YAGunT: Time To Get A Wheelgun...

May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Bitchers and moaners can go here.

I'm looking for a wheelgun to add to my collection. I've always liked revolvers, I've just never had the bug to purchase one when I had the money for it. :p

I want to get something in .357 magnum, with at least a six inch barrel. I was thinking something along the lines of a Ruger GP-100 or a Smith & Wesson 686 Plus.

I've heard that the S&W has the better factory trigger, but the Ruger handles hot loads better and is $150.00 cheaper. I don't really care about the price though, as long as I get a quality product that I like. Any thoughts on these two, or maybe another .357 from a different company?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,009
44,918
136
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p


If you really have to get one, go with the Smith & Wesson. I never cared for Ruger's revolvers myself.

Though, Taurus is supposedly making some good quality ones now.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p


If you really have to get one, go with the Smith & Wesson. I never cared for Ruger's revolvers myself.

Though, Taurus is supposedly making some good quality ones now.

I have a slight phobia of Taurus revolvers. My sister had a .38 Special from them. When she was out firing it one day, the damn thing stuck with the hammer halfway down, and it refused to budge. She got home to her apartment, called a mutual friend that is a gun dealer and enthusiast, and he told her to tape the hammer back or put something under it to keep it from descending until he could get there.

Well, while she made the call, she had stuck it under the couch cushion. She had seen too many television shows wherein a pillow or cushion is used to muffle the sound of a gunshot. It chose to go off, and it blew a hole in the couch. Much to her chagrin, the noise was not terribly muffled. She called the local police station to ask if anyone had reported a gunshot at ****** apartments, and after receiving a confused, "No." from them, she hung up.

Well, the cops showed up, confiscated the gun to run the numbers on it and make sure it wasn't stolen, etc. She got it back later, though I am not sure if she still has that one. I am a little skittish about purchasing a gun from a company that produced such a revolver. :p No doubt they all have done so at one time or another, this is the only one I know of personally though.
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
5,466
0
76
I don't dig on revolvers much, either. Not sure why. Probably the same reason I make fun of my friend's Winchester lever gun.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p


If you really have to get one, go with the Smith & Wesson. I never cared for Ruger's revolvers myself.

Though, Taurus is supposedly making some good quality ones now.

I have a slight phobia of Taurus revolvers. My sister had a .38 Special from them. When she was out firing it one day, the damn thing stuck with the hammer halfway down, and it refused to budge. She got home to her apartment, called a mutual friend that is a gun dealer and enthusiast, and he told her to tape the hammer back or put something under it to keep it from descending until he could get there.

Well, while she made the call, she had stuck it under the couch cushion. She had seen too many television shows wherein a pillow or cushion is used to muffle the sound of a gunshot. It chose to go off, and it blew a hole in the couch. Much to her chagrin, the noise was not terribly muffled. She called the local police station to ask if anyone had reported a gunshot at ****** apartments, and after receiving a confused, "No." from them, she hung up.

Well, the cops showed up, confiscated the gun to run the numbers on it and make sure it wasn't stolen, etc. She got it back later, though I am not sure if she still has that one. I am a little skittish about purchasing a gun from a company that produced such a revolver. :p

I have a Taurus, & like it for what it is, a relatively inexpensive reliable gun, but the insider's joke about Taurus is that "Sure they have a lifetime warranty, but it takes a lifetime for them to repair it."

I also would never buy a Taurus & expect to be able to fire thousands of trouble free rounds as I would Ruger or S&W.
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
5,466
0
76
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Anything but a Smith & Wesson, (my personal opinion & has absolutely nothing to do with S&W's functionality, I'm still pissed that they caved into the Clinton admin)

Just ran across this: James Joseph Minder, chairman of handgun maker Smith & Wesson Holding Corp., resigned after a published report revealed he'd spent as much as 15 years in prison decades ago for armed robberies and a bank heist. As PC as S&W is, they didn't do a criminal background check on the guy?
Doh!!

I think Ruger's politics might be suspect also.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,009
44,918
136
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p


If you really have to get one, go with the Smith & Wesson. I never cared for Ruger's revolvers myself.

Though, Taurus is supposedly making some good quality ones now.

