YAGT: pr0n and relationships

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: sixone
I don't get the attraction for porn at all, for someone who has sex available regularly. If you want to do it, DO IT. Why watch someone else do something that you've already seen done 14.368 times already? I guess if you're too lazy to use your own imagination, then porn would be attractive to you.

If you think real life is anything like what you see in a porn flick, you need serious help. And if you understand that it isn't, then what's the point? You have an SO or a hand, and an imagination, use it.

I know! It's like, why would anyone go to a comedy club or watch a SciFi movie? They can tell their own jokes and make laser sounds with their mouths! Pew-pew!

Ban entertainment!


(<-- Not a pornography watcher.)

Bad argument. I can't immerese myself in a sci fi flick and making pew-pew sounds with my mouth is not the same thing as comparing the act of sex to watching a porn flick.

I guess if you never really had a good lay, then I suppose that would be the case and I could see where you are coming from.

Talk about a bad argument! You're making some random assumption that watching pornography is not mere passive entertainment, but rather some unwholesome activity that requires that you actively participate in via lewd and indecent acts.

What kind of twisted view do you have to believe that watching porn is always a substitute for, rather than an enhancement to sex? Maybe that's the case when you're 13-16 years old, but many, many often-laid adults still enjoy pornography.

But six was right on one thing - I've been married for almost 10 years now, so it has been a while since I had a "good" lay, I suppose.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: zinfamousStroking the chicken is a medicle necessity. Any religion that tells you otherwise is absolutely, and totally evil.

Hahahahaa funny quote. I'll have to remember those words of wisdom.

fine, but please spell "medical" correctly in the future, as I have clearly failed to do

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
I was about to say the same thing in my post about you. Funny.

You're trying to parallel masturbators with child molestors and rapists. I don't think there's a rolleyes.gif big enough in the world for that one.

What's wrong with Louisiana, except for the horrible school, corrupt government, awful weather, and utter flatness?

So which one of those is responsible for the thought process that lead to the above?

- M4H

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
You're trying to parallel masturbators with child molestors and rapists. I don't think there's a rolleyes.gif big enough in the world for that one.

Yes I would. Very easily. Both are examples of an inability to control sexual desires. So where do you draw the distinction upon which are 'right' and which are 'wrong'. When they hurt someone? Well guess what, that's already happened on both sides.

I'm not saying that masturbation is the cause of these types of actions. As I said before, the attitude that sexual desires should be embraced and not criticized is the problem. Telling someone that if they have a sexual desire, they should fulfill it, is going to give them the idea that such is always the case. How do you justify saying one is okay and the other is not? Again, you can't use "as long as it doesn't hurt someone else", because like I said, this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.

So which one of those is responsible for the thought process that lead to the above?

- M4H

Actually, I'd say the current condition of the entire country. Possibly a father who couldn't control his sexual desires. Friends whose marriage has fallen apart because of pornography. You're welcome to take your pick. I wouldn't blame Louisiana, or my religion, as I don't feel either is responsible for the above three items.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: zinfamous

fair enough. you are one of the few ultra religious people on here that I've come to respect...despite learning of your mormonism

:laugh: Ahhhh, come on now. We're not that bad, are we?

i thought you said your choice to never masturbate had nothing to do with religion.

anyways... i agree with what some posters have said. if you weren't having sex and didn't masturbate periodically you can bet you'd be having wet dreams. this only goes to further the fact that emissions as such are natural and needed for normal body maintenance.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Yes I would. Very easily. Both are examples of an inability to control sexual desires. So where do you draw the distinction upon which are 'right' and which are 'wrong'. When they hurt someone? Well guess what, that's already happened on both sides.

The fact that you still cannot seem to see the difference between a boy alone in his room with a box of Kleenex, and a worthless excuse for a human skin not understanding the word "No" from an innocent child sickens me.

I'm not saying that masturbation is the cause of these types of actions. As I said before, the attitude that sexual desires should be embraced and not criticized is the problem. Telling someone that if they have a sexual desire, they should fulfill it, is going to give them the idea that such is always the case. How do you justify saying one is okay and the other is not? Again, you can't use "as long as it doesn't hurt someone else", because like I said, this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.

Again, please see above re: difference between "boy with Kleenex" and "man with a knife."

Actually, I'd say the current condition of the entire country. Possibly a father who couldn't control his sexual desires. Friends whose marriage has fallen apart because of pornography. You're welcome to take your pick. I wouldn't blame Louisiana, or my religion, as I don't feel either is responsible for the above three items.

