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YAJT: Department down to 2

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
I won't bore you with details, so lets get down to the cliffs.

1. I work for an IT Department which consists of System Analyst's.. We trouble shoot, and do various tasks, but mainly work on the system and various projects on improving it...

2. When firstly hired last year, we were 4 strong. 3 employee's 1 incompetent boss.

3. Couple months later, we were 5 strong.

4. Month later, 4 strong, and a very shaky department. (no real management at all. Morale, Incentive, and Motivation all going down hill.)

5. Fast forward to today, and 1 of them just decided to retire, and the other 1 quit to find something better.

After today, this department will consist of myself, and my boss. My boss, who I mentioned is an idiot, hired two candidates who I believe are not at all qualified for this position. They don't even have a school degree or anything. That leaves me to believe I will be having my hands full on training them, holding their hand, and teaching them the ropes, ontop of the priority projects I am given which seems to be piling up as we speak.

June review is here and I am suppose to get evaluated along with a pay-rate raise. Under these circumstances, do you think a 10% or more pay-rate raise is appropiate? What would you do? What would you ask for? I need the general public's input from what you've just read. Thank you.

danny~!
 

j00fek

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2005
8,099
1
0
10% id go for 20% for the traing etc anf more workload since your are the last9one left with any knowlege of the said facilities. good luck
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
I am in almost the exact same situation, but it doesn't look like I am going to get a promotion even though my boss has written to admin about it.

I am the only one doing the projects right now. If I left, things would be bad for them. I am getting so many projects; some which are not supposed to be done by only one person (me). (They have had a contract company <a group of 3-40 people> work on a system for 3-5 years now, and now they want me to do it because the contract company isn't producing results)

Government :roll:
 

altonb1

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2002
6,433
0
71
To get a substantial raise, you will probably have to look for a new employer. unfortunately, most jobs are not going to give you a huge raise in this circumstance. good luck, though.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
Originally posted by: altonb1
To get a substantial raise, you will probably have to look for a new employer. unfortunately, most jobs are not going to give you a huge raise in this circumstance. good luck, though.
I would think it would be the opposite, as I am the last remaining employee that has knowledge behind the system. I would think they would shower me with gifts, because if I leave, I can almost guarantee you this department and the boss that runs it will lose all confidence and would become a joke in the company.
 

pclstyle

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2004
2,364
0
0
what's normal for your department/field? 6%?

i would say management in general gets nervous when double-digits come out. You're probably far more likely to be successful in your request if you're looking for 9%. opinion, obviously.


several people within the company i work for are facing similar situations. departments thin out to the point where there's just one or two core individuals, versus when they opened the year with 6-8. Even management moves around, and things get hectic and messy. However, none of them received more than a 7% increase (from what i hear), which is already considered significant in comparison to the typical 3-5%. Keep in mind these are scientists, individuals with masters and ph'ds, at a level where they aren't easily replaced.

I don't know too much about the IT field, but unless you have an excellent relationship with your boss, you should probably tread carefully. However, definitely bring up your points about training and how much the workload will obviously be shifted on to your shoulders, at least for the time being. You can bet that the two new-hires have promised your boss any number of goals that will be accomplished, etc - so don't push too hard or bet as if your time with the company is the end-all of all bargaining chips.
 

pclstyle

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: j00fek
10% id go for 20% for the traing etc anf more workload since your are the last9one left with any knowlege of the said facilities. good luck
lol.

20% might work if you are making $8.00 an hour.

But it doesn't play so well if you're making 85k+ a year.
 

pclstyle

Platinum Member
Apr 14, 2004
2,364
0
0
Originally posted by: DannyLove
Originally posted by: altonb1
To get a substantial raise, you will probably have to look for a new employer. unfortunately, most jobs are not going to give you a huge raise in this circumstance. good luck, though.
I would think it would be the opposite, as I am the last remaining employee that has knowledge behind the system. I would think they would shower me with gifts, because if I leave, I can almost guarantee you this department and the boss that runs it will lose all confidence and would become a joke in the company.
that's the attitude that well get you let go in a heartbeat. no single person is invaluable to a company. founders, ceo's/cfo's/cto's get switched in and out in the blink of an eye. you're even more likely to be released, because at your level they probably don't even have to bother with a compensation package, etc.