I have a slight phobia of Taurus revolvers. My sister had a .38 Special from them. When she was out firing it one day, the damn thing stuck with the hammer halfway down, and it refused to budge. She got home to her apartment, called a mutual friend that is a gun dealer and enthusiast, and he told her to tape the hammer back or put something under it to keep it from descending until he could get there.

Well, while she made the call, she had stuck it under the couch cushion. She had seen too many television shows wherein a pillow or cushion is used to muffle the sound of a gunshot. It chose to go off, and it blew a hole in the couch. Much to her chagrin, the noise was not terribly muffled. She called the local police station to ask if anyone had reported a gunshot at ****** apartments, and after receiving a confused, "No." from them, she hung up.

Well, the cops showed up, confiscated the gun to run the numbers on it and make sure it wasn't stolen, etc. She got it back later, though I am not sure if she still has that one. I am a little skittish about purchasing a gun from a company that produced such a revolver. :p


I know I shouldn't laugh, but thats funny.:laugh:

I suppose that would make me a little careful with them as well. Their newer models do have a much better rep these days.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Anything but a Smith & Wesson, (my personal opinion & has absolutely nothing to do with S&W's functionality, I'm still pissed that they caved into the Clinton admin)

Just ran across this: James Joseph Minder, chairman of handgun maker Smith & Wesson Holding Corp., resigned after a published report revealed he'd spent as much as 15 years in prison decades ago for armed robberies and a bank heist. As PC as S&W is, they didn't do a criminal background check on the guy?

Colt has caved into the government multiple times, too. Butchering the receivers on their AR-15s so as to make them harder to convert to full-auto. I don't care about the full-auto conversion, but I do care that the new receiver was a piece of sh!t. They also quit, at least temporarily, selling all but their high-end Colt semi-auto pistols to the general public. Stupid move on their part, as most cops weren't buying Colt semi-autos for law enforcement use, and definitely not enough were doing so to keep them afloat financially. I quit following what Colt did after that, and I am unsure what they are up to now.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p

Well, I had already decided to get another one to replace the H&K USP-40 I am going to sell. It is slightly too large for my hands. I am thinking of getting one of Springfield's XD pistols. I have been reading a lot of good things about them from owners and reviewers, and they incorporate some of my favorite features from the Glock, USP, and other guns. Accessory rails, grip safety, trigger safety, and other goodies.

LINKY!

The main complaint I have read from people is the finish tends to wear off. It can be redone by the folks at Springfield, though, or you can get the stainless slide.

Eventually I want to get one of the compact model USP-40s from H&K, just not right now.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,009
44,918
136
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p

Well, I had already decided to get another one to replace the H&K USP-40 I am going to sell. It is slightly too large for my hands. I am thinking of getting one of Springfield's XD pistols. I have been reading a lot of good things about them from owners and reviewers, and they incorporate some of my favorite features from the Glock, USP, and other guns. Accessory rails, grip safety, trigger safety, and other goodies.

LINKY!

The main complaint I have read from people is the finish tends to wear off. It can be redone by the folks at Springfield, though, or you can get the stainless slide.

Eventually I want to get one of the compact model USP-40s from H&K, just not right now.

Good choice.

I have fired an XD a couple times and I like the feel of them, much better than the Glocks IMO (which I just never personally cared for).
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: K1052
What about bitchers and moaners who think you should get a semi-auto?:p

Well, I had already decided to get another one to replace the H&K USP-40 I am going to sell. It is slightly too large for my hands. I am thinking of getting one of Springfield's XD pistols. I have been reading a lot of good things about them from owners and reviewers, and they incorporate some of my favorite features from the Glock, USP, and other guns. Accessory rails, grip safety, trigger safety, and other goodies.

LINKY!

The main complaint I have read from people is the finish tends to wear off. It can be redone by the folks at Springfield, though, or you can get the stainless slide.

Eventually I want to get one of the compact model USP-40s from H&K, just not right now.

Good choice.

I have fired an XD a couple times and I like the feel of them, much better than the Glocks IMO (which I just never personally cared for).

Some long-time Glock fans I have been talking to online like both the trigger and the grip angle better than that of the Glocks.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: K1052

Good choice.