Ah, the "Nation is a cesspool" argument. That's always a wonderful straw man to put up.

- M4H

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i thought you said your choice to never masturbate had nothing to do with religion.

I didn't become active in my religion until I was about 18, by which time I had had a fair amount of time to decide whether I agree with masturbation or not. So as I said, religion had nothing to do with it.

anyways... i agree with what some posters have said. if you weren't having sex and didn't masturbate periodically you can bet you'd be having wet dreams. this only goes to further the fact that emissions as such are natural and needed for normal body maintenance.

I'm sure I did. But again you're using the work natural. Tell me, which one is natural. You're body inducing such an event on it's own, or you inducing it due to your own need for pleasure. If you said I only masturbate to avoid wet dreams, you might have a point. In such a case, I would assume that such individuals masturbate only about once every two weeks (speaking from my experience). Now, you present one person who does that for that exact reason and I will concede that you have a valid point. Until then, I would have to still call "bed wetting" natural and masturbation self-gratification.

 

[krunchykrome]

My gf doesn't care that I watch it.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i thought you said your choice to never masturbate had nothing to do with religion.

I didn't become active in my religion until I was about 18, by which time I had had a fair amount of time to decide whether I agree with masturbation or not. So as I said, religion had nothing to do with it.

you weren't raised Mormon?

anyways... i agree with what some posters have said. if you weren't having sex and didn't masturbate periodically you can bet you'd be having wet dreams. this only goes to further the fact that emissions as such are natural and needed for normal body maintenance.

I'm sure I did. But again you're using the work natural. Tell me, which one is natural. You're body inducing such an event on it's own, or you inducing it due to your own need for pleasure. If you said I only masturbate to avoid wet dreams, you might have a point. In such a case, I would assume that such individuals masturbate only about once every two weeks (speaking from my experience). Now, you present one person who does that for that exact reason and I will concede that you have a valid point. Until then, I would have to still call "bed wetting" natural and masturbation self-gratification.[/quote]
why do you have such a hang up over self-gratification? if going on that theory you shouldn't be allowed to ever eat ice cream.

again, we don't agree on this, but i am only trying to understand your basis for this reasoning.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
The fact that you still cannot seem to see the difference between a boy alone in his room with a box of Kleenex, and a worthless excuse for a human skin not understanding the word "No" from an innocent child sickens me.

I understand the difference quite well, as I have stated several times. What you are failing to see is that encouraging someone that they should fulfill their sexual desires can only contribute to such situations.

If everyone was able to control their sexual desires, would such events happen? No. Now tell me, is masturbating an example of controlling your sexual desires? Some may feel it is, I personally don't. I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, and I understand your argument. But personally, I feel I have a pretty valid one myself.

Again, please see above re: difference between "boy with Kleenex" and "man with a knife."

Yes, and again, my point stands.

Ah, the "Nation is a cesspool" argument. That's always a wonderful straw man to put up.

Straw man or not, it's a valid point. I also see that you just tossed the other two valid points aside. Heaven forbid there be an actual logical and legitimate reason someone doesn't agree with you.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
You're trying to parallel masturbators with child molestors and rapists. I don't think there's a rolleyes.gif big enough in the world for that one.

Yes I would. Very easily. Both are examples of an inability to control sexual desires. So where do you draw the distinction upon which are 'right' and which are 'wrong'. When they hurt someone? Well guess what, that's already happened on both sides.

I'm not saying that masturbation is the cause of these types of actions. As I said before, the attitude that sexual desires should be embraced and not criticized is the problem. Telling someone that if they have a sexual desire, they should fulfill it, is going to give them the idea that such is always the case. How do you justify saying one is okay and the other is not? Again, you can't use "as long as it doesn't hurt someone else", because like I said, this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.

So which one of those is responsible for the thought process that lead to the above?

- M4H

Actually, I'd say the current condition of the entire country. Possibly a father who couldn't control his sexual desires. Friends whose marriage has fallen apart because of pornography. You're welcome to take your pick. I wouldn't blame Louisiana, or my religion, as I don't feel either is responsible for the above three items.

wow, just wow. If you can seriously say that masturbation and child molesting have about the same negative consequences you need to have you head examined.

 

[Excelsior]

engineereeyore must be joking.

If not, he needs to jump off a skyscraper with no parachute.

 

[b0mbrman]

Where's the option for "I watch porn because I like boobs and it has nothing to do with whether or not I'm gonna cheat"?

