YACT: The Cost of Supercars

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Why are super sports cars so expensive? For the price of a Lamborghini, you can get 20 economy cars, 10 sport compacts, or 5 pretty good luxury cars. Somehow I don't think it's entirely based on supply and demand. There's got to be something else to it.

I'm not asking for general things such as "quality" or "name recognition," but I want something more specific. For instance, a good example of why they're so expensive could be that 12-cylinder motors have three times the cylinders (and therefore three times the valves, cranks, valvesprings, etc.) as four-cylinder motors. Another reason could be the wanton use of exotic materials.

I don't know. It still doesn't quite add up to me.

Ferraris et al are made in very small volumes which drives costs and makes demand fairly elastic meaning that raising the price will not necessarily effect demand.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
prove me wrong that the Z06 (sorry i forgot those 3 letters) will not outhandle most any Ferrari

the LS7's redline is like 8k or something i forget.

Z06 beats an Enzo? Ahahahaha. You should be a comedian.

And don't get me started on the FXX.

Ferrari F430
Curb Weight: 3197 lbs
Number of Cylinders: 8
Engine Size: 4.3 liters
Horsepower: 483 hp
Max Horsepower: 8500 rpm
Torque: 343 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 5250 rpm Drive Type: RWD

11 mpg / 16 mpg

Corvette Z06
Curb Weight: 3132 lbs
Number of Cylinders: 8
Engine Size: 7 liters
Horsepower: 505 hp
Max Horsepower: 6300 rpm
Torque: 470 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4800 rpm

16 mpg / 26 mpg

Lets see here.
Corvette has 22 more HP, 130 more torque. It is a larger displacement engine, BUT it has better fuel economy. So tell me which one is really more advanced??? The smaller engine that consumes more fuel and produces less power, or the OMGMULLETT!!!!!!!!PUSHROD?

AND the Vette is lighter.


Oh, and you don't have to drive the Corvette like a honda to get any power out of it like you do the Ferrari.

 

[chuckywang]

I am more interested in what kinds of services these exotic car dealers offer.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Z06 (Car and Driver, 12/05):
0-60: 3.4
0-100: 7.8
1/4 mile: 11.8@125MPH
Top speed: 198MPH

F430 (Car and Driver, 1/05):
0-60 3.5
0-100 7.9
1/4-mile 11.7@123
top speed 186

Although I'm sure the F430 can out handle the Corvette, and the Corvette can out daily driver the F430, in a straight line they're within a margin of error.

A bit of trivia:
Car and Driver put a line asking for a Ferrari owner to please take part in thier One Lap of America event, which entails driving to many tracks and doing hot laps in a short period of time. Although many makes are regularly represented, including Lamborghini, BMW, Porche, Maserati, and DeThomoso, no Ferraris have taken part.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Z06 (Car and Driver, 12/05):
0-60: 3.4
0-100: 7.8
1/4 mile: 11.8@125MPH
Top speed: 198MPH

F430 (Car and Driver, 1/05):
0-60 3.5
0-100 7.9
1/4-mile 11.7@123
top speed 186

Although I'm sure the F430 can out handle the Corvette, and the Corvette can out daily driver the F430, in a straight line they're within a margin of error.

A bit of trivia:
Car and Driver put a line asking for a Ferrari owner to please take part in thier One Lap of America event, which entails driving to many tracks and doing hot laps in a short period of time. Although many makes are regularly represented, including Lamborghini, BMW, Porche, Maserati, and DeThomoso, no Ferraris have taken part.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/

nice

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Z06 (Car and Driver, 12/05):
0-60: 3.4
0-100: 7.8
1/4 mile: 11.8@125MPH
Top speed: 198MPH

F430 (Car and Driver, 1/05):
0-60 3.5
0-100 7.9
1/4-mile 11.7@123
top speed 186

Although I'm sure the F430 can out handle the Corvette, and the Corvette can out daily driver the F430, in a straight line they're within a margin of error.

A bit of trivia:
Car and Driver put a line asking for a Ferrari owner to please take part in thier One Lap of America event, which entails driving to many tracks and doing hot laps in a short period of time. Although many makes are regularly represented, including Lamborghini, BMW, Porche, Maserati, and DeThomoso, no Ferraris have taken part.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/

nice

So the Z06 can barely out perform one Ferrari model, big deal.

