Using the guns for fighting. Most cops, etc. are not good shooters and not very proficient at using weapons. Even well-trained people lose some degree of motor control in stressful situations, due to mental stress, physical exertion / high heart rate, incurred injuries, and sub-optimal platforms for shooting (think wrestling with someone and trying to draw and shoot at the same time). These are reasons to have a high trigger weight at least for first shot; also reasons to not have an external safety. External safety is also generally considered a negative for a concealed carry gun because it's one more thing that can snag. This is why larger organizations generally go for guns which can be carried in double action mode.
Single action and external safety is a combination that enables better trigger pull and accuracy and thus better hits. It is the best choice for the range. For stressful conditions it means accepting some degree of lower reliability and a higher degree of required proficiency than DA/SA (or DAO) would have. You need great trigger discipline, and research shows most people do not have it - cops who think they have never touched the trigger have actually applied 1kg of force to it during a scenario, etc.
I do not agree with you in that decocking a gun without a decocker is "inherently unsafe". (If you had Parkinson's or other reason you can't reliably pinch grip, then you'd probably need a decocker.) A hammer with a good grip surface on the sides, like that on the SP-01 Shadow, takes less concentration than a hammer without. I seriously don't believe I will ever fumble with the decocking.
Also, IPSC Production class competition requires starting in DA mode because the class is intended for service pistols (which, again, are generally DA/SA or DAO) and starting in SA mode would give too much of an advantage for SA capable guns.
HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
adairusmc
Diamond Member
- Jul 24, 2006
- 7,095
- 78
- 91
Right now that would definitely be a FN FNP-45 Tactical, and later spend money on a trijicon RMR to mount on top of it. A friend of mine has this setup, and it is just awesome. Just like this would be the ideal setup, and would work with my existing .45 suppressor -
Spend $500 on an M&P9. Spend another $200 to send it to Apex Tactical for their level 2 service. Another $100 on accessories such as holsters and more magazines. Spend the rest on 9mm and training. Continue posting on every single forum you can find about guns but at least you actually own something now.
EDIT: The above can be replaced with anything in the ~$500-600 range. Including used Sig P226/P229 or CZ's.
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HybridSquirrel
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2005
- 6,161
- 2
- 81
pontifex
Lifer
- Dec 5, 2000
- 43,806
- 46
- 91
Colt Delta Elite 10mm
well right this second at least it changes daily
But for a first gun...id go something in the 600-700 range, then 1k of ammo, holster, other accessories.
IGemini
Platinum Member
- Nov 5, 2010
- 2,473
- 2
- 81
Hmm...probably an HK45. With a threaded barrel if I could swing it.
The FNP-45 looked good for a high-capacity 45, until I felt it in my hands. The grip corners go right into my finger joints. Hopefully the FNX-45 will be a better fit. For a P226 all I'd want is a blued rail version, and those can be had for <$1k.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
You need to go with what feels good to you even if it goes against what "most people" say. Personally I find the CZ 75 a bit chunky even though I've shot pretty good groups with it each time I've tried it, including a couple weeks ago when I got to shoot the CZ-SP01 Tactical. Here's my target - five shots each at 7, 10, 15, and 25 yards.
I had a PM9 on my ccw and have replaced it with a P9 instead. The kahr trigger is definitely different from other dao's. It is really long and constant instead of the traditional "break."
The PM9 was awesome, light and easy to carry. It was TOO small for me though. When drawing, sometimes I'd have a hard time getting a good grip while carrying it IWB with a hybrid holster (see crossbreed minituck, comptac minotaur and similar). The very short slide also made it hard to sometimes get a good grip when racking the slide under dirty/sweaty/frantic situations. Since replaced with the P9, i find it much easier to handle while not giving up much in the concealability department.
irishScott
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2006
- 21,568
- 3
- 0
My brother in law took me to the shooting range today and it was my first time ever shooting a gun. We got there around 1:30 pm, shot for a couple hours, and almost 12 hours later I'm still raving about it.
We shot the two guns he had, which were the Ruger SR22 (.22) and the Glock 22 (.40). Man, what a difference in feel and power and everything between those two calibers. The .40 initially made me kinda nervous lol. It was an absolute perfect day to go shooting and there were barely any other people there. There were enough for me to get the etiquette of the range down, though, which was nice.
So, without further ado, I have some questions for you (this list will grow throughout the thread, I'm sure):
1)My BIL was wondering what gun you recommend in the 9mm category with a budget of $500-700. Any opinions?
2)Another 9mm question from the BIL...he was wondering why there are so many different types of 9mm ammo (he read them all off to me; there are indeed a lot). Are they for specific guns? Can some take more than one type?
3)While we were shooting, i noticed the Ruger .22 seemed to kinda...jam up a lot or something. The Glock didn't jam once. Is there any way to prevent this (why does this happen?)? Kind of annoying.
4)Could you guys please recommend a good starter gun for ME? :awe: Not really sure what caliber/type/whatever is good for a beginner.
Man...wish I hadn't waited so long to get into this. Also, I now want to try every gun lol. It's kinda like getting video game upgrades; this shit is addicting. Wish I could afford a Desert Eagle...those look sweet. Oh yeah...i feel like everyone should be required to shoot a gun to see how unrealistic movies are lol.
THANKS!
I have no idea about the shooting guns dear but one of my friend is taking training in Germany so he had the better idea to explain it which gun is better and how much rupees it will be cost.
RampantAndroid
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2004
- 6,591
- 3
- 81
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
Especially since you can buy Desert Eagles that fire more affordable ammunition, like .357/.44 magnum.
Video games.
It's funny that it is even in so many games, since no military or even police force has ever issued them.
davmat787
Diamond Member
- Nov 30, 2010
- 5,513
- 24
- 76
Meh... IMO only good as a range toy or for carrying as bear protection in the wilds of Alaska. In Alaska, I think most prefer the S&W 500 Magnum as the cartridges are easier to come by and reload.
RampantAndroid
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2004
- 6,591
- 3
- 81
The DE has always been picky when it comes to rounds. You either fire 50AE from it, which it is picky with, or revolver rounds that aren't meant for auto-loaders - look up the info on the 44 auto loader used in Dirty Harry - Eastwood would get so annoyed it at and toss it into the water that they had scuba divers on hand to fetch it, apparently.
.500 S&W Magnum, 44 Rem Mag, and 357 are FAR more known rounds. And for SD guns, I would NEVER carry a gun with questionable reliability. I know most revolvers can be beaten around and still fire reliably. It's why my .41 is loaded at home at all times. I don't want to use a magnum round in defense, but I know it'll fire.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
Anybody looking for their first handgun should really check out this deal: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/sig-sauer-sp2022-pro-9mm.html
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 82,854
- 17,365
- 136
You only need grease on the moving parts, which are roughly the same on a composite gun.
Protect everything else with Militec and forget the excess oils & junk.
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