YAJT: Interviewed for a position that pays substantially less than state ave. WWYD?

[Ruptga]

Do the math to determine how much you need to make to survive and pay all your bills, then add about 10-20%, and counter with that amount. I'd guess that's around 12-15/hr, but everyone's different.

In the strictest sense, it doesn't matter what anyone else makes, that's just a reference point. What you need is to pay your bills and have enough extra that you can have some fun and build up enough reserves so you aren't wiped out by a car repair bill, or whatever. Anything beyond that is just gravy, but not something you should risk a job negotiation over. Anything below that is committing to slow starvation.

 

[DrPizza]

You didn't say in which state. There are probably some states that with a bachelor's degree in physics, you could get a teaching position making significantly more. Benefit: typically, physics students want to be in that class; you rarely have to deal with unruly students.

$8.50? That's pretty laughable. As far as the resume, I'm not really all that certain that it does sound significantly better than pizza delivery guy. There's probably slightly more to it, but installing radios sounds like a job for a relatively smart high school kid - physics B.S. not required. Though, the company may have looked for someone with a degree, given the importance of getting it right in this particular application, thus necessitating being certain that the person you hire isn't an idiot.

To kind of play of CPA's experience, at least his first job used his accounting skills. Your new position would sort of be like him getting a job sorting mail in the mail room of an accounting firm.

 

[Imp]

Ohh yeah....after you prove yourself and get another job offer somewhere else, they may see you pull your weight and decide to pay you what you're worth to stick around. Just something to consider. When I left the job I mentioned earlier, I was offered a decent raise to stay. I didn't see the industry as a safe place to work long-term (we had layoffs frequently), so I moved on.

I'd take offense to that... So, you've been underpaying me then for the entire time I've been here up until 5 minutes ago? You didn't do anything when you realized I was "worth it," but now that your ass is on the line, I'm suddenly worth more?

 

[arkcom]

Thanks, for the advice guys. This is the third serious thread I've made recently and it's nice to know atot is not all about pointy elbows and ttiwwop.

Anyway a bit of an update, I've decided against the company in the op.

I applied to/ interviewed /accepted (all within 2 days) a 60 day temp to hire position at a high-mix low volume electronics assembly company. I'll be a solder technician at $10 an hour. The manager was impressed with my resume and implied that when hired full time I could move up fairly quickly. Pretty much everyone at the plant starts in this position from temp agencies.

Minutes after signing the paperwork I got a call from the plant manager at another place that I applied at. I'd be a plant operator at a pilot plant that makes ethanol out of waste biomass. It pays $15 and is permanent from day 1. I know these positions get promoted because this is what the plant manager started as after he got his chemical engineering degree.

So, anybody have any idea what kind of pay bump if any to expect from the electronics company when I go full time? The thing that is keeping this from being an obvious choice, is that I'd eventually rather be an electrical engineer than a biochemical engineer. The initial work would probably be less boring at the chemical plant, however. Would you take 50% more pay now, regardless?

 

[Ruptga]

I have a fair bit of experience with temp agencies and my opinion's pretty negative. They won't ALL be this way of course, but in my experience this

The manager was impressed with my resume and implied that when hired full time I could move up fairly quickly. Pretty much everyone at the plant starts in this position from temp agencies.

happens a LOT, and is really just a line they feed people to keep them on the $10/hr hook as long as possible. Again, they may be an exception, especially if that 60 days thing is in whatever you signed and isn't merely "up to your supervisor's discretion after 60 days" or some other BS.

 

[Fayd]

Minutes after signing the paperwork I got a call from the plant manager at another place that I applied at. I'd be a plant operator at a pilot plant that makes ethanol out of waste biomass. It pays $15 and is permanent from day 1. I know these positions get promoted because this is what the plant manager started as after he got his chemical engineering degree.

that's 1000x more relevant to a physics BS than 'guy with a solder gun'.

did you not get any internships in your undergrad? tech firms hire physics BS's to some extent. typically the physics discipline requires some programming knowledge, you could leverage that (and mathematical/statistical knowledge) into a financial sector programming gig. (i work in financial sector. There are a LOT of physics/engineering degrees around here.)

honestly, i'm not sure why you would even consider an $8 gig. (actually, i know, i was in a similar place until i went back for my master's...).

the process operator gig can work well. a friend of mine is a process operator for a refinery in texas... after overtime, he pulls 125~ k/year, at 28.

 

[arkcom]

They won't ALL be this way of course, but in my experience this happens a LOT, and is really just a line they feed people to keep them on the $10/hr hook as long as possible.

The manager seemed pretty sincere, saying his main concern with bringing me on was that I would be bored. I think as soon as I talked to the temp agency, his hands were tied as far a giving me a different position before the 60 days is up. At least without paying some kind of big fee. I'm not really sure why they even used them, do did literally nothing besides post a couple sentence craigslist add.

did you not get any internships in your undergrad?