 

[thegimp03]

Every girl is different...some open, some not. All girls know their guy has, one time or another, seen porn. It's part of "growing up" for a male. Whether they want you to continue to watch it while you're with them can go either way. This always comes down to their security/insecurity with their bodies.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Eghck
According to Chris Rock, women want to be responsible/in control of ALL your happiness. Masturbating pisses them off because you're making yourself happy.

Ha ha. That's awesome

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: engineereeyoreActually, I'd say the current condition of the entire country. Possibly a father who couldn't control his sexual desires. Friends whose marriage has fallen apart because of pornography. You're welcome to take your pick. I wouldn't blame Louisiana, or my religion, as I don't feel either is responsible for the above three items.

Considering Mormons think that masturbation and oral sex is a sin and also advocate having large families (original Mormons paired that with polygamy to promote their religion through breeding), I don't find it at all surprising that you find masturbation distasteful or reprehensible. Most likely you were raised Mormon and were taught that from a young age or you joined the church as an adult and found their policies mirrored your own opinions.

In the case of the former, you're only doing what you're told. For the latter, well... a seemingly intelligent adult becoming a Mormon? Now that's just sad.

Why would masturbation be bad but having one's balls blessed at an Endowment Ceremony be fine?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you weren't raised Mormon?

Not really. My mother was mormon, but that's it. The rest of my family was Pentecostal and Southern Baptist. As I was very unfamiliar with Mormon doctrine until I was 18, I say it's a far stretch to say I was raised Mormon.

why do you have such a hang up over self-gratification? if going on that theory you shouldn't be allowed to ever eat ice cream.

again, we don't agree on this, but i am only trying to understand your basis for this reasoning.

Oh that fine. I realize we're just having a pleasant, or at least I consider it pleasant, talk about this.

Consider your eating ice cream example. When is enough enough? Does ice cream ever stop tasting good? I know I've never found bad tasting ice cream (except strawberry, never really liked that). The point is that the body has very natural desires and there are various level at which each should be embrassed. Food is obviously one of them. I'd love to eat steak every night of the week, but I know I can't.

Sexual desires, just like food, I feel need to be constrained. For everything, even sex, there is a time and a season. Our ideals obviously vary on what the time and season are, but simply because something is natural doesn't make it right. I see this need for self-gratification as being a huge problem in many areas, specifically sex, finances, food, drugs, etc.

Credit cards are an awful example, or I should say a perfect example. "I NEED this flat-panel TV. I NEED this new car. I NEED this huge house." We live in a world were people are encouraged to gratify themselves and ignore the consequences. Now will masturbation make anyone go blind? Will it give you masturbation elbow (honestly, I have no idea)? No, for the most part I don't think it's actually going to hurt people very often, unless you're in a relationship. But what is does do is promote the idea that if you want something, you should get it. That, I believe, is where the danger lies.

I know we don't agree, but does that make sense? I'm trying my best to explain it.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Considering Mormons think that masturbation and oral sex is a sin and also advocate having large families (original Mormons paired that with polygamy to promote their religion through breeding), I don't find it at all surprising that you find masturbation distasteful or reprehensible. Most likely you were raised Mormon and were taught that from a young age or you joined the church as an adult and found their policies mirrored your own opinions.

You couldn't be more wrong. Also, Mormons do not believe oral sex is a sin. That is a myth.

In the case of the former, you're only doing what you're told. For the latter, well... a seemingly intelligent adult becoming a Mormon? Now that's just sad.

Why would masturbation be bad but having one's balls blessed at an Endowment Ceremony be fine?

Again, that's just wrong. Seeing as I doubt you've ever been part of an Endowment, you should really stop talking. You look pretty stupid.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: ric1287
wow, just wow. If you can seriously say that masturbation and child molesting have about the same negative consequences you need to have you head examined.

If you had actually read what I wrote, you'd realize I never made such a claim.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
I understand the difference quite well, as I have stated several times. What you are failing to see is that encouraging someone that they should fulfill their sexual desires can only contribute to such situations.

Once again, you equate masturbation and molestation. Let's roleplay - I'm a drunken frat boy who's eying up your sister at a house party. Should I decide to leave her be and go beat off after she leaves, or rape her at knifepoint in a dark alley on her way home? I mean, they're both giving into my desires, right? No difference, right?

If everyone was able to control their sexual desires, would such events happen? No. Now tell me, is masturbating an example of controlling your sexual desires? Some may feel it is, I personally don't. I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, and I understand your argument. But personally, I feel I have a pretty valid one myself.

Like it or not, your body is wired to enjoy sex, and requires a periodic cleaning of the pipes. Ergo, wet dreams if you don't beat off.

Yes, and again, my point stands.

Denied, see above.

