having been laid off from the company.

Bear in mind that this has quite literally come out of the freakin' blue; this is the first job that has actually GIVEN me energy the first week of work instead of sapping it from me, and kept me in a good mood too. I'm generally a pretty nervous and anxious person in new social settings, so for me to be this comfortable this soon with new people has been quite an achievement for me, and it seems like it all came naturally too; I haven't had to force any smiles, kiss any asses, or any of the general hogswaddle that comes along with beginning new jobs sometimes.

'The Company' - A technical consulting and service corporation owned by the older of two brothers, whose second-hand man is his younger sibling, both of whom are in their mid 30's, and it's been around for four years, give or take. They do everything from home visits for those who can afford to step up from The Geek Squad (read: VIP's and Corp Execs in high-income areas) to full network & technology infrastructure building/design/installation/support for small and mid-sized companies/corporations including custom backup solutions, databases and any associated proprietary applications, security, and sustained support solutions, scheduled or appointment based.

They are the only employees of the company, aside from one lower level technician type whom they hired on from PT contract to FT W2 just about the same time they hired me, however, they have a large, mainly word-of mouth generated, friendly, high-class sort of client base.

Me, I?m an IT professional, and have been for over five years. I have a decent résumé, one that some might call impressive, for a 23-year kid, with IBM, Siemens, and a couple other well-known companies on it, spanning a gamut of knowledge and experience that I can verifiably back up with my A+/Network+ and MCSA 2000/2003 certifications.

Under almost all circumstances, I dress and act professionally and with the utmost courtesy, yet all the while being able to read how people react to me and/or my actions, and adapting as necessary to a given social situation, whether it may be through dropping a joke or politely opening a door for someone.


Anyways...

- Phone interview (part technical, part feeler) for a network/server consultant/engineer position about a month ago; goes extremely well.

- In-person interview & informal lunch following shortly after with the two brothers in the company goes very well too. Chemistry is there between personalities, my skills and experience are a great match for the position that they're filling, as is my location, professional image, etc... (They confirmed this after I was hired Monday, when we relaxed a bit and I asked the owner straight out why he picked me instead of one of the other candidates.) No alcohol involved in this lunch.

- Two-three weeks later (they're busy guys), i'm offered the position. The initial pay rate was a bit lower than a position of this stature would nominally command, as the hiring was done through a contracting agency as a loose, open-ended temp-to-perm opportunity with the expectation of being hired on as an employee in 3-6 months at a higher rate. They wanted to do the hiring themselves, but they're fans of outsourcing smaller non-IT tasks, and the lead headhunter is a friend of theirs.

- The two brothers are/were genuinely looking to grow their company further, and are/were looking for employees that they think can A: help substantiate new ideas and opportunities for change and evolution, B: have the vision and ability to do so on a regular basis, and most firmly, C: help establish standards and regulations within as many of the current and future client sites as possible to help further the client relationships, establish more uniformity, and generally, simplify the procedures behind supporting these clients.,

'The Company' already has in place, for it's own productivity, a reasonably well organized (and very well designed/implemented) technology-driven infrastructure for keeping track of time spent, expenses, client billing, et al.

- Mon-Thurs this week, I spent (almost consistently on-time or very close to it) meeting with either of the brothers @ their homes or sporadic Paneras (free Wi-Fi, used copiously by them for remote connections to their "office" network for it's resources, and to clients networks for small tasks), and then driving out to client's sites for a variety of IT tasks, but mostly lower level stuff, at most, something that somebody fresh out of getting their A+ certification could tackle head on without screwing up.

- Wednesday night, after an unsuccessful attempt to hold a meeting in a library conference room to further discuss the goals/aspirations/direction of the company, myself, the two brothers, and the other part time technician go out to dinner, on the bosses. We shoot the sh|t, rip on the tech for being a White Sox fan (Go Cubs!), have some great Mexican food, and let loose a bit, which we hadn?t had the chance to do previously, because of all our busy schedules. None of us had more than two drinks, but we definitely all relaxed and I thought we had a fun night getting to know each other better.

- Thurs night. As usual, I?m waiting on a phone call to find out where I?m working the next day. I get a VM from the ?lead? brother, my boss by all practical means, stating in essence, ?I?m sorry to have to do this? blah blah? you don?t seem to have the higher level server administration experience that we were looking for in the role that you were supposed to fill.?

Hold the phone, chump, I haven?t even DONE ANY SERVER ADMINISTRATION!!! I?ve been employed with you for four freakin? days!

Checking the event viewer for the last month and looking for anything out of place? Creating a new backup schedule in Veritas? Learning the in?s and out?s of the software ?The Company? uses to track time/expenses and generate invoices? Sitting in Panera and listening to one-sided conversations you?re having on your Treo? Nah, not quite?

I didn?t do anything to my knowledge that would?ve offended or pissed any of the three off, I didn?t screw up any customers computers/servers, and in my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, I put on the best game face that I?ve ever done the first week of ANY job.

*****

Bleh, I?ve ranted enough? Sadly enough, that?s the quickest :)Q) way I could explain it while leaving all the pertinent info in.

What I want to know from anybody with an outside perspective and an attention span long enough to read this piece of sh!t, or other IT professionals who can probably sympathize with the same sort of situation, is this: What in god's name happened? Why do you think they decided to terminate my contract? After FOUR days? I didn't kill anybody's dog or screw anybody's wife... :confused:

I drove over 200 miles in four days, went to six different client sites, dragged out and eventually declined another job offer from a company that was foaming at the mouth to employ me *and* to add insult to injury, probably screwed up my chances of getting an unemployment check for this period too? All for what, one four-day paycheck for $550 or so? Boo-fvcking-urns...

Other IT pros, feel free to vent with your own stories of B$ like this in the industry too :evil:

 

mpitts

Lifer
Jun 9, 2000
14,732
1
81
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.
 

gsethi

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2002
3,457
5
81
you drank too much at the mexican place and probably said something that the brothers didnt like ? that or they just dont like you anymore :(

s
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Originally posted by: gsethi
you drank too much at the mexican place and probably said something that the brothers didnt like ? that or they just dont like you anymore :(

s

Two pints, but enough chips, salsa, guacamole, fish, rice, cheese, and beans to choke twenty elephants? Nah-ah :-

I even picked something cheaper on the menu (not dirt cheap) so they wouldn't think I was trying to get a free dinner out of them or anything.

TANSTAAFL
 

DukeN

Golden Member
Dec 12, 1999
1,422
0
76
Sorry to hear that dude. Seems like its a really small operation and the two brothers decided against spending $ to expand. Probably better investing your energy elsewhere, all the best.
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Yeah, I figure depending on how the conversation goes, that'll most likely be mentioned in the form of a low-blow towards the end of it...
 

mpitts

Lifer
Jun 9, 2000
14,732
1
81
And FYI, I am in basically the exact same field as you and the owners of this company.
 

mpitts

Lifer
Jun 9, 2000
14,732
1
81
Originally posted by: evilsaint
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Yeah, I figure depending on how the conversation goes, that'll most likely be mentioned in the form of a low-blow towards the end of it...

Be sure to finish the conversation with a hardy "White Sox suck".

I personally wouldn't worry about burning bridges with them. Going forward, I wouldn't work with someone like this.
 

LS20

Banned
Jan 22, 2002
5,858
0
0
sounds like they dont have any management skills

sounds like when i was 17, getting pulled from walmart after a week, to work a pretzel stand inside the walmart for another week, coming in friday to find out nexts week schedule and finding out they wont exist the next week..and never getting paid for the previous week
 

Alprazolam

Senior member
Oct 8, 2005
465
0
0
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: evilsaint
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Yeah, I figure depending on how the conversation goes, that'll most likely be mentioned in the form of a low-blow towards the end of it...

Be sure to finish the conversation with a hardy "White Sox suck".

I personally wouldn't worry about burning bridges with them. Going forward, I wouldn't work with someone like this.

When was the last time the CUBS won the World Series? OR HAD A WINNING RECORD? KTHANKSBYE!
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
I had something sort of like this happen to me right when I was starting out. I had no experience and was still in college, got offered a PC tech position with a rather insultingly low pay rate at a local company that I had known about since I was like 13. I knew they had grown pretty considerably since then, because there offices had expanded a lot and they were offering higher end IT services.

This was right around the time of the dot com mega dump, and even with the crummy pay it was a much better option then working in a grocery store. Additionally it would give me some experience so I took it.

I only ended up working there for like 2 months before they laid me off. The writing was on the wall the whole time. Most of the techs were sitting on their asses because there wasn't any work to do, myself included. I was quickly shuffled into a job transcribing 10 year old paper work orders into the new system. I went to meetings where the company talked about managing it debt problems. I even heard some one say that the service center (that I was a part of) was a big money loser for them.

At the time, I didn't really expect to be laid off. I had just assumed that the managers weren't so stupid that they would have hired me for no reason to staff a dying already overstaffed department. I to this day have no idea why they advertised for the job in the first place, much less hired me to fill it. The company folded about a year later and its assets were bought out. I can't even get the good reference from them I was promised because virtually all the staff I worked closely disappeared and the one guy who worked in the same department thats still there says he doesn't remember me.

It was far enough into the summer at that point I couldn't even find a decent brain dead job, and I got stuck working at a grocery store.

Your story is definately worse though, at least I didn't have any other prospects to turn down. Plus, I was still screwing around in college then.
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Originally posted by: Alprazolam
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: evilsaint
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Yeah, I figure depending on how the conversation goes, that'll most likely be mentioned in the form of a low-blow towards the end of it...

Be sure to finish the conversation with a hardy "White Sox suck".

I personally wouldn't worry about burning bridges with them. Going forward, I wouldn't work with someone like this.

When was the last time the CUBS won the World Series? OR HAD A WINNING RECORD? KTHANKSBYE!

This is Anandtech, not the World of Warcraft forums. I'm sure that being a White Sox fan doesn't entitle you to much intelligence, but try to post in the right place next time.
 

doze

Platinum Member
Jul 26, 2005
2,786
0
0
The red flag to me is that these guys have no office and wanted to schedule a meeting at the library. My guess is that they hired you then lost a big client or two or realized they can get somebody else for cheaper

Sux bro
 

dquan97

Lifer
Jul 9, 2002
12,010
3
0
Sounds like they felt like they needed another employee without fully examining what their needs were. Sorry to hear about it though.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Originally posted by: doze
The red flag to me is that these guys have no office and wanted to schedule a meeting at the library. My guess is that they hired you then lost a big client or two or realized they can get somebody else for cheaper

Sux bro


Yeap, red flags galore

Red flag #1 small upstart company run by two brothers #2 temp to perm BS and their bud it the recruiter:confused: #3 you spent most of the first four days in BS meetings in their HOUSE #4 and the kiss of death, they scheduled a meeting in a public freakin library!

You'll be lucky if your $500 check clears. Live and learn and don't make these mistakes again. Don't bother even calling these fvcks, I would even consider calling on the clients that you met and tell them if they want some real service call you and ditch tweedle dee and tweedle dum.
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
I don't see the problem of meeting at their house... what's wrong w/ a home office? I would think their type of work wouldn't need it much... it's all on the job pretty much.

But meeting at library's... yeah... that seems iffy. And being let go by VM? that's just one step above email...
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
81
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Originally posted by: doze
The red flag to me is that these guys have no office and wanted to schedule a meeting at the library. My guess is that they hired you then lost a big client or two or realized they can get somebody else for cheaper

Sux bro


Yeap, red flags galore

Red flag #1 small upstart company run by two brothers #2 temp to perm BS and their bud it the recruiter:confused: #3 you spent most of the first four days in BS meetings in their HOUSE #4 and the kiss of death, they scheduled a meeting in a public freakin library!

You'll be lucky if your $500 check clears. Live and learn and don't make these mistakes again. Don't bother even calling these fvcks, I would even consider calling on the clients that you met and tell them if they want some real service call you and ditch tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

Agreed. My only experience with a small upstart has led me to conclude that I'll never work for one again. Late checks, lies, and confusion featured prominently in my story. If your check goes through, you came out ahead.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
156
106
I think they lost a customer and couldn't afford you any more, and were too chicken to tell you the straight story. Or they brought you on because they were going to land a new account, and it fell through. Or maybe they did land a new customer, and it turned out they needed someone with different skills for some reason. But I don't know how to explain when they could have found that out, since you were with them practically the entire four days.