Nope. Between the lack of a career services department, the general assumption that all physics majors will continue school, and my own ignorance the thought never even crossed my mind until it was too late.

I also bought / renoed / managed something like a boarding house while in school, so I was somewhat busy and thought I would be in the real estate business forever.

As far as programming/ financial positions. I have no connections whatsoever. I've basically been a shut-in for 5+ years, while selling electric bike kits online.

On a side note, now that I've pretty much shut my defunct business down, I got a call from a bike shop that wants to buy 30+ kits a year 6 at a time. I probably haven't sold 30 kits in the last 3 years.

 

[Ns1]

$15hr/perm > 10hr/temp

 

[JEDIYoda]

If they were wanting someone long term they wouldn't be starting a person with a bs in physics at $17k.

Having a BS in Physics amounts to having a BA or a BS in Psychology.....sad but true....

No experience, just out of school = crappy job in your field....

 

[jlee]

I would take the 50% raise immediately.

 

[rockyct]

That

and that

If you really need the money, take it, then ditch them the second you're offered something that pays a livable wage. Don't even think about feeling bad about it; an employer that expects their people to live long term on that kind of money isn't worth any regrets, they're either completely out of touch with reality or massive assholes.

Seriously. They can say they want a long term employee, but they are paying like they want a revolving door of cheap workers. I would leave and never look back even if it were just six months. If they got tired of being used as a stepping stone, they would pay more. It's as simple as that. The plant operator sounds like the best situation even though it doesn't sound like the most ideal career path for you.

 

[Ruptga]

$15hr/perm > 10hr/temp

Sincere or no, the above applies. Plus process technician should be a step or two above peon, which is where you'd be starting with the soldering thing. When people are looking for good people, the quality and level of the work is often more important than the specific field, especially if they already have some credentials in the field. You'd still be able to move into electrical later.

 

[arkcom]

To use HR lingo I have probably the widest but shallowest set of skills and knowledge there is. I can do a little bit of everything... kindof. Example at bottom of this post.

Having a BS in Physics amounts to having a BA or a BS in Psychology.....sad but true....

No experience, just out of school = crappy job in your field....

It's kind of depressing that a relatively difficult degree is also relatively useless.

I would take the 50% raise immediately.

That's what I'm leaning towards. Especially after reading online the raise when going permanent is not that much in general. You also have no leverage to negotiate because they can just tell you to get lost.

On another side note, I got an educational copy of Autodesk Inventor earlier this week and started playing around. After years of using sketchup, it's amazing.

 

[jlee]

To use HR lingo I have probably the widest but shallowest set of skills and knowledge there is. I can do a little bit of everything... kindof. Example at bottom of this post.



It's kind of depressing that a relatively difficult degree is also relatively useless.



That's what I'm leaning towards. Especially after reading online the raise when going permanent is not that much in general. You also have no leverage to negotiate because they can just tell you to get lost.

On another side note, I got an educational copy of Autodesk Inventor earlier this week and started playing around. After years of using sketchup, it's amazing.

Yeah, I would grab the highest paying job you can get right now just to get some income rolling in - then start looking for what you really want to do. That extra $5/hr is $866/mo at 40 hours a week.

 

[arkcom]

Yeah, I would grab the highest paying job you can get right now just to get some income rolling in - then start looking for what you really want to do. That extra $5/hr is $866/mo at 40 hours a week.

If I were making atot money, it might be worth it to give up $5 an hour to do the job you want. $10/hr is not atot money.

 

[arkcom]

Finished my first week at the electronics place. Started a couple notches lower than "guy with a soldering iron". Spent the last five days swaging turrets... it takes a bit less skill than mopping floors.

Think I will go elsewhere and/or go back to school asap.

 

[Ruptga]

I hate to say I told you so, but, uhm...

 

[arkcom]

I hate to say I told you so, but, uhm...

Haven't been offered the other position yet. Just interviewed on Tuesday. It turned out to be a much smaller operation that I thought, with only 2 operators and a shift supervisor on at a time. Mostly consists of putting grass in a hopper and poking it with a stick if it gets stuck on the conveyor belt (he literally said that as he was showing me the place). Plant manager said my resume was "different" than who he normally hires.
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Maybe I'm up against some kind of preconception that degree = management.
Another place I applied to had two listings, "quality inspector" and "production scheduler," I applied to the first. Got a call from the owner to interview for the production scheduler position. Told him actually I was interested in the quality inspector position. He says, "You know that's not a management position, right?"

Maybe I should set my sights higher... I have also applied to positions that specify AS or BS in Physics with no interest, so I don't really know.

 

[Ruptga]

Expectations are all over the place. Some people want you to have a degree before you even touch a broom, some people think degrees are for the management track. If you're looking for hands-on work the second group will think something's wrong with you since you're underachieving. If you're looking for higher level stuff the first group will just laugh because you don't have any experience. There is no one right way to do things.