Straw man or not, it's a valid point. I also see that you just tossed the other two valid points aside. Heaven forbid there be an actual logical and legitimate reason someone doesn't agree with you.

A straw man by nature is not a valid point. And I tossed aside two perfectly invalid pieces of anecdotal evidence. Maybe if Mommy had put out a little more often and/or hadn't been so uppity about Daddy taking things into his own hands when she didn't, little Junior wouldn't have walked in on him brushing the babysitter's teeth with that pink toothbrush. Ditto for the failed marriages - if masturbation is that much of a (heh) sticking point that it's cause for divorce - GUESS WHAT, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Maybe the two of them should have aired such things in the open before tying the knot, or heaven help us all - had filthy, dirty, heathenistic, wonderful premarital sex.

- M4H

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
engineereeyore must be joking.

If not, he needs to jump off a skyscraper with no parachute.

Nope, not joking. I did jump off a building with a bungee cord. Doesn't that help?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Where's the option for "I watch porn because I like boobs and it has nothing to do with whether or not I'm gonna cheat"?

yes. this is why I haven't voted either.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you weren't raised Mormon?

Not really. My mother was mormon, but that's it. The rest of my family was Pentecostal and Southern Baptist. As I was very unfamiliar with Mormon doctrine until I was 18, I say it's a far stretch to say I was raised Mormon.

why do you have such a hang up over self-gratification? if going on that theory you shouldn't be allowed to ever eat ice cream.

again, we don't agree on this, but i am only trying to understand your basis for this reasoning.

Oh that fine. I realize we're just having a pleasant, or at least I consider it pleasant, talk about this.

Consider your eating ice cream example. When is enough enough? Does ice cream ever stop tasting good? I know I've never found bad tasting ice cream (except strawberry, never really liked that). The point is that the body has very natural desires and there are various level at which each should be embrassed. Food is obviously one of them. I'd love to eat steak every night of the week, but I know I can't.

Sexual desires, just like food, I feel need to be constrained. For everything, even sex, there is a time and a season. Our ideals obviously vary on what the time and season are, but simply because something is natural doesn't make it right. I see this need for self-gratification as being a huge problem in many areas, specifically sex, finances, food, drugs, etc.

Credit cards are an awful example, or I should say a perfect example. "I NEED this flat-panel TV. I NEED this new car. I NEED this huge house." We live in a world were people are encouraged to gratify themselves and ignore the consequences. Now will masturbation make anyone go blind? Will it give you masturbation elbow (honestly, I have no idea)? No, for the most part I don't think it's actually going to hurt people very often, unless you're in a relationship. But what is does do is promote the idea that if you want something, you should get it. That, I believe, is where the danger lies.

I know we don't agree, but does that make sense? I'm trying my best to explain it.

You're trying your best to set up another goddamn straw man argument.

The consumerist society we live in has absolutely jack ****** to do with masturbation, since humanity has been rubbing its genitalia since before recorded history.

- M4H

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Oh that fine. I realize we're just having a pleasant, or at least I consider it pleasant, talk about this.

Consider your eating ice cream example. When is enough enough? Does ice cream ever stop tasting good? I know I've never found bad tasting ice cream (except strawberry, never really liked that). The point is that the body has very natural desires and there are various level at which each should be embrassed. Food is obviously one of them. I'd love to eat steak every night of the week, but I know I can't.

Sexual desires, just like food, I feel need to be constrained. For everything, even sex, there is a time and a season. Our ideals obviously vary on what the time and season are, but simply because something is natural doesn't make it right. I see this need for self-gratification as being a huge problem in many areas, specifically sex, finances, food, drugs, etc.

Credit cards are an awful example, or I should say a perfect example. "I NEED this flat-panel TV. I NEED this new car. I NEED this huge house." We live in a world were people are encouraged to gratify themselves and ignore the consequences. Now will masturbation make anyone go blind? Will it give you masturbation elbow (honestly, I have no idea)? No, for the most part I don't think it's actually going to hurt people very often, unless you're in a relationship. But what is does do is promote the idea that if you want something, you should get it. That, I believe, is where the danger lies.

I know we don't agree, but does that make sense? I'm trying my best to explain it.

Does this imply that you're also for limiting the frequency of sex between married couples?

 

[ryan256]

Originally posted by: sixone
At a comedy club, you're seeing a live show, having a few drinks and some laughs with other people. How you could be a Raptor pilot IRL would be a little more difficult. In other words, you're getting more than you would in front of your TV set.

Porn is a second-rate experience, compared to the real thing.

:thumbsup: