YAEQ - Reasonable time for a consultant to do a full Exchange 2k install and configuration?

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Yet another Exchange Question -

I've wussed out and folded. I need to call in a consultant to help me install and configure Active Directory, Exchange 2k, and the various components required in addition to the two. Assuming that I have the server with a fresh install of 2k Server, the disks in hand ready to go, and DNS already being hosted and waiting to go, what would be a reasonable number of hours that it would take the guy to do it?

The company that I worked with in the past is quoting me at 24 hours. To me, that seems obscene!. In just my toying around with 2k server and Exchange server, I can load both of them from scratch, on an incredibly slow machine in 3.5 hours. I had a psuedo working version of Exchange operable in under 4. This was with me walking through the Sybex MCSE guides and baby stepping my through.

If I've already got 2k server installed, we're installing on a fast machine, and the guy is familiar with Exchange, then wouldn't 5 hours be pretty reasonable?
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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There are a lot of variables.

Is the 24 hrs a hard cap, or a flat rate? Have you loaded all of the patches and updates? Do they know that there's no data to back up when they get there?

If you were the consultant, would you trust you to have prepared everything perfectly?

Whether it's a good deal or pushing the envelope relates to how the scope of work was written. They may insist on loading the machine from scratch, to make sure it was properly patched...after all, if you screwed up something in the base install that trashed their application load and configuration....YOU should pay for that, right?

Lots of places insist on starting from scratch, so there's no question of who's fault it is if something goes wrong (and also make sure that there's no planted code/trojan horses/backdoors etc in the base load).

It's a situational thing...24 hours might be a pretty nice deal, could be a ripoff, you won't know till the gravitationally-challenged female starts wailing.

Just make sure all that's spelled out up-front, on paper and you receive all of the services and deliverables (as stated on the contract/scope-of-work). If you want to dispute something, do it in a civil fashion, escalate as you need to. If at the end of the process you're still unhappy, tell 'em your business goes elsewhere (and stick to it).

Pretty standard stuff.....

FWIW

Scott
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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24 hours was an estimated time to get it up and running. They have no problems with me doing a base install of 2k server. I would have latest service packs and up to date hotfixes installed.
 

Garion

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2001
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I used to work for a VAR. Assuming you had a fullly ready 2K server, I'd probably want to quote:

2 hours - Server / network / environment review
2 hours, corporate analysis and AD design
2 hours AD and directory implemetnation
4 hours, basic exchange installation and patching
2 hours, connector and MTA configs
2 hours training - Admin, end-user config, etc.
2 hours - Backup and recovery
1 hour - Webmail and remote access setup.

So that's 17 hours. Pad it up a bit, and you're at 24 hours. Granted, my techs would probably get it done in about 10, and we'd look really good coming in well under bid.

Bargain and get them to do it hourly rate, with a not-to-exceed figure of 16 hours, or get details on what the plan on doing for each of the 24 hours. If it doesn't sound right, tell 'em that you need to get some competitive bids from other organizations. Make sure you've got an MCSE doing the work, so they aren't learning on your nickle.

- G
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
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How big a company are we talking about? If it's <100 employees, I think 24 hours is way too much time (especially if your network and active directory are already configured). If it's a larger company, or one without an existing active directory structure, or one which needs to upgrade from Exchange 5.5 or import mail from another location then 24 hours may not be that out of line.

Sure you're not up to it? Is it something you can take your time with in a non-production environment and then go live with once it's tested?

l2c
 

Garion

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2001
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There's two kinds of consultants in this world - The organized consulting company who is going to quote you enough time to make sure they do a good quality job and provide you some documentation up front. Keep in mind that their work has to cover sales time, project management happening behind the scenes, etc. You're going to pay more for this kind of company, but you'll get a better guarantee and usually better quality techs.

The second is the classic "Bob the computer guy" that does independant consulting, maybe full time, maybe part time. He's pretty good, but stumbles a lot and has learned things by messing around with them, not by as much real practice. With this kinda guy, you might get lucky, you might get burned. "Dude, where's your backups?" comes to mind..