you shouldn't see yourself as being the only one who can possibly understand the complexities of the system, nor see your skills as one of a kind. Anyone with enough willingness, hell even just the need for a job and a paycheck, can pick up where you left off in far less time than you'd like to admit.

care to wager on it? when it comes time for your review, go ahead and threaten, berate, do whatever in your attempt to get management to see what a necessity you are to the company. there are dozens of people out there just itching to take your place, no matter what your position is, and you'd be surprised at the hits they'd take (less pay, more overtime) to do it. update us after your review.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
pclstyle, thing is, it took this company a long time and a lot of interviews to even hire 1-2 people. And speaking to my boss, he never enjoyed it and never found anyone exactly qualified for the position. I'm not about to jepordize my job either. I know there are people out there willing to work, but from what I've seen, those numbers are extremely stretched thin. I guess I know this company enough. I won't threaten or beat my chest either, that's just silly.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
5,464
371
126
In all honesty, don't pull the "I am going to leave if I don't get my way" card. If I were in charge, I would rather let you leave than having that card hanging over my head. If you pull that card once, what's going to prevent you from pulling that card again in the future? In some cases, that would work but I don't see you have enough leverage to be honest to do it in your situation. Trust me, it doesn't take long for a competent consultant to come in and figure out whatever system you may have familarized yourself. Sure it will cost them money up front, but in the long run it saves them money. If you are unhappy with your job, leave on that term.

 

2Dead

Senior member
Feb 19, 2005
886
1
81
perhaps it is time to atleast start looking for another job yourself. If you already see things going downhill, you don't have to wait for it to become unbearable. You might find another job with a 10 or 20% pay increase but I wouldn't count on a raise like that... unless you get promoted in the process like group leader/supervisor.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
Just an update for those that care:

My 10% was denied....
I tried to jusitfy it, but what came out was more of grievances and frustration about how the company is being runned.
They granted me a 4.5% and basically turned the tables around and said my "negative" attitude is not exactly welcomed. There really is more to it then that, but anyways, I am given a week to decide whether or not to continue to work here or leave.

Poor Management sucks..... what sucks even more is, they rather point the fingers to employee then change management. 4 employees will be gone in under a year, yet my boss claims to think it is "our" problem, and not management.....

a big F U to him.

danny~!
 

BooGiMaN

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
7,955
0
0
id look around for another job..it looks like they have labeled you as an employee with a bad attitude..possible a trouble maker....so now your incompetent boss can more easily blame things on you, when things go wrong

i wouldnt be surprised if your work, actions and attitude are under a microscope now, they might even be actively looking to replace you...be prepared
 

AStar617

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2002
4,983
0
0
Can't say I'm surprised by the update. In 99% of cases, arguing for large raises is a waste of time. Either give them an outside salary offer to match/beat, or fall back in line. I'm in a similar situation myself and will continue to do my duty until I am in a position to make them make a hardline decision, with a offer letter in hand and a resignation letter in my pocket just in case.

Unfortunately, on the large scale, employees tend to need employers and not vice versa.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
I CAN buy myself some time and simply tell them what they want to hear to extend my time here while I look for another job.......
It would be hard to sell if they find me taking "sick days" off to setup with interviews....
I'm so frustrated with this position that I don't even think a weeks worth of waiting is enough. I want to leave now.... but I do have to think of the financial situation I will be on.

I would agree with you AStar, but this company isn't that large in scale. Its rather med-size then anything and with people dropping like flies all the time in this department, its actually the other way around. Unfortunately, this company doesn't care too much for their employees and would rather cut their losses then to take the blame on a management level.

Be warned, this is a very traditional company, owners being the founders and their son's and best buddies all at the top making the great decisions. I certainly won't be interested in these kinds of companies anymore, especially since IT = change, and these guys fear change...

danny~!
 

Rage187

Lifer
Dec 30, 2000
14,276
4
81
diplomas and school mean squat in the IT world. I'd rather hire a person with experience.

The only thing you learn in school is bad habits that you will have to unlearn to function in the industry.
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
Originally posted by: Rage187
diplomas and school mean squat in the IT world. I'd rather hire a person with experience.

The only thing you learn in school is bad habits that you will have to unlearn to function in the industry.
very true.... but compare my degree with some fool who's been a instructor for CompUSA............ says it all right about there.
 

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