YAIPT: Yet another Israeli / Palestinean thread...

[gopunk]

<<

<< I've already said that the Jewish Israeli's have already lived there and owned the state of Israel for over 3000 years. There was no palestine before that. >>



You need to brush up on your history. The turks controlled the area about 700 years ago up until WW1 when the British took over, then they handed it over for a Jewish state after WW2. >>




i've been brushing up

looks like what we really need to do is find the canaanites and give it back to them.

no, seriously capn, i think what he was referring to was the israelites, who took over the region in 1000BC

 

[NetworkDad]

<<

<< I've already said that the Jewish Israeli's have already lived there and owned the state of Israel for over 3000 years. There was no palestine before that. >>



You need to brush up on your history. The turks controlled the area about 700 years ago up until WW1 when the British took over, then they handed it over for a Jewish state after WW2. >>




The Jewish people has lived in the land of Israel for about 3000 years, and only they have ever had a sovereign state there. Even under the years of Byzantine, Arab and Turkish rule, there was a continuous Jewish presence. There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since the l840's.

 

[Czar]

<< I've already said that the Jewish Israeli's have already lived there and owned the state of Israel for over 3000 years. There was no palestine before that. >>


So dont the Indians own the US sinse and shouldnt all the European and all the other immigrants just leave because the land belongs to the Indians? The fact is that those people live there, both the "europeans" in the US and the Palestinians in "Israel/Palestine", they cant be removed and they should not be forced to leave.
Before the zionist movement started there were around 50.000 Jewish people living on the land, while around 500.000 muslims were living there.

http://www.mideastweb.org/palearly.htm
Shouldnt then Isreal draw back to its original borders?

 

[NetworkDad]

More facts about israel:

The Arabs of Palestine had no historical, national or cultural identity distinct from other Arabs of the region. The term Palestinian almost never carried its present meaning until the l960's, even for Arabs. Arabs even denied that there was any such country as Palestine. (E.g. Ahmed Shukairy, later chairman of the PLO, to the Security Council in 1956: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."|)

In 1947, the UN decided to split the remaining part of Palestine between Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted this, because it would lead to a Jewish state, although in a very much smaller area than they had been promised. The Arabs refused, because they wanted the whole of Palestine for themselves. They immediately began hostilities against the Jewish inhabitants.

The UN's record against Israel:
175 Total Resolutions
74 Neutral
4 Against the perceived interests of an Arab state or body
97 Against Israel

In 1964, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was set up by Egypt with the express object of recapturing the whole of Palestine for the Arabs. (This was of course before the "West Bank" came under Israeli control.) The PLO Charter calling for the destruction of Israel has still not been amended.

 

[Random Variable]

I've said this before, but the Jews (and exclusively the Jews) that were living in historical Palestine during the first half of the 20th century were called "the Palestinians."

EDIT: So basically the Israelis used to be the Palestinians.

 

[etech]

Czar, after WWII did Germany lose land to the people who it had attacked? Note the Poland area.

Did the Arab countries attack Israel?

 

[Capn]

<< The Jewish people has lived in the land of Israel for about 3000 years, and only they have ever had a sovereign state there. Even under the years of Byzantine, Arab and Turkish rule, there was a continuous Jewish presence. There has been a Jewish majority in Jerusalem since the l840's. >>



I never said jews didn't live there. But to say they owned the land for the last 3000 years is incorrect. Your point that Jew's have had a majority in Jerusalem since the 1840's only proves that someone else had a majority before them.

Do they own the land now? Yes, that's all that matters, historical revisionism aside.

 

[gopunk]

just found this blurb in encarta:



<< In 1993, after decades of violent conflict between Palestinians and Israelis, leaders from each side agreed to the signing of an historic peace accord. Palestine Liberation Organization leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin met in the United States on September 13, 1993, to witness the signing of the agreement. The plan called for limited Palestinian self-rule in Israeli-occupied territories, beginning with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho. Palestinian administration of these areas began in 1994. In September 1995 the PLO and Israel signed a second peace accord, expanding limited Palestinian self-rule to almost all Palestinian towns and refugee camps in the West Bank. Under the agreements, Israel maintains the right to send armed forces into Palestinian areas and controls the areas between Palestinian enclaves. >>





what happened to this agreement? why is bush telling the israelis to get out when they have the right to be there?

 

[NetworkDad]

<< just found this blurb in encarta:



<< In 1993, after decades of violent conflict between Palestinians and Israelis, leaders from each side agreed to the signing of an historic peace accord. Palestine Liberation Organization leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin met in the United States on September 13, 1993, to witness the signing of the agreement. The plan called for limited Palestinian self-rule in Israeli-occupied territories, beginning with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho. Palestinian administration of these areas began in 1994. In September 1995 the PLO and Israel signed a second peace accord, expanding limited Palestinian self-rule to almost all Palestinian towns and refugee camps in the West Bank. Under the agreements, Israel maintains the right to send armed forces into Palestinian areas and controls the areas between Palestinian enclaves. >>





what happened to this agreement? why is bush telling the israelis to get out when they have the right to be there? >>



Probably something to do with him pussing out, with everyone (europe, arabs, UN) thinking this is the US's problem for not telling israel to leave.

 

[gopunk]

Probably something to do with him pussing out, with everyone (europe, arabs, UN) thinking this is the US's problem for not telling israel to leave.

hmm...

am i correct to assume, that for all intents and purposes, those agreements are worth chicken sh!t now? that's sad that it couldn't have worked out... seemed good to me.

 

[Czar]

<< Czar, after WWII did Germany lose land to the people who it had attacked? Note the Poland area.

Did the Arab countries attack Israel? >>


I think it was some land, around the Denmark/Germany border, not sure though, that peace of land has been swapping owners for hundreds of years

And yes

 

[Random Variable]

<< just found this blurb in encarta:



<< In 1993, after decades of violent conflict between Palestinians and Israelis, leaders from each side agreed to the signing of an historic peace accord. Palestine Liberation Organization leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin met in the United States on September 13, 1993, to witness the signing of the agreement. The plan called for limited Palestinian self-rule in Israeli-occupied territories, beginning with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho. Palestinian administration of these areas began in 1994. In September 1995 the PLO and Israel signed a second peace accord, expanding limited Palestinian self-rule to almost all Palestinian towns and refugee camps in the West Bank. Under the agreements, Israel maintains the right to send armed forces into Palestinian areas and controls the areas between Palestinian enclaves. >>





what happened to this agreement? why is bush telling the israelis to get out when they have the right to be there? >>


According to the United Nations, the process of returning the "occupied" territories was always supposed to be gradual and in exchange for peace with Israel. But no one cares about the past. It's all about the present.

EDIT: Basically, Israel was supposed to be in control of the process.

 

[alrocky]

Wow, a fairly civil Isreali / Palestinian thread! I had to make sure today wasn't the first of the month whilst I was reading this thread. Maybe Daylight Savings time change had some affect? I'm guessing gopunk is trying to figure out which people has a greater (historical or otherwise) claim to the land in question. Since the Palestinians have never had (as described in this thread) a recognized government/country, this tends to diminish their claim. However, under the adage that possession is nine tenths of the law, it may prove difficult to integrate the Palestinians or the land as wholly Isreali. A Palestinian Exodus may prove equally difficult since the surrounding Arab countries want nothing to do with them.

 

[gopunk]

I'm guessing gopunk<STRONG> </STRONG>is trying to figure out which people has a greater (historical or otherwise) claim to the land in question.

nah... i was just unclear on a few matters. i don't really care about who was there thousands of years ago. they should just stop being idiots... it's a damn chunk of land.