There are the occasional "Robert the Independant Computer Consultant" who is well qualified, well trained and provides quality workmanship. He's more likely to ACT like a consulting company in his approach and product, but might not quite charge as much. Robert is a good guy to find, if you can. Separating the Bobs from the Roberts is the challenge, however.

What city are you in? I'll bet that you can get a decent referral on someone that's not going to try to cheat you and do a good job at a reasonable price.

- G
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Garion, the city is Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Consulting here is pretty abysmal. In my evaluation, the company that I'm working with is a cross between an organized consulting company, and the "Robert" that you described. They are quoting me @ $125 an hour. I've shopped around and this is a pretty common rate in this area for a consulting firm of this size.

To answer a couple questions, the max number of accounts that would be done is ~ 45 or so...for now. I'd only need the tech to set up a couple user accounts for me to walk me though. I can handle the rest from there.

What I really liked about this particular company is that they are very cool with actually letting me do the work(if I want) and they are just there to walk me through it. Or, if I just want them to blast through it and show me the importants when they are done, they'll do that too. I sort of look at it as a hands on MS Exchange lesson catered and specifically for my company. If I was to go to one of the Exchange classes that various places offer, I'd probably be looking at at tab of around $1000 or so, and that is a generic Exchange install, not specifically for my business. Other consultants that I've worked with, and had to clean up after, get in do the job at hand, and get out as soon as possible. They don't allow you to ask questions and they leave the door open for them to do more consulting work.

After I've thought about it a little bit, it seems like a decent opportunity to have my exchange server professionally installed, but I'm there learning everything I need to know for the future. I learn very well by example and I would absorb a huge amount of info from this.

My biggest hurdle at this point is trying to explain to my superiors why I'm trying to get approval to spend a couple grand on a consultant to do an exchange install, when they are already paying me :(
 

luv2chill

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Feb 22, 2000
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Will they not give you a quote for an hourly rate? It seems asinine for them to charge you for a 24 hour minimum if you won't even come close to that (which by all accounts sounds like you won't). So the server is already set up with Win2k. Presumably Exchange 2000 is installed and schema updated, you only want them to set up a few users with you watching so you can do the rest.

The only other tasks (that I can think of) would be connecting it into any other e-mail gateways or setting up an MX record on your DNS server so that incoming mail for your domain starts arriving at the server. Outlook web access is another issue altogether, but my sincere recommendation is that you don't use it because it depends so heavily on IIS and IIS is far from secure.

I think you should ask them to give you an hourly rate and if 24 hours is an estimate that's fine... but you'll be there looking on and you can see if they're actually going to need that much time. Just stop them and take it from there when you feel comfortable.

l2c
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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The 24 hours was just an estimate. I will only be billed for the time that it takes. Sorry for the confusion. I just was shocked that they figured it would take 24 hours.

As for DNS and mail records, I'm actually going to be having my ISP run my DNS for me, and then just point things my way. I'm aware of the risks involved with OWA, but it is one of the biggest reasons that my company is interested.
 

Garion

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2001
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Whatever you do, get a clear expectation (in writing) of what you expect them to do. Also, make sure you get them to give you a bid with time and materials (T&M) rates, with a Not To Exceed (NTE) of 24 hours. That way, you won't ever get charged more than 24 hours, no matter how much they have to work to get it done. IF they come in less, then you're golden and don't pay the full 24 hours.

- G
 

Woodie

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Mar 27, 2001
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Well, you said Install and Configure AD and Exchange 2000.

AD installation took us > 3 months. The issues are not the install, but all the decision-making behind AD structures, OU trees, etc...We're also >20,000 employees. AD has significant impact on the clients, on how they log in, etc...

Exchange is still only in pilot, and we've been working on that for over a year. Exchange 2000 has SP requirements for the OS, AD Schema extensions and modifications, etc... With your single server setup, it'll be much easier/faster than ours. We also doubled the initial staff assigned to the Exchange project, which should hint at the number of "issues" we've run in to. Exchange also affects the clients, what software they have loaded, how they get the software, and how they work.

Both products have network implications (particularly DNS), but it sounds as if you're ready for that part of it.

Good luck!