YAIHSMT (S = some, M = millenials) *rant*

[Eug]

The young millenial trainee we just got is uber keen. Has everything prepared every time we meet, and working with him is a pleasure, even if he's still very, very junior. Yeah, I have to teach a lot, but I don't mind it at all.

In contrast, we also have someone who is very experienced but just doesn't have the same drive. Often comes unprepared and takes a long time finishing stuff that should be very simple for that person, mainly because that person is old school and isn't used to the computer systems we have. I keep having to remind that person that it's not just about knowledge, but to be prepared, and to be able to use the modern tools we have. It's fine to know the final answer to something, but you look like an idiot if you don't know the details and prepared yourself for our meetings and can't work the computer.

If anything in my experience where I work I prefer getting younger graduates who are keen but who you can mold, and who are flexible to learning new techniques, etc. The older ones are set in their ways, and sometimes even take offense to us telling them what to do.

 

[Kaido]

The newish guy was told that this test plan was his primary responsibility. He's had it for 6.5 weeks and still just finished QA testing last week, which means he's just over halfway done. He's the social butterfly type - he barely warms his chair on any given day. He comes in late & leaves early. His boss had "The Talk" with him last week, but I'm not sure it penetrated his skull.

I found out about a week ago that the VP over IT has given my service pack project a high priority with a completion date of no later than the end of July. I've jumped through the hoops with all the stakeholders to get my upgrade scheduled for this Wednesday... I got an email from the idiot that he *promises* the test plan will be complete by COB Thursday.

What kills me too is how kids fresh out of school don't understand the inherit limitations in implementing things in real-life, i.e. why things aren't just perfect. You think I manage 200 Windows XP computers because I want to? No, it's because I have no budget, but we still have to move products out the door & pay people's salaries, so we're stuck where we are for now because you aren't management & you don't call the shots. And yes, you have to work weekends because you can't reboot servers that are in production or running special tasks. Things are complicated. You have to jump through hoops. Unless you work for a place like Tesla where they have the capital & interest of doing things in the most efficient way possible, it's just not going to flow like water. That's half the work of having a job. Learn how to look busy, learn how to play politics so you don't earn yourself a pink slip, learn how to jump through silly hoops because that's what the job & situation requires, and you will be able to keep your job & keep a paycheck coming in every week.

I don't think it's just millennials though, I'm sure this happens every generation. I think part of it is from being naive out of school and part of it simply depends on the work ethic of who you hire. I haven't hired an assistant yet simply because it's more of a headache for me to deal with training & babysitting someone than it is for me to just put in some extra time & effort to make sure things are done the right way. Plus it allows me to manage more complex projects more easily because I become the project manager instead of having to get a whole line of people involved.

I feel for you man.

 

[NuclearNed]

Gotcha. Well for as many entitled and lazy Mil's there are, I work with just as many cranky, stubborn and cynical baby boomers. It's give and take, one just needs to approach things from different angles.

The funny thing is that he thinks he has a great work ethic. We do some hiking together from time to time and have had plenty of long trail conversations, and according to him he's a regular Paul Bunyan.

 

[Eug]

The young millenial trainee we just got is uber keen. Has everything prepared every time we meet, and working with him is a pleasure, even if he's still very, very junior. Yeah, I have to teach a lot, but I don't mind it at all.

In contrast, we also have someone who is very experienced but just doesn't have the same drive. Often comes unprepared and takes a long time finishing stuff that should be very simple for that person, mainly because that person is old school and isn't used to the computer systems we have. I keep having to remind that person that it's not just about knowledge, but to be prepared, and to be able to use the modern tools we have. It's fine to know the final answer to something, but you look like an idiot if you don't know the details and prepared yourself for our meetings and can't work the computer.

If anything in my experience where I work I prefer getting younger graduates who are keen but who you can mold, and who are flexible to learning new techniques, etc. The older ones are set in their ways, and sometimes even take offense to us telling them what to do.

To give an example, for when we meet to discuss our work:

- Young trainee has read all the material and is able to summarize the pertinent points, and has typed up an interim report for my approval. Often the report needs major reworking, but sometimes we can just modify it on the spot, or else that person will spend more time adjusting the report so we can finalize it the next day.

- Experienced person hasn't read all the material but because of experience knows the correct answer, and tells me that verbally. I then ask where the report is and the person says it hasn't been typed yet. Then I'll get a report 2 days later for my perusal. Irritating, because then I have to try to remember what we talked about 2 days earlier when I finally get the report.