What about the 575, 612, or the Enzo? I didn't think so.

That is hardly what could be considered "almost every."

 

[SpedeRacer]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
With high end cars you get top notch service. Ever been to a Ferrari dealer? It's nicer than your house. Nothing like a typical dealer.

I went to a dealer and they didn't even acknowledge my presence. Too bad for them, I would've purchased 10 Ferraris.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: SpedeRacer
I went to a dealer and they didn't even acknowledge my presence. Too bad for them, I would've purchased 10 Ferraris.

How old are you? That is most likely reason. It seams every other person on AT is still in school.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Z06 (Car and Driver, 12/05):
0-60: 3.4
0-100: 7.8
1/4 mile: 11.8@125MPH
Top speed: 198MPH

F430 (Car and Driver, 1/05):
0-60 3.5
0-100 7.9
1/4-mile 11.7@123
top speed 186

Although I'm sure the F430 can out handle the Corvette, and the Corvette can out daily driver the F430, in a straight line they're within a margin of error.

A bit of trivia:
Car and Driver put a line asking for a Ferrari owner to please take part in thier One Lap of America event, which entails driving to many tracks and doing hot laps in a short period of time. Although many makes are regularly represented, including Lamborghini, BMW, Porche, Maserati, and DeThomoso, no Ferraris have taken part.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/

nice

So the Z06 can barely out perform one Ferrari model, big deal.

What about the 575, 612, or the Enzo? I didn't think so.

That is hardly what could be considered "almost every."

http://www.supercars.net/Comp?sourceLis...3175-1934-2501-3045-2685-595-2675-3075

look at that, i have yet to look at it so i have no bias on that list as i dont know what out performs what

arg, there isnt much data there grr

Enzo:
Performance
0-60 mph 3.65 seconds.
Top Speed 217 mph | 349.2 km/h

the F430 i thought was the TOP of the line ferrari in terms of performance, unless the FXX is.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
http://www.supercars.net/Comp?sourceLis...3175-1934-2501-3045-2685-595-2675-3075

look at that, i have yet to look at it so i have no bias on that list as i dont know what out performs what

arg, there isnt much data there grr

It doesn't give much information about performance.

 

[SpedeRacer]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: SpedeRacer
I went to a dealer and they didn't even acknowledge my presence. Too bad for them, I would've purchased 10 Ferraris.

How old are you? That is most likely reason. It seams every other person on AT is still in school.

I was 18 then and with two of my idiot friends. Hey, my parents could've been filthy rich.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: SpedeRacer
I was 18 then and with two of my idiot friends. Hey, my parents could've been filthy rich.

There you go. I doubt you would have even gotten a salemen's attention at a Kia dealership.

But in all truth, when you come with a friend, especially more than one friend, that is almost a sure sign that you're window shopping.

No one brings their gawking friends when buying a car, especially a nice one.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: SpedeRacer
I was 18 then and with two of my idiot friends. Hey, my parents could've been filthy rich.

There you go. I doubt you would have even gotten a salemen's attention at a Kia dealership.

But in all truth, when you come with a friend, especially more than one friend, that is almost a sure sign that you're window shopping.

No one brings their gawking friends when buying a car, especially a nice one.

ive walked into NUMEROUS show rooms, from Hyundai, to BMW and always gotten the attention of atleast one salesman.

 

[SpedeRacer]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: SpedeRacer
I was 18 then and with two of my idiot friends. Hey, my parents could've been filthy rich.

There you go. I doubt you would have even gotten a salemen's attention at a Kia dealership.

But in all truth, when you come with a friend, especially more than one friend, that is almost a sure sign that you're window shopping.

No one brings their gawking friends when buying a car, especially a nice one.

Dang itttt...why do asians have to be so hairless

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
ive walked into NUMEROUS show rooms, from Hyundai, to BMW and always gotten the attention of atleast one salesman.

Big difference from a BMW to a Ferrari dealership.

And how old are you?

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
Why are super sports cars so expensive? For the price of a Lamborghini, you can get 20 economy cars, 10 sport compacts, or 5 pretty good luxury cars. Somehow I don't think it's entirely based on supply and demand. There's got to be something else to it.

