YAGT - Should I buy a "security" shotgun?

[Merad]

Because unlike Hollywood and video games, in real life you still have to aim shotguns. ESPECIALLY for home defense, where there is only an inch or two of spread at close range.

Right... if you can't hit a human sized target at 3-5 yards without using a red dot sight, you're hopeless.

 

[brblx]

if you can't hit a human sized target at 5 yards without ANY sights, you're hopeless.

i would say 18" 870 plus front and rear pistol grips and no stock (or folding). anyone who says it's uncontrollable hasn't fired one. personally i don't want to try and move through my small-ass hallways with a large fixed stock.

I've shot a shotgun with a pistol grip and they aren't nearly as easy to shoot accurately as one with a stock. Hell, I had one on one of my shotguns for a while, I took it off and put the original stock back on it. I'd bet none of you could hit a pumpkin at 15 yards with one shooting from the hip.

this is truthful, but we're talking a human at 15 feet, not a pumpkin at 15 yards. and you don't have to shoot it 'from the hip'.

 

[JulesMaximus]

if you can't hit a human sized target at 5 yards without ANY sights, you're hopeless.

i would say 18" 870 plus front and rear pistol grips and no stock (or folding). anyone who says it's uncontrollable hasn't fired one. personally i don't want to try and move through my small-ass hallways with a large fixed stock.



this is truthful, but we're talking a human at 15 feet, not a pumpkin at 15 yards. and you don't have to shoot it 'from the hip'.

I have, and it's not nearly as easy to control shot placement as one with a regular stock.

Get a fucking handgun if your house is that small.

 

[Howard]

Right... if you can't hit a human sized target at 3-5 yards without using a red dot sight, you're hopeless.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to give yourself as much of an advantage as possible. In high-pressure situations I'm sure a red dot would give you a huge leg up on the assailant.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Get a dog and name it shotgun

You probably won't want one with a super long barrel. It will be hard to swing that thing around corners.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Get a dog and name it shotgun

You probably won't want one with a super long barrel. It will be hard to swing that thing around corners.

Shotguns are way cheaper than dogs.

 

[brblx]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to give yourself as much of an advantage as possible. In high-pressure situations I'm sure a red dot would give you a huge leg up on the assailant.

you're not clearing rooms in a terrorist hideout. if you're remotely competent to use the weapon you're holding, you'll be fine. just point it towards what you want to die. ideally not while they're shooting back. seems like some of you are envisioning too much of a 'firefight' scenario rather than a couple of booms and a call to the cops to get them to drag the corpse away.

I have, and it's not nearly as easy to control shot placement as one with a regular stock.

Get a fucking handgun if your house is that small.

it's certainly not nearly as easy to control a shotgun, or any weapon, with no stock. i don't think i claimed it was. i merely said that a pistol grip can still be a GOOD weapon for home defense, and it doesn't need to be knocked just because people think of it as some kind of worthless thug weapon. an 870 and a set of grips can be had for under 300 bucks or so, it's small enough to lock away somewhere other than a dedicated safe, and it will allow you to maneuver almost as well as with a pistol.

oh, and the front grip both helps with recoil control and allows you to cycle the action faster (or at least it feels like it to me). even without the rear one, i don't see why you wouldn't want a vert grip in the front (and obviously the shortest barrel possible).

i thought the general argument against handguns (generally, not by me) is penetration. but this all depends on ammo, of course. personally, with other people in the house, i'd probably use something a little heavier than your standard bird or target shot (num 4 maybe?). if i was alone, i'd just load up with 00.

also handguns are typically harder to acquire (depending on your definition of 'hard') and one i'd feel confident in would prob cost more than a $200 shotgun that would give me equal confidence.

edit: wish i could find the vid of me empyting six rounds from my buddy's 870. i'm firing about as fast as i can, i'm not aiming with the sights, and even my sorry ass manages to absolutely DESTROY the sillouette we had out at about 15-20 feet. all shots center mass or right in the face- pretty effortlessly, at that. you can tell that by the shiteating grin on my face when i turn around to face the camera.

goddammit, doubleedit- also, 'not aiming with sights' doesn't really mean not aiming at all. i still had both elbows tucked into my torso as if i was cradling something with an invisible stock, and looking down the barrel. again, this is home defense with a shotgun, not marksmanship.

 

[davmat787]

Of course there are options like the Taurus Judge handgun that will fire both .410 shotgun shells and .45 loads. Not too familiar with them but it is an option to be aware of.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Of course there are options like the Taurus Judge handgun that will fire both .410 shotgun shells and .45 loads. Not too familiar with them but it is an option to be aware of.