I have fired an XD a couple times and I like the feel of them, much better than the Glocks IMO (which I just never personally cared for).

Yeah, I think the XDs are among the best values on the pistol market (rivaled only by CZ's offerings). They're great for the money, and were an even better value before Springfield acquired the design - IIRC they were made in Croatia and sold as the HS-2000, and they used to sell for $300 or so.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,009
44,918
136
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: K1052

Good choice.

I have fired an XD a couple times and I like the feel of them, much better than the Glocks IMO (which I just never personally cared for).

Yeah, I think the XDs are among the best values on the pistol market (rivaled only by CZ's offerings). They're great for the money, and were an even better value before Springfield acquired the design - IIRC they were made in Croatia and sold as the HS-2000, and they used to sell for $300 or so.

Thats right. I actually stumbled upon a HS-2000 at the local gun shop that handles my FFL 01 transfers.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
LINKY!

The main complaint I have read from people is the finish tends to wear off. It can be redone by the folks at Springfield, though, or you can get the stainless slide.

Eventually I want to get one of the compact model USP-40s from H&K, just not right now.

I saw someone at a gun show who got their pistol boron carbide (HRC=93+) coated. Try and get that to wear off (excluding BC coated parts that are in rubbing contact with other BC coated parts). I dont know if Bodycote is still doing this, though. I heard they were really really busy filling contracts, but that wasnt confirmed, so YMMV.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: Mookow

I saw someone at a gun show who got their pistol boron carbide (HRC=93+) coated. Try and get that to wear off (excluding BC coated parts that are in rubbing contact with other BC coated parts). I dont know if Bodycote is still doing this, though. I heard they were really really busy filling contracts, but that wasnt confirmed, so YMMV.

I think the Tenifer finish is one of the most appealing aspects of Glocks. It's harder and more corrosion-resistant than most stainless steel (though they also have a surface Parkerized finish than can wear off). IIRC, Chuck Taylor, as part of his Glock 17 torture test (I believe the gun well over 200,000 rounds fired through it), buried the pistol in manure and left it chained to a storm buoy in the open ocean for months, with no corrosion. Unfortunately the Tenifer process violates US environmental laws as I recall, so no American manufacturer can use it.

EDIT: Here is Taylor, writing when the gun had fired a "mere" 100,000 rounds:

On four occasions since 1990, I've written articles about a continuing evaluation I've been conducting to ascertain the longevity of the Glock Model 17 9mm pistol. The first of these, appearing in the February, 1993, issue of Combat Handguns, contained my findings as to the weapon's performance and durability after 33.000 rounds fired. At this juncture, I stated:

"I carried it in the rain, snow, dust and mud. I carried it when the temperatures were over 100 degrees and when they were 40 below.

"I presented the gun more than 10.000 times from it's plastic slide holster, speed loaded it 2.000 times, performed over 5.000 tactical loads, shot it weak-handed in excess of 2,500 times and field-stripped it 250 times.

"From the beginning, I resolved to grind it into the dirt, abuse it like no gun I ever had."

"Why? To find out the truth about Glocks, for once and for all...

"And I succeeded in doing just that. In a 30-month period, I fired 33.000 rounds, all factory loads, of every imaginable type made-- and it ate them all, almost without a single malfunction. I say 'almost' because on the 32,994th round, I finally had one-- a failure to feed! And this in spite of the fact that I cleaned the gun every 10.000 rounds whether it need it or not!

"100 rounds short of the 5.000th shot, both factory-provided magazines ceased to hold the slide open after the last shot, although they both continued to function normally otherwise. At round number 11.000 a second set did the same and was replaced by another.

"By the 500th holster presentation, the left side of the front site was so badly worn that a proper site picture was no longer possible. It was subsequently replaced with a steel version.

"By round number 16.000, I could see steel through the finish-- but it never did rust, although it was exposed repeatedly to rain, snow, perspiration and even blood.

"The trigger pull, originally 5.5 pounds, got smoother and a bit lighter, but it never did double or demonstrate a glitch of any kind.

"And after all this, it still shoots into 3 inches at 25 meters, not much different than when it was new."
Impressed, to say the least, I was still determined to see the test though to the point where the gun failed. So, although the piece had passed the 33.000-round mark without significant negative results or breakage, I continued the test.