 

[Gibsons]

The funny thing is that he thinks he has a great work ethic. We do some hiking together from time to time and have had plenty of long trail conversations, and according to him he's a regular Paul Bunyan.

This is some variation of Dunning-Kruger, I'm sure.

 

[z1ggy]

The funny thing is that he thinks he has a great work ethic. We do some hiking together from time to time and have had plenty of long trail conversations, and according to him he's a regular Paul Bunyan.

Right, but that has nothing to do with his age. My old neighbor thought he was God's gift to the world and always talked himself up. Told me one time he got pulled over on the highway for speeding (alleged he made it up to 180mph.... yeah ok) and the cop was so impressed that he didn't crash and die, he let him off. This guy was late 30s or so, so more of a Gen Xer, but my point is that all sorts of people think they do everything well.

When's the last time you heard of a person openly admitting they are crazy? Most people think they are completely sane and normal.

 

[cabri]

I'm not sure, and I don't really care about how the developers do their business. The real answer is probably something like "because we're cheap"

Spend more on man hours than the tools cost.

The program manager needs to step up and actually manage the project.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Spend more on man hours than the tools cost.

The program manager needs to step up and actually manage the project.

You'd be surprised how many companies are like this when it comes to capital expenses.

 

[cabri]

You'd be surprised how many companies are like this when it comes to capital expenses.

I am fully aware that there are different colors and pots of $$.

They are not allowed to be mixed; even when for the overall good.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I am fully aware that there are different colors and pots of $$.

They are not allowed to be mixed; even when for the overall good.

Yep - "Penny wise and pound foolish" comes to mind.

 

[TheSlamma]

Gotcha. Well for as many entitled and lazy Mil's there are, I work with just as many cranky, stubborn and cynical baby boomers. It's give and take, one just needs to approach things from different angles.

How do you think we GenX'ers feel, stuck in between the "Give me it's mine" Boomers and the entitled Millennials who surveyed saying they are the smartest generation of Americans ever. LMAO.

 

[MarkXIX]

Misplaced blame. Try being a GenX IT guy working in an organization where the average age is 53. Lemme tell you, baby boomers in government service already have a sweet pension locked in and they don't do shit to earn it this late in the game.

THEN, since they're literally old enough to be your parent, they want to treat you like you're a kid on top of it all.

 

[steppinthrax]

How do you think we GenX'ers feel, stuck in between the "Give me it's mine" Boomers and the entitled Millennials who surveyed saying they are the smartest generation of Americans ever. LMAO.

Define smart (IQ, etc...)

Millenials are the smartest generation in America.

Just think my parents if they heard about a new concept/topic/slang etc... They would either....

A. Have to own an encyclopedia
B. Visit the public library

 

[MarkXIX]

How do you think we GenX'ers feel, stuck in between the "Give me it's mine" Boomers and the entitled Millennials who surveyed saying they are the smartest generation of Americans ever. LMAO.

LOL! I didn't see this before I replied, but that's spot on.

 

[K1052]

How do you think we GenX'ers feel, stuck in between the "Give me it's mine" Boomers and the entitled Millennials who surveyed saying they are the smartest generation of Americans ever. LMAO.

Goes a little something like this:

 

[poofyhairguy]

The funny thing is that he thinks he has a great work ethic. We do some hiking together from time to time and have had plenty of long trail conversations, and according to him he's a regular Paul Bunyan.

Wait a minute.....

You spend significant time with this guy OUTSIDE of work, and yet you come here to bitch about the job he is doing?

Why not, oh I don't know, give him the come to Jesus speech in one of these "trail conversations?"

You don't even have to be a jerk about it if that is against some sort of "trail etiquette." Go the whole drinking buddy route, aka "You know I really like you and I wouldn't tell you this unless I liked you, so you got to know there are some people at work who want you fired. And I hate to be the one to tell you, but I like you, so you should know that unless you do _______ they are going to have the ammo to do it and I won't be able to stop them. blah blah your needs blah blah yes I care blah blah."

Sometimes the way to manage the special little snowflake is to make him feel like the world is out to steal his specialness. Once you realize that almost every modern human is living out their own completely awesome biography and what really motivates them is whatever keeps the story interesting then you figure out how to get a point across.

Millennials are easier to manipulate than almost any other generation as they are SOO desperate for "authentic" without the kind sense/experience to know something genuine from a hole in their head. "Getting real" with them and giving them a scapegoat gets you halfway to the behaviours you want out of them.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Define smart (IQ, etc...)

I can drop your ass into the DEEP DEEP woods with a pocket knife and a tarp and you can survive for weeks.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Define smart (IQ, etc...)

Millenials are the smartest generation in America.