I'm not asking for general things such as "quality" or "name recognition," but I want something more specific. For instance, a good example of why they're so expensive could be that 12-cylinder motors have three times the cylinders (and therefore three times the valves, cranks, valvesprings, etc.) as four-cylinder motors. Another reason could be the wanton use of exotic materials.

I don't know. It still doesn't quite add up to me.

That right there tells me that you will never understand and I shouldn't bother.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/specs.html

Needs another 500HP.

HP means nothing, it's all about the torque.

WRONG. Gearing can make up the difference.

Let's take an example:

Motor 1 makes 100 ft-lb at 3200 rpm.
Motor 2 makes 300 ft-lb at 1000 rpm.

(These are low numbers, I know, but it's to make my point in very practical terms, such as those with economy cars.)

If you change the gearing so that the wheels are spinning at 4000 rpm in both motors, assuming no drivetrain losses, you're putting 80 ft-lb on the wheels with motor 1 spinning at 3200 rpm, yet motor 2 is putting 75 ft-lb on the wheels spinning at 1000 rpm. This is why people talk about HORSEPOWER. It takes into account that power at a higher rpm is more useable for making the car actually GO.

It's all about GEARING.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
What would stop someone from making a great car cheaply? It doesn't add up to me. There must be high profit margins in the industry.

That has been tried and the best results so far have been the Chevy Corvette. Over 500hp and only costs abnout $60k.

But ofcourse the compromise is that the interior is crap. Cheap leather and interior detailing. Crappy interior technology that is identical to what is found is all other GM models. The outside and engine parts are also of inferior quality and also identical to other GM cars.

the LS6/LS2 is an inferior engine???? what the HELL are you smoking?

have you ever sat in the new Vette? i have, i havent played with it like i did the tahoe, but its an extreme improvement. its not the best stuff ive ever seen, but its a nice interior. there is such a thing as interior technology??? and yet again, there isnt much shared on the interior of the vette that is in other GM vehicles (not sure on radio, i dont remember it much).

all you have and all you ever will be is a poster of misinformation.

LS7 is the god of modern American production street motors
(but then there's always the 572 hotrod motor)

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: jagec
Yeah, you can talk about how much more components cost on supercars because of exotic materials, hours of engineering, and the additional stress they'll support, but ultimately, the most expensive "component" is that Ferrari nameplate

QFT

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
the LS6/LS2 is an inferior engine???? what the HELL are you smoking?

have you ever sat in the new Vette? i have, i havent played with it like i did the tahoe, but its an extreme improvement. its not the best stuff ive ever seen, but its a nice interior. there is such a thing as interior technology??? and yet again, there isnt much shared on the interior of the vette that is in other GM vehicles (not sure on radio, i dont remember it much).

all you have and all you ever will be is a poster of misinformation.

The LS6/LS2 is inferior to the Ferrari in terms of quality. Don't judge it solely by performance.

Yes I have sat in a new Corvette, they are just a mash up of different crap GM parts.

When I speak of interior technology I'm speak of transmission options, electronics (Navigation, stereo, etc).

The leather in the Corvette is cheap compared to a Ferrari.

Have you ever sat in a new Ferrari? There is a "feel" about everything in it that screams quality. You can knock on some things in a Corvette and they feel hollow and plastic. Nothing like that in a Ferrari.

a supercar is NOT about its interior quality, a supercar should be a trackcar, i know you can argue that the only reason the Ferrari is a Ferrari is because its interior is top notch etc.

i never said the Corvette which costs 48K base, should have an interior comparable to a vehicle that costs 220K base (yea, fair comparison) The corvette beats almost every single Ferrari in terms of sheer power, speed, and track ability.

i would like to know why you say the LS2/LS6 engines are worse than the Ferraris which require more maintnence than a prostitute, and are much much less reliable than the bullet proof GM small blocks.

GM LS7 > Ford 4.6L > GM LS6 > Ford 5.0L, but that's just me

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Mill
Same reason Hermes can charge 400 dollars for a 5 dollar bag. Or that Gucci can charge 1000 dollars for 20 dollar leather slippers.

Stupid People and their money are eaisly parted

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
the LS6/LS2 is an inferior engine???? what the HELL are you smoking?

have you ever sat in the new Vette? i have, i havent played with it like i did the tahoe, but its an extreme improvement. its not the best stuff ive ever seen, but its a nice interior. there is such a thing as interior technology??? and yet again, there isnt much shared on the interior of the vette that is in other GM vehicles (not sure on radio, i dont remember it much).

all you have and all you ever will be is a poster of misinformation.