If in those four days you didn't screw anything up, there wasn't any reason to let you go based on performance. That's clear. Since you pointed out you are tuned in to how people react to you, and that you handle yourself professionally, it probably had nothing to do with whatever transpired at the social get-togethers either.

And while it would be scummy, I don't think they brought you on just to see what you really knew and then decided you weren't up to par. You never had a chance to show your stuff.

This is a real puzzler. If I was you, I'd figure they are just inept in handling personnel. Perhaps they are good at the talk but poor in execution.
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Well, after not returning my calls all of Friday, I talked to the lead brother today. After wrapping up the loose ends of timesheets and BS like that, I basically just said "To be honest, this came as quite a shock to me. I didn't screw anything up, and I didn't piss off any customers... so what really happened?"...

VERY unsurprisingly, he gave me a nice, long, vague, rambling few minutes of how he "observed small but important details missing in my work", yet when I asked him in a non-confrontation way about those details so I could improve myself and my own work, he couldn't bring a single one of those details to mind. :roll:

That's what I thought buddy; thanks for NOT being honest and just using your balls to tell me what really happened... Bloody wanker...
 

Sphexi

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2005
7,280
0
0
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Sounds like you're far more professional than either of the two owners are. I agree that letting you know via a VM is pretty low, especially when you're one of only four people working at this "company". I wouldn't sweat it too much though, it sounds like you can probably still get with that other company since it hasn't been too long, or will find something else quickly.
 

DaiShan

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
9,617
1
0
Originally posted by: mpitts
There is obviously another reason that they are letting you go. Just tell them to be honest with you and to let you know the truth.

And FWIW, letting someone go through a voicemail after hiring them four days earlier is about a bush-league as it gets. I'd defintely let them know that you didn't appreciate finding out that your services were no longer needed through voicemail.

Exactly. I would NEVER terminate someone over voicemail. I don't particularly like doing it over the phone, but I at least do it in real time. I've let employees go after a few days time, sometimes you can tell it just isn't gonna work out.

I recently had to let someone go after 6 days. They interviewed very well, they had completed a few certs and were on track to complete a few more, and seemed to have very strong trouble-shooting skills. (successfully answered all of the technical scenarios posed in the interview)

First day in the office he couldn't add an email address to Outlook. No big deal, not everyone has used it so I stepped him through it. 30 minutes later I had him do it again and he needed help so I had him write down the procedure. The next day I was off and I got a phone call asking me how to add an email address again, he said that he tried everything on his notes but couldn't get it. The CEO ended up bailing him out that time, but no matter how strong his trouble-shooting skills are, if you can't do the day to day responsibilities of your job without significant assistance you're gonna need to find a new position. I'd at least expect him to fake his way through and google the important parts rather than call me with every little issue that comes up.

It doesn't sound like this was the case with you OP, but your boss may feel like you might need too much supervision at present to reduce his workload enough to justify your position. Just a thought from a manager's perspective.


/edit do they even have an office? Never saw an answer in the post. If not and they are strictly "On-Site" they may have realized adding another employee might require they rent some office space, which may have been an expenditure that they weren't ready to make. Just a shot in the dark though, sounds like you're better off not working there anyways.
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Getting an office is one of their top priorities, and it was still one even before they hired myself and the other tech.

And truth be told, I think they only really had me shadowing either of the brothers at the start to get my face known in their more frequently visited clients. Most of the time I was either watching over somebodies shoulder as they did something that I was perfectly capable of, or relegated to handling one of the simpler tasks at a site with multiple issue that they had to fix or look into.
 

evilsaint

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2006
1,364
1
91
Last update... Just heard back from the recruiter(s), and they didn't find out until after I did, even. It only really cements the fact in my mind that the brothers just don't have the balls to tell anybody why they couldn't keep me on...