The months went by and the test continued. By the end of the summer, 1993, the gun had shot 50.000 rounds without a hitch. Among my additional observations published in Glock Autopistols 1995, were these:

"And now, after 50.000 rounds, nothing has really changed. It still:

"Functions reliably. In fact, not a single additional stoppage has occurred.

"Prints inside the 9-ring of a 25-meter pistol target, exactly as it did when it was new.

"Shows no additional finish wear.
"Exhibits no bore corrosion.


"Clearly, the Glock M-17 is a heck of a pistol and, as a survival instrument, is well worthy of our consideration. It is well-designed, well-made and capable of surviving a wide variety of environmental conditions. It will feed the entire spectrum of bullet shapes and functions reliably with virtually all power levels of 9mm ammunition. In addition, it resists corrosion magnificently and its design causes minimal wear on working parts, giving it an unbelievable long service life.
"Ugly? Maybe, maybe not! It depends on what's important to you-- cosmetics, or function. Regardless, it's my opinion that the Glock 17 is not only a winner, but may well be the world's best 9mm pistol. Obviously, only time will tell, but in the meantime, I've got 25.000 more rounds of 9mm ammunition to run through it to find out."


25.000 more
And the test continued. By February, 1995, the 25.000 rounds were expended, bringing the total to an unbelievable 75.000! Yet, the gun was still going strong, showing no indications whatsoever of impending failure. I replaced nothing-- no springs, firing pins, connectors or any other parts. In fact, viewed from the broad perspective, the gun had actually outlived it's magazines-- six two-mag sets at that point.
Truthfully, I had run out of things to do to the gun. Short of running over it with a car or freezing it into a solid block of ice-- both which I regarded as silly, since they fail to mirror real-world conditions and therefore prove nothing-- I had repeatedly exposed the gun to everything. In the July, 1995, issue of Combat Handguns and Summer, 1995, issue of Glockster, I said:


"After more than 70.000 holster presentations, I can detect no additional finish wear from that which appeared by 20.000 presentations.

"The bore is still without corrosion or excessive wear; the piece still shoots inside the 9-ring of a 25-meter pistol target, using the offhand Weaver Stance. In fact, to determine if any deterioration of intrinsic accuracy had occured, I fired it from 35 meters in a Ransom Rest-- the worst groups were 2 inches!

"As an example of its practical accuracy capability, I offer the following. With the test gun, I was able to perform the following:

1. "Reliably get center-hits on a 18 x 30-inch steel silhouette target at 75 meters, knocking down five such silhouettes in under ten seconds.
2. "Take a whitetail deer with a single shot behind the shoulder at a laser-measured 70 meters.

3. "Successfully pass the ASAA Handgun Combat Master test with it, presenting it from concealed carry, shooting a score of at least 383 out of a possible 400."

My other observations at that time included:

"Internal parts exhibited no real wear or deterioration.

"The polycarbonate frame, though it had at one spot worn smooth from holster contact, appeared intact and without discernible deterioration.

"After more than 50.000 speed loads and an equal number of tactical loads, the magazine well was scarred somewhat but still serviceable.

"While the 56,103rd round blew a primer, the gun was undamaged. The resulting stoppage, a Type 3 (Feedway) was quickly cleared and the weapon returned to service.

"The trigger remained at 5.1 pounds, a reduction from it's original poundage of only 0.4 pounds. It was still smooth and had a crisp let-off.

"It was discovered that magazine service life could be dramatically increased by loading only 15, rather than the rated 17, rounds of ammunition. If a 'Plus-Two' floorplate is utilized, then-- and only then-- should a full 17 rounds be loaded. This prevents the follower spring from being fully compressed, thus causing it to soften and finally 'set', as the expression goes.

"The Trijicon (tritium) sights installed early in the test were still completely serviceable."

It looked like the test was over. The pistol had survived an incredible 75.000 rounds and was completely intact. I had my desired data-base-- the Glock M-17 was irrefutably a terrific pistol. In fact, I was so impressed that I concluded my article in Combat Handguns with this statement:

"Pretty, it ain't, especially after all it's been through. On the other hand, beauty is said to be in the eye of the beholder, and to me, the Glock is a tool, not an objet d'art. This being the case, we must view it differently-- function, not aesthetics, is the prime criteria. Viewed from this perspective, there can be no doubt that the Glock M-17 looks mighty good indeed."