The LS6/LS2 is inferior to the Ferrari in terms of quality. Don't judge it solely by performance.

Yes I have sat in a new Corvette, they are just a mash up of different crap GM parts.

When I speak of interior technology I'm speak of transmission options, electronics (Navigation, stereo, etc).

The leather in the Corvette is cheap compared to a Ferrari.

Have you ever sat in a new Ferrari? There is a "feel" about everything in it that screams quality. You can knock on some things in a Corvette and they feel hollow and plastic. Nothing like that in a Ferrari.

a supercar is NOT about its interior quality, a supercar should be a trackcar, i know you can argue that the only reason the Ferrari is a Ferrari is because its interior is top notch etc.

i never said the Corvette which costs 48K base, should have an interior comparable to a vehicle that costs 220K base (yea, fair comparison) The corvette beats almost every single Ferrari in terms of sheer power, speed, and track ability.

i would like to know why you say the LS2/LS6 engines are worse than the Ferraris which require more maintnence than a prostitute, and are much much less reliable than the bullet proof GM small blocks.

True.

As someone that has worked on both Corvettes and Ferraris, I can say the Corvette has always had a better engine. Less maintaince and last longer.

I could have gotten a older Ferrari if I wanted but at the end of the day I know I will be the one buying parts and having to repair it. So with that said, when I look in the garage, I see a Pewter Corvette.

Can you get 9K RPM out of a Corvette engine?

You don't have to. It's all about torque to the wheels. If your engine puts out enough horsepower at its lower rpm range, with the proper gearing, to not require high rpms, then go for it. Motors that are tuned to the low end almost always last longer. High rpms put a lot of stress on just about every moving part in an engine.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: freebee

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: chuckywang
Does that mean if I go into a Ferrari dealer to buy a Ferrari, they would order a pizza for me if I wanted one?

They offer free drinks at most Lexus dealers.

At many Ferrari dealers they do offer food and other frills.

And yes if you bought a Ferrari they would order you a pizza.

If you wrote out the check and asked them to physically pick you up and carry you to your new Ferrari they probably would.

So how is that good Ferrari service? If you walked into a Toyota dealership and gave them a 20k comission, in addition to food and frills, you'd probably get a piggyback ride and a blow job.

LMAO! They'd probably even swallow!

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: freebee
So how is that good Ferrari service? If you walked into a Toyota dealership and gave them a 20k comission, in addition to food and frills, you'd probably get a piggyback ride and a blow job.

You have to have been in a exotic car dealership to understand the quality of service. Obviously you have not.

Are you some kind of neocon yuppee who's trying to tell us what it's like on the other side? Oh, please tell us broke peoples, masta sir! We's only po, ya know.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
prove me wrong that the Z06 (sorry i forgot those 3 letters) will not outhandle most any Ferrari

the LS7's redline is like 8k or something i forget.

Z06 beats an Enzo? Ahahahaha. You should be a comedian.

And don't get me started on the FXX.

Ferrari F430
Curb Weight: 3197 lbs
Number of Cylinders: 8
Engine Size: 4.3 liters
Horsepower: 483 hp
Max Horsepower: 8500 rpm
Torque: 343 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 5250 rpm Drive Type: RWD

11 mpg / 16 mpg

Corvette Z06
Curb Weight: 3132 lbs
Number of Cylinders: 8
Engine Size: 7 liters
Horsepower: 505 hp
Max Horsepower: 6300 rpm
Torque: 470 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4800 rpm

16 mpg / 26 mpg

Lets see here.
Corvette has 22 more HP, 130 more torque. It is a larger displacement engine, BUT it has better fuel economy. So tell me which one is really more advanced??? The smaller engine that consumes more fuel and produces less power, or the OMGMULLETT!!!!!!!!PUSHROD?

AND the Vette is lighter.


Oh, and you don't have to drive the Corvette like a honda to get any power out of it like you do the Ferrari.

You should be a Corvette salesman, or at least someone should share this to someone who wants to sell them. Those are some good numbers, and if I was in the market, I wouldn't consider the Ferrari for an instant.