They say they are weaksauce with buckshot but as long as you stick with .45 it can kill. Just something to be aware of.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Also when with home defence you want to use birdshot. Buckshot goes through walls too easily and birdshot and buckshot are virtually indestingisable at the distance across a room I mean that they will still kill because there isnt enough distance for the pellets to seperate making them both equally powerful against unarmored oponents or exposed faces without the unwanted wall penetration. If your worried about armor penetration a good steel slug should do the trick. Not that the average home burgler could afford body armor. Id just aim for the face and fire repeatedly. If they have armor just keep shooting birdshot and eventually somebody will give up.

 

[davmat787]

They say they are weaksauce with buckshot but as long as you stick with .45 it can kill. Just something to be aware of.

Lame then, as it would be a 5 shot .45 revolver basically.

 

[alkemyst]

I'd suggest you go and fire a few 18" pistol grip shot guns first.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Ninja + gun = gotta be joke

 

[Merad]

If I had a farm or something I might carry the Judge to use on snakes or etc. But I don't.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to give yourself as much of an advantage as possible. In high-pressure situations I'm sure a red dot would give you a huge leg up on the assailant.

In a home defense scenario, my goal is stopping the bad guy, and nothing else. I'm not under any illusions about trying to do headshots or whatever like someone mentioned above. I'm happy to aim and hit center mass, and with a shotgun all you need for that is a glance down the barrel.

 

[Bman123]

The grip is up to you, with 00 buckshot in a hallway you don't need to aim, just get the right choke. 00 buckshot is pretty nasty and in a hallway or close quarters you should only need on shot. I say get a semi auto too, hell with pumping just pull the trigger

 

[robphelan]

Shotguns are way cheaper than dogs.

Whenever I have a contractor come over to the house to bid on some work, I always mention that I have to bring in my German Shepherds before they get there... I want to make sure they know the house is protected.

 

[brblx]

guns are not easily distracted by meat.

 

[davmat787]

guns are not easily distracted by meat.

True, but I could see some fatass distracted by a plate of bacon. D:

 

[Elias824]

If you know how to use the gun and you plan on putting some practice into it then sure go ahead and get it. Just because you played CoD dosent mean you know shit about how to use a gun. I tend to prefer a full stock, a shorter barrel would be better for home defense. Keep in mind that if you shoot 00 Buckshot in your house its easily going to go through your walls maybe even out into the street. If you are worried about the shotgun being to big for your house you may want to consider a handgun with some hollowpoint rounds, though that may be more expensive route to go and it requires a little more skill.

 

[brblx]

i was curious about how hollowpoints perform indoors. i know they generally get stopped pretty cold by wood, but wouldn't they still pass through a lot of other stuff (like two layers of drywall and some insulation)?

 

[Howard]

If I had a farm or something I might carry the Judge to use on snakes or etc. But I don't.



In a home defense scenario, my goal is stopping the bad guy, and nothing else. I'm not under any illusions about trying to do headshots or whatever like someone mentioned above. I'm happy to aim and hit center mass, and with a shotgun all you need for that is a glance down the barrel.

What you said has pretty no relevance to my statements.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Stock all the way.
IMO, pistol grip just doesn't give you the rock-sold body firing position from which to make the highest quality decisions. With a pistol grip you're aiming with your arms, squeezing with your hands, and your arms are ready to move to take up recoil. It's a recipe for muscular confusion where a shot might be let off accidentally at an unexpected sight/sound. With it locked to your shoulder the duties of your arms/hands are much simplified, and everything important is right in your immediate field of view.

That you can fire a pistol grip just fine on the range ain't the point at all, because it ain't about employing the weapon, it's about NOT employing it for ALL circumstances in which it is not called for. And in that I give the edge to the stock.

 

[Merad]

What you said has pretty no relevance to my statements.

Alright, let me put it plainly for you:

The level of aiming necessary for effective home defense with a shotgun is already so trivially simple, the red dot adds no advantage. In fact, I'd say it may actually give you a disadvantage, since you have to worry about maintaining a sight picture to use the optics.

 

[robphelan]

guns are not easily distracted by meat.

good point. but these two dummies couldn't care less about food if a stranger is around.

a few yrs ago, i had someone come in to bid on a sprinkler system. I was outside with him and my dog and everything was fine. I went inside to let the contractor take measurements, Grendel (my big shepherd) started barking at the contractor. He froze in his tracks.

I presume this is because I wasn't around to make everything kosher.

I felt terrible for him because I was bitten by a dog as a pre-teen and I know how ferocious some dogs can seem.

 

[Howard]

Alright, let me put it plainly for you:

The level of aiming necessary for effective home defense with a shotgun is already so trivially simple, the red dot adds no advantage. In fact, I'd say it may actually give you a disadvantage, since you have to worry about maintaining a sight picture to use the optics.

What optics?