Well, I just couldn't leave it alone. My curiosity about just how long the gun could survive continued to be intense. So, from my stores, I broke out an additional 25.000 rounds of assorted 9mm ammo and continued the test.

And now, the fall of 1995, after having fired a total of 100.000 rounds of virtually all kinds of ammunition...

Nothing has changed! The gun looks the same, feels the same, functions the same as it did before. I've done everything within reason to this gun. I've carried it all over the world, quite literally in every environmental condition known to man-- the steaming jungles of Latin America, the windblown deserts of the southwestern U.S., the 40-below zero tundra of Alaska in the winter.

And it worked-- every time. In fact, since I discovered that loading 15, rather than the rated 17, rounds into the magazine prevented the follower spring from softening, I haven't had a single malfunction. Both magazines used in this last 25.000 portion of my test remain strong and completely serviceable. And, by way of confirmation, I replaced the old springs in the magazines that failed during the test with new ones from Glock, and they, too, function perfectly.

I am especially impressed by the lack of apparent finish wear, even after over 100.000 holster presentations. The gun looks exactly as it did at 20.000! I've actually worn out several holsters, finally selecting the M-D Labs "Thunderbolt" (which I codesigned with M-D honcho Kevin McClung) and matching mag carrier as the best. It's super-fast, yet secure and highly concealable, and being made of Kydex, it's by far the toughest rig now in existence.

The magazine well, although slightly scarred from in excess of 100.000 insertions, also remains entirely functional and looks much like it did in the early stages of the test.

Internal parts, too, look the same. I just can't find any discernible signs of deterioration. The piece shoots just as accurately as it did before and functions flawlessly.

So, in conclusion, the Model 17 9mm continues to defy wear, tear, corrosion and...well, me! I've thrown the whole book of tricks at this gun and yet, as this is written, it continues in service. Obviously, the Model 17 is a terrific handgun-- so terrific that I'd quite willingly bet my life on this one, even after all it's been through. What better recommendation can I give, eh?
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
I think the Tenifer finish is one of the most appealing aspects of Glocks. It's harder and more corrosion-resistant than most stainless steel (though they also have a surface Parkerized finish than can wear off). IIRC, Chuck Taylor, as part of his Glock 17 torture test (I believe the gun well over 200,000 rounds fired through it), buried the pistol in manure and left it chained to a storm buoy in the open ocean for months, with no corrosion. Unfortunately the Tenifer process violates US environmental laws as I recall, so no American manufacturer can use it.

I'm not taking away anything from Glocks, but there are only four ways I can think of to remove properly applied BC (that does not include any chemicals that would be extremely harmful to your health):
1.) scratch at it with a diamond
2.) scratch at it with a high-alumina ceramic (this is how I made a small scratch on the finish of my Benchmade 770S)
3.) scratch it with another BC coated object
4.) deform the metal underneath and it will come off over the area that the metal has been deformed.

The fact that the BC coating is only 2 microns thick impresses the hell out of me.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Mookow, I might look into that boron carbide coating, it sounds pretty sweet. :)

As for .357s, the Colt Python used to be decent, but I am not sure how good their modern incarnation is. Anyone used one that was manufactured in the last ten years or so?
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: Mookow

I'm not taking away anything from Glocks, but there are only four ways I can think of to remove properly applied BC (that does not include any chemicals that would be extremely harmful to your health):
1.) scratch at it with a diamond
2.) scratch at it with a high-alumina ceramic (this is how I made a small scratch on the finish of my Benchmade 770S)
3.) scratch it with another BC coated object
4.) deform the metal underneath and it will come off over the area that the metal has been deformed.

The fact that the BC coating is only 2 microns thick impresses the hell out of me.

Yeah, it sounds amazing. I didn't mean to take anything away from it - I just think Tenifer is one of the most appealing aspects of Glocks. I like Glocks generally, but to me their most impressive characteristic is their reliability/durability, even with no maintenance and tons of abuse.