Just think my parents if they heard about a new concept/topic/slang etc... They would either....

A. Have to own an encyclopedia
B. Visit the public library

One of the definitions of intelligence is the ability to learn. No one knows everything, and I don't see a problem with them going to the library or reading an encyclopedia to learn something if they're not computer savvy.

 

[nakedfrog]

Define smart (IQ, etc...)

Millenials are the smartest generation in America.

Just think my parents if they heard about a new concept/topic/slang etc... They would either....

A. Have to own an encyclopedia
B. Visit the public library

This is a joke, right? Being able to look it up on Google does not make you smarter.
In fact, I believe I've read that it's having the cumulative effect of making people less intelligent, since they rely on external data sources rather than their own brain. In the same way that owning an encyclopedia doesn't make you smarter in itself, but actually reading it might.

 

[steppinthrax]

I can drop your ass into the DEEP DEEP woods with a pocket knife and a tarp and you can survive for weeks.

LOL

 

[NuclearNed]

Wait a minute.....

You spend significant time with this guy OUTSIDE of work, and yet you come here to bitch about the job he is doing?

Why not, oh I don't know, give him the come to Jesus speech in one of these "trail conversations?"

You don't even have to be a jerk about it if that is against some sort of "trail etiquette." Go the whole drinking buddy route, aka "You know I really like you and I wouldn't tell you this unless I liked you, so you got to know there are some people at work who want you fired. And I hate to be the one to tell you, but I like you, so you should know that unless you do _______ they are going to have the ammo to do it and I won't be able to stop them. blah blah your needs blah blah yes I care blah blah."

Sometimes the way to manage the special little snowflake is to make him feel like the world is out to steal his specialness. Once you realize that almost every modern human is living out their own completely awesome biography and what really motivates them is whatever keeps the story interesting then you figure out how to get a point across.

Millennials are easier to manipulate than almost any other generation as they are SOO desperate for "authentic" without the kind sense/experience to know something genuine from a hole in their head. "Getting real" with them and giving them a scapegoat gets you halfway to the behaviours you want out of them.

I actually think this is great advice, and I've considered doing it many times. I may yet... on a social level, he's a good guy whose company I enjoy. When the right time comes, I'll probably do this.

 

[steppinthrax]

One of the definitions of intelligence is the ability to learn. No one knows everything, and I don't see a problem with them going to the library or reading an encyclopedia to learn something if they're not computer savvy.

I'm speaking mainly to efficiency and variety of material available.

Example, you go to a library in the 70's early 80's you have a very limited set of resources. You have maybe some encyclopedia and/or some dry books on the subject.

The sheer amount of time and effort to query each periodical etc... you need to factor this. In addition not everyone has easy access to a "good" public library etc...

No, I have no problem with someone who has that research ability, however just imagine today you have forums, wiki, video conf, youtube etc... It now only takes a few seconds to obtain the information that you need. If you don't understand it, pick another source.

 

[PricklyPete]

I actually think this is great advice, and I've considered doing it many times. I may yet... on a social level, he's a good guy whose company I enjoy. When the right time comes, I'll probably do this.

Right now seems to be a good time.

 

[steppinthrax]

This is a joke, right? Being able to look it up on Google does not make you smarter.
In fact, I believe I've read that it's having the cumulative effect of making people less intelligent, since they rely on external data sources rather than their own brain. In the same way that owning an encyclopedia doesn't make you smarter in itself, but actually reading it might.

LOL,

SAT allows the use of calculators on exams, calculators are embraced in the classroom. I'm sure when they were small enough to easily purchase and carry educators everywhere indicated how they made people dumber. When slide-rules came out educators probably indicated they made people dumber.

If you want to take that route of thinking, I'm sure if you take a Math major from the 50s and compare it to a Math major from 2015, the 50s Math major is smarter!!!!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm speaking mainly to efficiency and variety of material available.

Example, you go to a library in the 70's early 80's you have a very limited set of resources. You have maybe some encyclopedia and/or some dry books on the subject.

The sheer amount of time and effort to query each periodical etc... you need to factor this. In addition not everyone has easy access to a "good" public library etc...

No, I have no problem with someone who has that research ability, however just imagine today you have forums, wiki, video conf, youtube etc... It now only takes a few seconds to obtain the information that you need. If you don't understand it, pick another source.

Sure, but you'd be surprised how many younger people can't even use Google correctly. My wife has a set of highly educated friends and you would think asking them to find a simple piece of information (for example, what time does restaurant X, Y, and Z open?) is the equivalent of asking them to land men on the moon, not to mention more complicated queries.